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Tekken 8 Post-Release Discussion Thread

M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Vulgar said:
I can't say for certain, but I have a strong feeling that Dave's main was buffed in this patch.
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Well, most characters were buffed in this patch.

However, power crush heat engagers, the game's best defensive tool that the Tekken community whined about (along with other defensive tools) were a significant nerf to multiple characters.

As far as my characters are concerned...

Clive - slightly buffed
Kuma/Panda - nerfed in heat/buffed in heat
Lars - massively buffed
Leroy - buffed
Victor - nerfed by universal changes

Furthermore, there is plenty to discuss about this game and its current meta.

Unfortunately, almost none of you plays the game, so there is no purpose in discussing the specifics.
 
Vulgar

Vulgar

Warrior
M2Dave said:
Well, most characters were buffed in this patch.

However, power crush heat engagers, the game's best defensive tool that the Tekken community whined about (along with other defensive tools) were a significant nerf to multiple characters.

As far as my characters are concerned...

Clive - slightly buffed
Kuma/Panda - nerfed in heat/buffed in heat
Lars - massively buffed
Leroy - buffed
Victor - nerfed by universal changes

Furthermore, there is plenty to discuss about this game and its current meta.

Unfortunately, almost none of you plays the game, so there is no purpose in discussing the specifics.
Click to expand...
All @SaltShaker has done is talk specifics. What the...
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Vulgar said:
All @SaltShaker has done is talk specifics. What the...
Click to expand...
I respect Salt Shaker as a player.

He and I have agreed on almost every fighting game controversy over the years.

We happen to disagree on Tekken 8.

I believe that Tekken 8 is a very good game. I also believe that the Tekken community is inconceivably soft and will cry about the meta whether it be offensive or defensive, as history has proven.

Besides, I (as well as Salt Shaker, I presume) do not need you playing the moderator and meddling in this contretemps.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
M2Dave said:
Well, most characters were buffed in this patch.

However, power crush heat engagers, the game's best defensive tool that the Tekken community whined about (along with other defensive tools) were a significant nerf to multiple characters.

As far as my characters are concerned...

Clive - slightly buffed
Kuma/Panda - nerfed in heat/buffed in heat
Lars - massively buffed
Leroy - buffed
Victor - nerfed by universal changes

Furthermore, there is plenty to discuss about this game and its current meta.

Unfortunately, almost none of you plays the game, so there is no purpose in discussing the specifics.
Click to expand...
Have you gone back to Lars yet? Dude got so buffed he's playing Tekken 9 right now LOL.

And yea when I think of that glorious sweet Tekken gameplay, I'm reminded it has devolved to this:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1908667230285422792
 
Roy Arkon

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
SaltShaker said:
Have you gone back to Lars yet? Dude got so buffed he's playing Tekken 9 right now LOL.

And yea when I think of that glorious sweet Tekken gameplay, I'm reminded it has devolved to this:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1908667230285422792
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DAMN that's something I would expect to see in MK1 Invasions or Towers of Time (and yes it did happen with me there a couple of times too), not default settings for an online match in a game that is supposed to be legit competitive.
 
Vulgar

Vulgar

Warrior
M2Dave said:
I respect Salt Shaker as a player.

He and I have agreed on almost every fighting game controversy over the years.

We happen to disagree on Tekken 8.

I believe that Tekken 8 is a very good game. I also believe that the Tekken community is inconceivably soft and will cry about the meta whether it be offensive or defensive, as history has proven.

Besides, I (as well as Salt Shaker, I presume) do not need you playing the moderator and meddling in this contretemps.
Click to expand...
You cannot stop meeeeeeee!

I am inevitable!!!
 
Felipe_Gewehr

Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
SaltShaker said:
No one wants to play "Always plus on block 50/50 guess wrong and die" simulator. I wish I or the community was exaggerating, but this is literally the game now. No one is happy at all.
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But isnt this what MKX was, for the most part? Many people enjoyed the game despite that (or, in some cases, because of that) myself included. Is it truly so bad in Tekken right now that everyone is hating it?
 
Roy Arkon

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Felipe_Gewehr said:
But isnt this what MKX was, for the most part? Many people enjoyed the game despite that (or, in some cases, because of that) myself included. Is it truly so bad in Tekken right now that everyone is hating it?
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The thing is that these are cases of completely different audiences and legacies. MK games, just like the vast majority of fighting game IP's, almost always changed their approach from game-to-game regarding offense and defense, or with the overall set of mechanics get to that level of offense or defense. Tekken did have a couple of games that changed it's set of mechanics like Tekken 4 with the different levels of stages or the Tekken Tag games that were 2V2 games, but even these games still were defensive-oriented games. Tekken 8 is the first Tekken that truly goes to be offense-based, and understandably, people who played Tekken for years are not gonna like it. And after a patch like this, no one who played Tekken for any significant amount of time is gonna like this approach.

Also regarding MKX, just like with all NRS games, people are full of revisionism. When MKX was out, unless you were a super fan of Rushdown-games like Maximillian Dood, no one on the interent FGC, both in and out of the MK interent community, liked MKX. And it wasn't until MK11 coming out that only then people came in to show their love for MKX as if the hate against it never happened. And comparing MKX to Tekken 8, I myself always said that DBFZ, another Rushdown game, was so up there that it made MKX to look like MK2, and now Tekken 8 with this patch is SOOOOOOOOO far of that direction of offense that it makes even DBFZ to look like a defensive game. Even Maximillian himself said that he didn't like this new patch, and like I said, he's a Rushdown game fan.
 
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SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Felipe_Gewehr said:
But isnt this what MKX was, for the most part? Many people enjoyed the game despite that (or, in some cases, because of that) myself included. Is it truly so bad in Tekken right now that everyone is hating it?
Click to expand...
PhiDX is a Top 3 content creator and epic player, and has always been one of those super positive and amazing teaching guys until this patch.The best way to explain it is in this PhiDX video, specifically the 4:55 to 10:15 part about "oversimplified mindgames", and the "it was cooler before" part directly after.


Even if you don't play Tekken you understand what he's saying here. In the 4:55 part he's showing how now the mind game layers have devolved into "A or B, B or A". You can simply be +11 or +5, reset the guessing situation, and one of the correct guesses is still unfavorable for the defender. There is no third layer, it is now simply an automatic option A or option B at all times, killing you if you guess wrong a second time and again even if you guess right you might not have escaped pressure. This was an update in the patch that would "focus on defense" according to the Harada and Murray.

Now in the part after 10:15 he's showing how in the exact same situation there used to be at minimum 5 layers of mind games that can occur depending on how your opponent/you are playing and making the reads, the risk/rewards involved for both players, etc. This not only is much more deep, but also allowed skill expression to shine as you can condition your opponent in a match and attack appropriately.

So a deep, rewarding, multi layered mind game with poke options, punish options, combo options, conditioning, etc scenario was reduced into "which door is the Ferrari behind door A or door B?".

Also, a more simple dumbed down view of what these things look like.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1907773311641112583

Your first question is, why is he just standing there indefinitely taking all that chip damage? Well he's holding +12, and his only option is to attempt to duck or move. The problem is if he does that, he's risking a massive mid wall splat that will wipe his health completely, so he's trying not to die on one wrong guess because it's so risky to move or duck. Throws out his Rage Art to get out pressure because he has it after low health.

Countless examples. Everyone is raging. This was never the game, but it is now.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
SaltShaker said:
Have you gone back to Lars yet?
Click to expand...
Yes, I have.

The #BuffLars meme has finally been realized. LOL.

In all honesty, I have been experimenting with a multitude of characters, the most recent ones being Dragunov and Leroy.

The beauty of this patch is the incredibly high power levels. Almost every character seems very strong.

However, I am advancing at a slower pace in ranked than before. The new moves and animations confuse me.

SaltShaker said:
... "it was cooler before"
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What was cooler before?

Tekken 7's meta?

"Horror... ugly... perfect defensive gameplan... I am just going to back dash the entire time..."

PhiDX's words, not mine, after he fought Knee... at 22:00...


Before anyone else tags me while linking me to a sensationalist tweet...

First of all, I could not care less as I enjoy playing the game.

Second of all, I reiterate that I am not defending every facet of this patch.

History reveals that fighting game developers hypercorrect their game's previous problems.

Tekken 8's "aggression" is an imperfect response to Tekken 7's defensive meta, as described by PhiDX above.

I generally support and approve of Tekken 8's direction, though.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
M2Dave said:
Yes, I have.

The #BuffLars meme has finally been realized. LOL.

In all honesty, I have been experimenting with a multitude of characters, the most recent ones being Dragunov and Leroy.

The beauty of this patch is the incredibly high power levels. Almost every character seems very strong.

However, I am advancing at a slower pace in ranked than before. The new moves and animations confuse me.



What was cooler before?

Tekken 7's meta?

"Horror... ugly... perfect defensive gameplan... I am just going to back dash the entire time..."

PhiDX's words, not mine, after he fought Knee... at 22:00...


Before anyone else tags me while linking me to a sensationalist tweet...

First of all, I could not care less as I enjoy playing the game.

Second of all, I reiterate that I am not defending every facet of this patch.

History reveals that fighting game developers hypercorrect their game's previous problems.

Tekken 8's "aggression" is an imperfect response to Tekken 7's defensive meta, as described by PhiDX above.

I generally support and approve of Tekken 8's direction, though.
Click to expand...
22479
:DOGE
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Knee posted some ideas about Tekken, T8, and S2 in a recent tweet.
https://x.com/i/web/status/1910341811060740297

The way I see it, a fighting game can either have complex execution and be tough to play mechanically, but has simple, shallow layered mind games. Or a FG can be rather simple, easy to learn difficult to master, with fun, multilayered mind games.

Anyway, I don’t know much about Tekken or T8, but following it since the recent S2 patch has definitely been interesting
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
CrimsonShadow said:
Fairly detailed opinion from Speedkicks:

pastebin.com

Revert the patch - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.
pastebin.com pastebin.com
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This was a great read. So accurate.

The wildest part of all the criticism is that pretty much every "super loyalist", the one's who never ever speak negative like Kkokkoma, AyoRichie, ImYourFather, etc., pretty much guys that no matter what happened were ride or die guys to the end, have all turned on the game in one single patch. It's probably the most telling aspect of all of this. Something two weeks ago that you would have thought completely impossible happened all at the same time.

Juggs said:
Knee posted some ideas about Tekken, T8, and S2 in a recent tweet.
https://x.com/i/web/status/1910341811060740297

The way I see it, a fighting game can either have complex execution and be tough to play mechanically, but has simple, shallow layered mind games. Or a FG can be rather simple, easy to learn difficult to master, with fun, multilayered mind games.

Anyway, I don’t know much about Tekken or T8, but following it since the recent S2 patch has definitely been interesting
Click to expand...
I just read that a few minutes ago lol. On point as always, the part I agree the most of course is where he said,

---"Kazuya, he's main moves was weak to left ss, so high level skill is holding the axis and catch left ss, but now you don't care left ss, They added mid safe homing. Simple concepts in this way seem simple to look at, and they're less fun. Fighting games are boring if they're easy."---

The removal of almost everyone's weaknesses, and replacing it with a compensation or a bustedness in the place of the weakness, is my #1 gripe with the patch and what makes it not even worth loading up for me. Removing layers of depth in neutral and replacing it with "this" is the biggest turnoff to a game imaginable for me.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Knee said:
1. Combo too long and high damage
In the past, the combo was simple and short, but it wasn't fun? no it was easy to teach beginners. But now, I have to teach them the tailspin, but it's also difficult. And the tailspin is so strong that it goes in twice, and it makes the combo long. How about tailspin only once?
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Who does not remember the simple and short, low-damaging combos from the past?





Knee said:
9. The direction in which a beginner or rookie beats a veteran I don't know why they make it with this direction, but I don't think it's gamely good. Veterans have invested a lot of time and put a lot of effort into it. So it's a fun game to play when you increase your knowledge and learn your skills. Actually I don't know why a veteran should have a high probability of losing to Beginner or Rookie. Isn't that contradictory?
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This Neanderthal argument again...

If Marvel vs. Capcom 3's and Mortal Kombat X's tournament results were stable, Tekken 8's will be, too.

Most of these talking points are easily disprovable, especially if you have been playing Tekken and following the scene for 25 years.

Please stop appealing to authority and conduct your own research.

Edit:

Leroy is back!

Very strong parry and counter-hit character if you prefer Tekken 7's meta.

Breadman blew up CBM really bad...


Again, please, please, please stop falling for the sensationalism on social media.

Defense may need buffs, but this game is very good.
 
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Roy Arkon

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I originally didn't wanna add this because I didn't want to be involved with this thread this much, but now I have to show it.

@SaltShaker
@Vulgar
@CrimsonShadow

Tekken 8 season 2 is INSANELY BUGGY! As if the offense-level alone wasn't making the game broken enough already.

Anna can steal other chars moves and her opponents can also steal her moves. Anna's opponent can even steal Anna's Rage Art, and because it's not Anna the game's camera can't even follow the animation properly until it's over.

And if that wasn't bad enough, T8 now has an input registration bug that doesn't allow for inputs to be registered properly, just like SF6 had an input system bug already at launch, a bug that the vast majority of the FGC tried to sweep under the rug to not hurt SF6's image and reputation and control the narrative around it.


And the FGC had the audacity to say that MK1 at launch was buggy and rushed. It wasn't, SF6 and T8 at launch had even more bugs than MK1, including that input bug, and now Tekken 8 is basically unplayable from all angles. Objective truth.

M2Dave said:
Who does not remember the simple and short, low-damaging combos from the past?







This Neanderthal argument again...

If Marvel vs. Capcom 3's and Mortal Kombat X's tournament results were stable, Tekken 8's will be, too.

Most of these talking points are easily disprovable, especially if you have been playing Tekken and following the scene for 25 years.

Please stop appealing to authority and conduct your own research.

Edit:

Leroy is back!

Very strong parry and counter-hit character if you prefer Tekken 7's meta.

Breadman blew up CBM really bad...


Again, please, please, please stop falling for the sensationalism on social media.

Defense may need buffs, but this game is very good.
Click to expand...
Tekken had these things in the past, we had super damaging one moves like Yoshimitsu's Stab and Paul's Burning Fist that could take 90% on their own already since the beginning. But Tekken 8 takes it to a whole another level. I haven't play any Tekken game since Tekken 6 (technically I played Tekken 7 once just to try it's Arcade mode in a gaming bar in Israel but it was a one-time only thing, and it just felt horrible to play BTW) and even I remember and know that. Also the Heihachi Tekken 5 DR example doesn't show anything super damaging at all, just saying.
 
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