Tekken 8 Post-Release Discussion Thread

[LEGEND]

Yeah, Kabal’s zoning in MK9 was extremely good. His zoning is one of the reasons he could completely dictate the pace of the match. Sure, he’s not going to only be chucking his iaFB’s and ground saw, but trying to find ways around those were hard enough. Then you had to worry about all of his other tools, which in turn made his zoning even stronger.

He definitely was a top 3 zoner in MK9 imo @LEGEND

I don't think any of us have an incorrect view exactly. Also, most people kinda sucked back then and trust that I've played some of the best Kabals and zoning was the least of my concern.

Kabal probably IS the 3rd best zoner, but a big step down from Freddy and Kenshi. But also my other statement about his zoning not even being in the top 5 reasons why he's good is still true imo.

Also idk why dictating the pace of a match is mentioned. Quan dictates the pace of most matchups in MK1 but he's still dog shit. It's an irrelevant talking point.
-
This whole tangent was to say that Kabal isn't broken because of his zoning, and it's a way overblown factor in why he's so busted. Flash parry and his block infinite are so completely fucked. Safe little mix into run away, easy toasty boost combos, great wake-up options, you could make his fireball go less than half screen and knock down on hit and he'd still be the best character in the game.

____

On topic:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1913017844985680187

 

[Juggs]

I don't think any of us have an incorrect view exactly. Also, most people kinda sucked back then and trust that I've played some of the best Kabals and zoning was the least of my concern.

Kabal probably IS the 3rd best zoner, but a big step down from Freddy and Kenshi. But also my other statement about his zoning not even being in the top 5 reasons why he's good is still true imo.

Also idk why dictating the pace of a match is mentioned. Quan dictates the pace of most matchups in MK1 but he's still dog shit. It's an irrelevant talking point.
-
This whole tangent was to say that Kabal isn't broken because of his zoning, and it's a way overblown factor in why he's so busted. Flash parry and his block infinite are so completely fucked. Safe little mix into run away, easy toasty boost combos, great wake-up options, you could make his fireball go less than half screen and knock down on hit and he'd still be the best character in the game.

____

On topic:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1913017844985680187

Personally, I’d say his zoning IS one of the “top 5 reasons that he’s good”.

But, we could probably talk about this for awhile, and this isn’t the place to discuss MK9 or Kabal, so I’ll just leave it at that.

————————————

It’s always nice to see devs not only listening to the community and taking all the feedback into consideration, but also actually publicly communicating. To me, I feel like this is something that should be standard, especially when it’s games with a multiplayer component. There’s so many things that are hard to test with the limited number of testers. Whereas it’s a lot easier when you have thousands of people testing it and offering feedback. This is why I suggested a unique approach for NRS in the future with a beta that’d last 2 months or so, but that’s again, another discussion entirely.

Anyway, it genuinely is awesome to see ANY gaming company being willing to admit when they were wrong as well as working hard to remedy their mistakes. It’s infinitely better than them ignoring their community, doubling down, or claiming that the players “just don’t understand”. So yeah, this is great to see

 

[Eddy Wang]

Well, I hope that you are gravely mistaken. LOL.

I do not want another patch that consists of 100% nerfs.

I labbed this "emergency patch" for like two minutes. There is nothing to do.

After season two, I expected to play Mortal Kombat 1 very little, yet here I am in Kombat League enjoying Kung Lao/Sektor.

If the angry mob ruins a fighting game with nerfs, please let it be one at least.

What are you smoking?
While not 100% accurate, being able to finally play tekken without the absurdity of plus a milion on block into mixups feels like a tekken game again.
There is a may patch that will come and will nerf even more characters.
This is tekken, it's supposed to have counterplays not free guaranteed 50-50 mixups.

Overall they were good changes, specially the heat engagers going down from +17 to +9, before you could tell with your eyes closed what the mixup would be and not being able to do anything about.

Now, if you don't really want to deal with the bs, just heat burst, or try something else if they're going for double digit moves that lead to round ending situations.

The game takes longer now and combos do way less damage, you have options and you can choose, if you take the match in the air, you will get the life lead for sure, but you will also leave recoverable health, if you take the match on the poking side, you do permanent damage and they can't recover from that.

Not to derail any further, but Kabal isn't winning any matches off zoning. It's nowhere near the level of the things I listed, and more. His zoning is useful, but imo probably not in the top 5 reasons why he's good.

Obviously yeah, fun is subjective. Somewhere along the years more and more people stopped being able to mentally handle zoning which sucks. And considering the NRS community is casual up to the top competitive players, of course zoning is always a meme/complained about. No Matter how effective it is at a high level.

I just read this and just couldn't ignore, feel free to takeup to a new thread about Kabal if you will, but kabal was the best character in the game overall because he was good at the key aspects of the game
Zoning - He could literally run and IaGB all day, and if a character managed to pass that barrier by the time they did, Kabal already had meter to break away from combos, Every character Kabal couldn't defeat by rushdown he could zone, there is a reason why Kabal + Rooftop day was a thing back then.

Rushdown - Most characters couldn't even poke out of his pressure, F32~NDC cancel was +2 on block, in a game where the most common jab startup was 12frames, above average were 10frames, Kabal had a 8 frame jab with 2NDC what was literally a block infinite

On top of it, he had a combination string where he could come out of NDC with 4~Normal Saw and be at -14 with pushback and was far enough for no character in the game had the reach to even punish him, aside from Skarlet's F4

Dude could flash parry big moves and net big combos, while he indeed took skill, a person bonded with Kabal was a menance

 

[Amplified$hotz]

The game might already be dead tbh. So this patch can only fix it.

Matchmaking is really bad. Most streamers are just running into the same players every match.

Im in purple ranks (the most populated ran) and it still takes me time to find a match

 

[LEGEND]

Zoning - He could literally run and IaGB all day, and if a character managed to pass that barrier by the time they did, Kabal already had meter to break away from combos, Every character Kabal couldn't defeat by rushdown he could zone, there is a reason why Kabal + Rooftop day was a thing back then.

I think this misconception is exactly why I responded in the first place, if Kabal is building more than a bar of meter on you before he has to take a risk in order to continue zoning then I'm sorry, you suck, it's not Kabal. But obviously the fact that he can do that much at least, is extremely good.

To push zoning further down the list of why Kabal is good, he's one of the better characters at punishing D1s. That factor is surely more important.

Idk why you rehashed other things I'm not arguing. I don't think you read my post clearly.

 

[Vulgar]

I think this misconception is exactly why I responded in the first place, if Kabal is building more than a bar of meter on you before he has to take a risk in order to continue zoning then I'm sorry, you suck, it's not Kabal. But obviously the fact that he can do that much at least, is extremely good.

To push zoning further down the list of why Kabal is good, he's one of the better characters at punishing D1s. That factor is surely more important.

Idk why you rehashed other things I'm not arguing. I don't think you read my post clearly.

Being able to build a bar of meter like that in a game with a first hit bonus and meter build on blocked hits is a pretty big deal.

Also, apparently the best MK9 players in the world when the game was active, "sucked."

Legend, tho. That guy? Solid. My pick 2025 MK9 EVO Champ for sure! ;-)

 

[LEGEND]

Being able to build a bar of meter like that in a game with a first hit bonus and meter build on blocked hits is a pretty big deal.

Also, apparently the best MK9 players in the world when the game was active, "sucked."

Legend, tho. That guy? Solid. My pick 2025 MK9 EVO Champ for sure! ;-)

You guys are being ridiculous. I'm just saying it's not his strongest feature. I'd argue further but none of you are grasping the first point so I'll digress.

Look at matches of top Kabals at the end of the games life, zoning was not his defining strength. And yes I am speaking as a competitor, not a casual viewer or someone that never had to deal with it in an offline environment.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I don't think any of us have an incorrect view exactly.

Was reading through the convo, and this is the way I saw it. Everyone is right.

Is it something you have to consider? Yes. Does it help control the pace of the match and constrict your movement? Yes. Would it be that great without the rest of his oppressive offense? No, unlike Kenshi and Freddy where the zoning is strong enough to be their primary way of doing damage.

 

[Vulgar]

You guys are being ridiculous. I'm just saying it's not his strongest feature. I'd argue further but none of you are grasping the first point so I'll digress.

Look at matches of top Kabals at the end of the games life, zoning was not his defining strength. And yes I am speaking as a competitor, not a casual viewer or someone that never had to deal with it in an offline environment.

No one said it was his strongest feature.

I said both his zoning and his offense was good.

You were a competitor?

Cool, how many Major Top 8s you got? Genuinely curious.

 

[Juggs]

No one said it was his strongest feature.

I said both his zoning and his offense was good.

Exactly this. The fact that he had strong zoning at all was wild considering everything else he had. But that zoning was a lot more impactful than some seem to think precisely because of all the other tools that he had.

Anyway, like I said, we could talk about this for awhile, and it’d probably be a fun discussion. But this isn’t really the place for it. Someone feel free to make some sort of “MK9 in retrospect” discussion thread.

 

[LEGEND]

Was reading through the convo, and this is the way I saw it. Everyone is right.

Is it something you have to consider? Yes. Does it help control the pace of the match and constrict your movement? Yes. Would it be that great without the rest of his oppressive offense? No, unlike Kenshi and Freddy where the zoning is strong enough to be their primary way of doing damage.

Pretty much

No one said it was his strongest feature.

I said both his zoning and his offense was good.

You were a competitor?

Cool, how many Major Top 8s you got? Genuinely curious.

At least 1, not like anyone would count others since they were west Coast events.

Never said I was great.

Idk why you are arguing

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Ok, so back to Tekken

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Why are Tekken characters so... mundane? In regards to art direction, I guess. I feel like the only ones who stand out are Yoshimitsu, the bear guys, the Raven ninja dude and Mokujin, the rest seem like just regular humans with martial arts and sometimes lasers or boxing or something lol. Ah, and I never understood what was the deal with having Jin and Devil Jin - is it something like Bi-han and Noob Saiboit?

 

[LEGEND]

Ok, so back to Tekken

Not even Tekken players want that

 

[LEGEND]

Why are Tekken characters so... mundane? In regards to art direction, I guess. I feel like the only ones who stand out are Yoshimitsu, the bear guys, the Raven ninja dude and Mokujin, the rest seem like just regular humans with martial arts and sometimes lasers or boxing or something lol. Ah, and I never understood what was the deal with having Jin and Devil Jin - is it something like Bi-han and Noob Saiboit?

I felt the same for decades. Yoshimitsu was cool in the old Tekken games. But never liked the Tekken aesthetics really and that was a hard barrier for me.

You kinda get past it once you start playing. Same thing happened with me and SF years ago. Character play styles and move sets become the focus.

 

[Vulgar]

Pretty much

At least 1, not like anyone would count others since they were west Coast events.

Never said I was great.

Idk why you are arguing

I'm....not?

I clarified myself and asked you a question.

 

[Marinjuana]

I like Alisa for her gimmicks and unique stances. I'm trying to learn more characters. Please suggest another character based off me liking Alisa's swag

 

[Amplified$hotz]

The game might already be dead tbh. So this patch can only fix it.

Matchmaking is really bad. Most streamers are just running into the same players every match.

Im in purple ranks (the most populated ran) and it still takes me time to find a match

I hope they can turn things around. I think the upcoming tournament season will get more buzz around the game.

We just need the devs to do better. And we need the community to promote the game better.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1914007982267850917

 

[Eddy Wang]

I like Alisa for her gimmicks and unique stances. I'm trying to learn more characters. Please suggest another character based off me liking Alisa's swag

Try Lars, pretty sure @M2Dave would love lars too right now

 

[M2Dave]

Please suggest another character based off me liking Alisa's swag

I recommend Clive, but I would wait until the next patch before learning new characters.

Try Lars, pretty sure @M2Dave would love lars too right now

Lars is really strong right now.

Easily best version of the character since Tekken 6.

I think the upcoming tournament season will get more buzz around the game.

There were two major team tournaments this weekend.

One took place in Korea...

The other one took place in Saudi Arabia (if I am not mistaken)...

I dare say that the game looked the best than any other Tekken in terms of pacing and character variety.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I dare say that the game looked the best than any other Tekken in terms of pacing and character variety.

The players who were there seem to feel that it’s “variety without variety”

https://x.com/i/web/status/1913923225995616293

 

[M2Dave]

The players who were there seem to feel that it’s “variety without variety”

https://x.com/i/web/status/1913923225995616293

I am too ignorant to comment on Guilty Gear Strive, but Tekken 8 as well as Mortal Kombat 1 and Street Fighter 6 have experienced a substantial degree of homogeneity in favor of balance and offense. Moreover, one conspicuous component of the homogeneity is the strong universal mechanic in each fighting game (i.e., drive, heat, and kameo).

Of course, this criticism is valid and has consequently been discussed incessantly.

Your double standard, however, is invalid and continues fascinating me.

Let me ask you for the third time. Perhaps you will finally choose to respond.

Sindel has won two major offline tournaments using hard-to-blockable setups while Cyrax has won one major offline tournament using hard-to-blockable setups.

Many players are concerned about Mortal Kombat 1's set play and offensive options.

Why have you chosen to ignore these concerns in order to focus on another fighting game that you presumably do not even play?

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I recommend Clive, but I would wait until the next patch before learning new characters.



Lars is really strong right now.

Easily best version of the character since Tekken 6.



There were two major team tournaments this weekend.

One took place in Korea...

The other one took place in Saudi Arabia (if I am not mistaken)...

I dare say that the game looked the best than any other Tekken in terms of pacing and character variety.

That event was good for the game because of the personalities present. But the game needs help from the devs.

A while back @Tom Brady talked to you comparing fighting games vs sports. He made the point that sports need spectators but fighting games need players and spectators.

Well Tekken 8 is the first fighting game I’ve seen in a long time where wayyyy more people are interested in watching the game than actually playing it.

When I tune into Tekken streams, most players are there because they like the streamer. When a streamer (that isn’t mainman or Phidx asks to do viewer sets, only a handful out of 150+ people actually want to play.

They scroll down their friends lists, most people are offline.

And everyone all over the world is reporting long queue times or they’re running into the same players repeatedly. Especially at higher ranks.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1914349607120965704

Even if you enjoy the current game (I do too), the truth is most tekken fans don’t enjoy it very much. So their crying must be appeased for the future of the game.

My solutions to Namco for attracting players is:

- Release an incredible balance patch

- Release exciting new characters including a popular guest character

- Release content that’s actually good instead of the mediocre stuff in the tekken shop. TEKKEN force from Tekken 4 would be great

- Do more to promote playing the game than just TWT which promotes watching it

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I am too ignorant to comment on Guilty Gear Strive, but Tekken 8 as well as Mortal Kombat 1 and Street Fighter 6 have experienced a substantial degree of homogeneity in favor of balance and offense. Moreover, one conspicuous component of the homogeneity is the strong universal mechanic in each fighting game (i.e., drive, heat, and kameo).

Of course, this criticism is valid and has consequently been discussed incessantly.

Your double standard, however, is invalid and continues fascinating me.

Let me ask you for the third time. Perhaps you will finally choose to respond.

Sindel has won two major offline tournaments using hard-to-blockable setups while Cyrax has won one major offline tournament using hard-to-blockable setups.

Many players are concerned about Mortal Kombat 1's set play and offensive options.

Why have you chosen to ignore these concerns in order to focus on another fighting game that you presumably do not even play?

Just say you mean “Sonic”, lol. Because Sonic is the person who uses those characters.

I watched Pro Komp East Top 8, and Sooneo was zoning people out with Sektor, the top 3 featured both Edenians, Rain and T-1000.

Meanwhile in the West, it was Ashrah and Mileena, and losing to (you guessed it) baiting whiff punishes, which is the exact same thing that has won most tournaments throughout the year. Yung won the set on an autoshimmy, there was barely any setplay anywhere.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1914340469980516484

 

[M2Dave]

That event was good for the game because of the personalities present.

I agree.

Above everything else, however, that event was good because the game is good.

If you replaced that event with Mortal Kombat 1 and identical character variety, Crimson would speak with an entirely different tone and attitude.

Speaking of Crimson...

Just say you mean “Sonic”, lol. Because Sonic is the person who uses those characters.

If you follow the online competitive scene, you fill find that Cyrax/Sareena has been a common pick recently.

If you play Kombat League at higher ranks, you will also find that Cyrax/Sareena has been a common pick recently.

If you were playing Mortal Kombat 1 for the past six months or so, you probably had the feeling that Cyrax was a very strong character, but Cyrax players were choosing inferior kameos.

Foxy was arguably the first player to discover Cyrax/Sareena.

Subsequently, Sonic Fox copied and mastered the team, as expected from someone who excels at such gameplay style.

I watched Pro Komp East Top 8, and Sooneo was zoning people out with Sektor, the top 3 featured both Edenians, Rain and T-1000.

I have never stated that Sektor cannot zone. I have also never stated that Sektor's zoning is not good.

In fact, when a character can zone, I corrected misconceptions as recently as yesterday.

My talking point is that the dichotomy between offense/rushdown and defensive/zoning is lopsided in Mortal Kombat 1, which is precisely what overall tournament results prove.

Consequently, I support and promote minor to major buffs to certain defensive/zoning characters (i.e., Peacemaker, Quan Chi, Tanya, etc.)

If you want to discuss and debate the specifics, you are, again, for the tenth time, invited to any podcast of your selection (i.e., King Jr's, Mike's, or Tom's). Just suggest the date and time and I will make the proper arrangements.