Tekken 8 Post-Release Discussion Thread

[Vulgar]

I am aware that facts are unlikely to penetrate the bubble. Nonetheless, the following are some examples of the "no side step" (versus Victor while side stepping as Lars, who has a below average side step). Only Lili and Alisa could side step these sequences pre-patch.

• Blocked WR+2 (+5 on block) to Iai 1 (13F) can be side stepped to the left.
• d/b+4 can be side walked to the left by most characters.
• 1,1,2~f (new PRF transition, +7 on hit) to PRF 3 (15F) can be side stepped to the right.

Sensationalism dominates the Tekken community significantly more than offense dominates Tekken 8.

I don't even play Tekken but that last line made me lol.

 

[SaltShaker]

Murray is going on other platforms Iike Reddit, finding people criticizing the game, and blocking them on Twitter even if they have never even spoken to him on Twitter before. These are the people in charge that @M2Dave believes is listening to the community.

 

[M2Dave]

Murray is going on other platforms Iike Reddit, finding people criticizing the game, and blocking them on Twitter even if they have never even spoken to him on Twitter before. These are the people in charge that @M2Dave believes is listening to the community.

After you implement over 1,500 changes in what is arguably the biggest patch in fighting game history, there will be mistakes, unintended consequences, and controversial adjustments, all of which are rightfully subject to criticism.

However, many people in the Tekken community have gone too far.

I despised Mortal Kombat 1, but I never boycotted the game, review bombed the game on Steam, and harassed the developers on social media.

I do not perceive many of the critics as honest actors.

Whether the meta favors offense or defense, they will throw tantrums on Twitter.

So, while I would not block them as Murray did, I would most definitely ignore them.

I played Tekken 8 offline and online over the weekend. I am enjoying the game and this patch, which is one of my all-time favorite.

 

[SaltShaker]

After you implement over 1,500 changes in what is arguably the biggest patch in fighting game history, there will be mistakes, unintended consequences, and controversial adjustments, all of which are rightfully subject to criticism.

However, many people in the Tekken community have gone too far.

I despised Mortal Kombat 1, but I never boycotted the game, review bombed the game on Steam, and harassed the developers on social media.

I do not perceive many of the critics as honest actors.

Whether the meta favors offense or defense, they will throw tantrums on Twitter.

So, while I would not block them as Murray did, I would most definitely ignore them.

I played Tekken 8 offline and online over the weekend. I am enjoying the game and this patch, which is one of my all-time favorite.

I still feel like I'm in an alternate universe that you enjoy the current version of this game after that patch, but at least there's someone out there liking it lol.

 

[M2Dave]

I still feel like I'm in an alternate universe that you enjoy the current version of this game after that patch...

The offensive nature of the game has been significantly exaggerated, which, coming from me, ought to tell you something.

Besides, certain defensive options (i.e., power crushes, Clive's 1+2, Law's CH 1,1,f+1, Feng's Kenpo, Yoshi's flash, etc.) are some of the most complained about attacks in Tekken 8.

Where do you see the consistency?

I believe that a small but highly vocal player base wants to play the equivalent of Tekken 7 for another eight years.

Yet Harada and Murray have been telling you for two years that Tekken 8 will be a different game.

The sensationalism, hypocrisy, and derangement in the Tekken community must stop.

 

[SaltShaker]

Yet Harada and Murray have been telling you for two years that Tekken 8 will be a different game.

This is patently, objectively, false.

Harada and Murray were in fact openly stating that they listened to the community and were going to tone down offense/improve defense as well as make characters less homogeneous in the upcoming S2 patch. They said this multiple times including live on stream, and even when called out that people didn't believe them they said "yes we did just wait until the patch before you complain". Well, we waited, and it was even worse than imagined. This is the crux of the criticism. Out of any communities complaints that we both have followed for many years, this is one of the most justified I have ever seen in any game in any year. This is like Ed Boon and Kombat Kasts saying "we're removing kameos because we heard you all want 1 vs 1" only for them to super buff kameos and make them all +15 on block and double their damage. It's completely indefensible.

Besides, certain defensive options (i.e., power crushes, Clive's 1+2, Law's CH 1,1,f+1, Feng's Kenpo, Yoshi's flash, etc.) are some of the most complained about attacks in Tekken 8.

Most people were willing to tolerate this because they took the developers at their own words, that they were releasing a big patch to improve defense. Biggest complaints were Heat which they nerfed but expectations were they'd nerf much more this patch, SS which they buffed but it's still meh because now everyone has even better tracking on even non-homing moves let alone the new ones, etc etc. Instead of doing what they said they'd do, we have Bryan with + wall splatting 50% damage lows so now he has a devasting 50/50 when he never played like this literally ever, Hwoarang much harder to SS now with multiple tracking moves and multiple + Lows, multiple +OB homing mids added, King with the most braindead pressure one can conceive that an infant can do so no point in even grappling anymore, pretty much almost every character having their weaknesses removed. Not even exaggerating, they legitimately took characters weaknesses away like these examples and many, many more.

I believe that a small but highly vocal player base wants to play the equivalent of Tekken 7 for another eight years.

You are one of the main people I have seen argue that depth and diversity are key in a good fighting game. Tekken has removed both for linear one-sided play and homegenity. You should be leading the charge here. When Bryan and Steve no longer need to play as CH defensive characters you know something is wrong. I can't understate this, everyone, everyone now plays the same. Same pressure, same plus frames, same max damage, same 50/50s. Characters like Bryan, King, and Xiaoyu, once polar opposites of each other, but are now doing the same exact thing by even pro players. This is not Tekken.

It's so bad that I truly cannot remember a community this outraged from "Joe Casual Player" to "Multi-Evo Winner" together united agreeing. Maybe launch SF5? But even that wasn't at this level I think. Other developers should study this master class on what not to do to your consumer.

 

[M2Dave]

I perceive most of your talking points to be asinine such as the insinuation that King and Steve play alike. Nonetheless, I am too old and indifferent to reply with a 1000-word essay that will ultimately not move a needle. I am obviously not going to change your mind about the game. You are obviously not going to change mine. However, I would like to refocus the conversation on facts, numbers, and actuality.

It's so bad that I truly cannot remember a community this outraged from "Joe Casual Player" to "Multi-Evo Winner" together united agreeing. Maybe launch SF5? But even that wasn't at this level I think. Other developers should study this master class on what not to do to your consumer.

As I have already stated, outside of a small but highly vocal player base that lives in an impenetrable bubble, Tekken 8 is objectively doing very well. While the game may not grow the competitive scene as much as Tekken 7 did, I expect sales, offline as well as online tournament numbers, and casual-player engagement to remain steady and consistent until support for the game ceases.

On a general note, the reality is that the Tekken franchise has always favored defensive gameplay styles. The most broken moves in Tekken history are defensive by nature (i.e., TTT1 Heihachi's and Jin's special mid EWGF, Tekken 4's Jin's parry that has no recovery frames on whiff, Tekken 5's Steve's side step death combo, etc.) As the developers are attempting to modernize the meta (in the offensive sense like all current fighting games), errors (and consequently dissent) are made through experimentation (particularly in an excessively ambitious patch that has over 1,500 changes).

A the end of the day, I prefer not to play nerfed and boring fighting games like Mortal Kombat 11 and Tekken 7 (last patch) in which a substantial number of the roster does absolutely nothing interesting. While I believe that Tekken 8 (along with Street Fighter 6 and Mortal Kombat 1) could use some defensive boosts, I will always stand by patches that buff instead of nerf characters.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

This change bummed me out since it removed strategic layers to wake up:

I’ve been grinding the game ahead of combo breaker but yeah I’m not happy with the new season. I would probably have played something else but May is around the corner and I committed to Tekken 8 and COTW before the recent controversies for both games lol!
All this crap about new games makes me respect the smash bros melee scene more. It would be cool if scenes for tekken5dr or 6 or tag 2 started to develop.
But yeah a lot of people who played Tekken seriously for a few games say that they were headed in this direction: buffing out character weaknesses, with highly plus frame tracking moves and stance based offense. Historically, mids with tracking were very punishable. Basically everyone operates more similarly to Lydia and Leroy from Tekken 7.
Many, like kazuya, got a homing mid he can combo out of. Theres too many ways to shut down the defenders movement, basically jail them and force MK-esque 50/50s.
Hope they can correct course. They’ve done some wide sweeping system changes to get up tech, combo tracking, removing ki charge, and other things when the problem was with certain characters and specific moves. Not great, but who knows how convoluted Tekken’s code looks “under the hood” after all these iterations. I’m still playing the game though

 

[Amplified$hotz]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1909806909537841367

 

[SaltShaker]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1909806909537841367

Again, this is just the beginning @M2Dave because this is Tekken's future now. It isn't a "vocal minority", it's people who were already upset before the patch getting louder and people who were happy before the patch getting loud.

Evo Japan 2024 numbers:
SF6: 4851
Tekken 8: 1216

Evo Japan 2025 numbers:
SF6: 6536
Tekken 8: 960

Bruhhh. People weren't happy before and are now even more unhappy, and I expect numbers in future tournaments to look worse as well. This is one of the exacttt arguments you and I both used arguing with people like @CrimsonShadow when saying that MK didn't have/was losing offline support. Now with Tekken you're saying it's a small minority of people as the game is doomed to have less support because so many people don't want to play anymore. I think you're choosing to die on the hill of "I like buff patches it was just difficult" rather than just how bad this made the game. Like historically bad patch just happened in real time. It doesn't matter if it happened by buffs.

 

[Eddy Wang]

everyone now plays the same. Same pressure, same plus frames, same max damage, same 50/50s. Characters like Bryan, King, and Xiaoyu, once polar opposites of each other, but are now doing the same exact thing by even pro players. This is not Tekken.

It's so bad that I truly cannot remember a community this outraged from "Joe Casual Player" to "Multi-Evo Winner" together united agreeing. Maybe launch SF5? But even that wasn't at this level I think. Other developers should study this master class on what not to do to your consumer.

The fact that Jin used to be a character that excelled at neutral with safe pokes and now it's FC mix into stance mix into flying shit mix says a lot about this patch

 

[Eddy Wang]

This change bummed me out since it removed strategic layers to wake up:

I’ve been grinding the game ahead of combo breaker but yeah I’m not happy with the new season. I would probably have played something else but May is around the corner and I committed to Tekken 8 and COTW before the recent controversies for both games lol!
All this crap about new games makes me respect the smash bros melee scene more. It would be cool if scenes for tekken5dr or 6 or tag 2 started to develop.
But yeah a lot of people who played Tekken seriously for a few games say that they were headed in this direction: buffing out character weaknesses, with highly plus frame tracking moves and stance based offense. Historically, mids with tracking were very punishable. Basically everyone operates more similarly to Lydia and Leroy from Tekken 7.
Many, like kazuya, got a homing mid he can combo out of. Theres too many ways to shut down the defenders movement, basically jail them and force MK-esque 50/50s.
Hope they can correct course. They’ve done some wide sweeping system changes to get up tech, combo tracking, removing ki charge, and other things when the problem was with certain characters and specific moves. Not great, but who knows how convoluted Tekken’s code looks “under the hood” after all these iterations. I’m still playing the game though

they essentially killed the best part about tekken 8, it's oki, now it's back to tekken 7 form which sucked, tekken 8 oki was a good improvement sad to see them deleting it.

This is dead once again

 

[SaltShaker]

The fact that Jin used to be a character that excelled at neutral with safe pokes and now it's FC mix into stance mix into flying shit mix says a lot about this patch

I know you're feeling the pain as a long time Jin loyalist lol. I'd bring back Tekken 4 Jin days if it could revert this patch.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I know you're feeling the pain as a long time Jin loyalist lol. I'd bring back Tekken 4 Jin days if it could revert this patch.

They could've done him so much better
Instead they are pushing him to be the pioneer of this block some shit, take a 50-50 guess from the get go.

His omen stance literally does this and it feels boring overall, i mean, i get the point of having this interaction from power stance, which is fine in hit, and it sucks on block
What i wanted, was a way to cook the omen into a free movement if he chooses to, so he can cancel the forced 50-50 if needed.

They went on and instead of giving him something close to it, they gave us a move that does exactly the same omen power stance does but doesn't push back, causes chip on block and has more advantage on hit reducing the interactions the opponent had against it when they blocked power stance, the move became shit.

Here are my suggestions on possible changes

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

This was too funny

Edit: holy shit @Eddy Wang made this

 

[SaltShaker]

This was too funny

@Eddy Wang this is the funniest thing you have ever posted LOL haha! @Vulgar you must watch this, this is the summary of events right here.

 

[Vulgar]

@Eddy Wang this is the funniest thing you have ever posted LOL haha! @Vulgar you must watch this, this is the summary of events right here.

I think it's interesting that everyone - from casual to competitive, content creators, etc - have talked about how ass this Season 2 patch is, only for M2Dave to stand up and tell them they're stupid as shit and wrong.

Arslan Ash? PhiDX? Fools. Morons. They don't know Tekken.

M2Dave...now that guy knows Tekken. Just look at his Tekken resume.

Get shit on, Arslan Ash. EVO Champion? More like....EVO FAILpion.

M2Dave has entered the chat.

More like MShillDave, amiright?

 

[NoCharge]

M2Dave is a shill since mk deception when he played broken dairou and acted like he's any good.

 

[Marinjuana]

Idk but seems like some major whining from the Tekken community rn

 

[SaltShaker]

I think it's interesting that everyone - from casual to competitive, content creators, etc - have talked about how ass this Season 2 patch is, only for M2Dave to stand up and tell them they're stupid as shit and wrong.

Arslan Ash? PhiDX? Fools. Morons. They don't know Tekken.

M2Dave...now that guy knows Tekken. Just look at his Tekken resume.

Get shit on, Arslan Ash. EVO Champion? More like....EVO FAILpion.

M2Dave has entered the chat.

More like MShillDave, amiright?

Even AyoRichie who is the best Leo player in the world, who no matter how mid the character was would always step in saying the character is good and everyone needs to shut up, stop crying, lab, and play the game, has crashed out and said he's out lol. It's really over if even he who I watched but would question if he's on payroll sometimes LOL even he has cracked. The fallout to this patch is truly unprecedented.

 

[M2Dave]

I'd bring back Tekken 4 Jin days if it could revert this patch.

I am aware that you are being sarcastic, but Namco is obviously not reverting 1,500 changes.

So, which defensive mechanic(s) would you implement?

Which character(s) would you (severely) nerf?

As far as sensationalist YouTube videos of players quitting are concerned, good riddance!

I assure you that none of them will actually quit, though. They are merely appeasing the Twitter mob.

 

[SaltShaker]

I am aware that you are being sarcastic, but Namco is obviously not reverting 1,500 changes.

So, which defensive mechanic(s) would you implement?

Which character(s) would you (severely) nerf?

As far as sensationalist YouTube videos of players quitting are concerned, good riddance!

I assure you that none of them will actually quit, though. They are merely appeasing the Twitter mob.

You call it "severely nerf" to give it a negative connotation, but there's a reason why the community is going nuclear like never seen before. No one wants to play "Always plus on block 50/50 guess wrong and die" simulator. I wish I or the community was exaggerating, but this is literally the game now. No one is happy at all.

Weaknesses? Removed for everyone. Sidestep? Useless with +Ob homing and mass tracking. Character diversity? Everyone is Cyrax mixing now. Damage? Everyone does 50-75%. The problem isn't the availability of defensive mechanics. It's that offense is sooooooooo ridiculously overtuned that your current defensive options are literally irrelevant right now. No one wants to play a game with non-existent defense. Even MKX had much more defense than this.

This is bad man. Truly, historically, incomprehensibly, unfathomably, monumentally bad. 10 years from now we'll be talking about the Tekken 8 S2 patch. It will be legendary.

 

[M2Dave]

Weaknesses? Removed for everyone. Sidestep? Useless with +Ob homing and mass tracking. Character diversity? Everyone is Cyrax mixing now. Damage? Everyone does 50-75%. The problem isn't the availability of defensive mechanics. It's that offense is sooooooooo ridiculously overtuned that your current defensive options are literally irrelevant right now. No one wants to play a game with non-existent defense. Even MKX had much more defense than this.

First of all, there is no such thing as "mass tracking". Even players who are highly critical of this patch have acknowledge that the side step has been improved.

Second of all, no character in Tekken 8 is "Cyrax mixing now" because no character can throw you, lunch you, and juggle you while repeatedly setting up offense that ignores wake up attacks.

Third of all, the average non-wall combo does 35-40% of damage, which has been the standard since Tekken 5. The average wall combo does 50-65%, which is similar to Tekken 7. There are a handful of characters (i.e., Kuma/Panda as well as Jin and Lars now from what I have observed) whose wall combos have the potential to exceed 65%, depending on the launcher and the wall carry. Consequently, the claim that everyone does up to 75% is false.

Fourth of all, the insinuation that Tekken 8 is more offensive than Mortal Kombat X is preposterous. Tekken 8 does not have vortexes (i.e., setups that loop themselves and ignore wake up attacks). Forget Mortal Kombat X. I would that Tekken 8 has weaker offense than either Street Fighter 6 or Mortal Kombat 1.

With all due respect, I would be shocked to find out that you have played this patch for more than an hour. You are regurgitating Twitter talking points while making asinine claims and comparisons.

Because nerf has a "negative connotation", I will kindly ask you again: how would you buff defensive options in Tekken 8?

 

[Vulgar]

First of all, there is no such thing as "mass tracking". Even players who are highly critical of this patch have acknowledge that the side step has been improved.

Second of all, no character in Tekken 8 is "Cyrax mixing now" because no character can throw you, lunch you, and juggle you while repeatedly setting up offense that ignores wake up attacks.

Third of all, the average non-wall combo does 35-40% of damage, which has been the standard since Tekken 5. The average wall combo does 50-65%, which is similar to Tekken 7. There are a handful of characters (i.e., Kuma/Panda as well as Jin and Lars now from what I have observed) whose wall combos have the potential to exceed 65%, depending on the launcher and the wall carry. Consequently, the claim that everyone does up to 75% is false.

Fourth of all, the insinuation that Tekken 8 is more offensive than Mortal Kombat X is preposterous. Tekken 8 does not have vortexes (i.e., setups that loop themselves and ignore wake up attacks). Forget Mortal Kombat X. I would that Tekken 8 has weaker offense than either Street Fighter 6 or Mortal Kombat 1.

With all due respect, I would be shocked to find out that you have played this patch for more than an hour. You are regurgitating Twitter talking points while making asinine claims and comparisons.

Because nerf has a "negative connotation", I will kindly ask you again: how would you buff defensive options in Tekken 8?

I can't say for certain, but I have a strong feeling that Dave's main was buffed in this patch.

 

[SaltShaker]

First of all, there is no such thing as "mass tracking". Even players who are highly critical of this patch have acknowledge that the side step has been improved.

Second of all, no character in Tekken 8 is "Cyrax mixing now" because no character can throw you, lunch you, and juggle you while repeatedly setting up offense that ignores wake up attacks.

Third of all, the average non-wall combo does 35-40% of damage, which has been the standard since Tekken 5. The average wall combo does 50-65%, which is similar to Tekken 7. There are a handful of characters (i.e., Kuma/Panda as well as Jin and Lars now from what I have observed) whose wall combos have the potential to exceed 65%, depending on the launcher and the wall carry. Consequently, the claim that everyone does up to 75% is false.

Fourth of all, the insinuation that Tekken 8 is more offensive than Mortal Kombat X is preposterous. Tekken 8 does not have vortexes (i.e., setups that loop themselves and ignore wake up attacks). Forget Mortal Kombat X. I would that Tekken 8 has weaker offense than either Street Fighter 6 or Mortal Kombat 1.

With all due respect, I would be shocked to find out that you have played this patch for more than an hour. You are regurgitating Twitter talking points while making asinine claims and comparisons.

Because nerf has a "negative connotation", I will kindly ask you again: how would you buff defensive options in Tekken 8?

Lots of semantics arguments in there.

Almost every character now has 50/50s, stance 50/50s, or both, including characters who never played like it. Watching some of the pro players use characters like Steve, Jin, Bryan, and King, looks nothing, nothinggggggg like what you expect these characters to play like. And I'm talking best in the world level guys like Heera Malik, Knee, CBM, not some random YouTube guys or Reddit guy. They're playing S2 Tekken 8 with these characters and it's all offense all the time now.

35% mid screen huh?

Even Kazuya is getting near 50% now half life mid screen no wall and if he heat smash enders it it's 50 full. Asuka is getting absurdity levels mid screen now. Everyone does half life mid screen stuff like this even if one of their old weaknesses used to be weaker damage, and much more at the wall now too. Tekken 8, S2. Also just for a fun throw in.

Panda now has an untechable 12F grab that side switches and wall splats for full combo. This is the game now. Even Knee has started to play Panda now because of the stupidity.

The one thing you're absolutely right about is that I refuse to play this abomination of a "game" if it can even be called that after this patch LOL! That much is very correct. I have no problem at all dropping any game if/when it gets bad. So bad that even Harada said they're looking into it. This is what you're defending lol.

Lastly, there is no need to buff defense at all. There are already great defensive options. You simply can't use these great options anymore. Look at any pro match for S2 and it's two ungas playing. Had they actually toned down offense and did the exact same defense updates they made it would be perfect. Buffing sidestep is ridiculous when you give Hwoarang 3 separate homing moves to cover his main weakness of sidestep. Simply let it stay his weakness like it's always been. You don't need to "buff defense" right now, you need to make offense more unsafe and less rewarding. Using Hwoarang as an example, he should not have been given 3 separate homing moves, full stop. His weakness to SS and SS chest should have remained in tact, so good defensive reads with a buffed sidestep could be much more rewarding. That's how you buff defense.