Has NRS silenced the Mortal Kombat 1 critics?

[Eddy Wang]

Vulgar trolled so hard he attracted the presence of a titan troll from another tym timeline, Tomshane is now here to merge the domains...

it's Hilarious when we find out that we even like Vulgar today, and Vulgar himself hates Tomshane, lmao

 

[Trickywizard]

Bro I was one of the loudest critics on earth the 1st few months of the game, nowadays I'm 90% happy with what they have done and think it's a great game with probably the most depth of any MK game. Even @M2Dave when from certified bonafide hater to liking the game. I don't think your statement is correct.

This was me 100% I didn’t play the game for almost a year… just came back and I’m loving this game.

most players dislike mk1 but haven’t played it since release. I just can’t take their opinion seriously.

 

[Eddy Wang]

You’re not understanding. The point in referencing DBFZ or MvC3 is to illustrate the method in which the assists are balanced in those games. In MvC1, it’s a 2v2 fighter with limited use assists. AND the assists AFAIR have one single attack. While Kameos have access to multiple different attacks that do different things. Where the only times you don’t have access to your Kameo is if they’re on cooldown. Kameos shit on every other assist in any assist game AND on top of that they can’t really be punished.

Like go down the list.

-Kameos don’t have a limited amount of uses like in MvC1

-They have access to all of their Kameo moves

-You don’t have to prepick which assist move you want to use

-They can’t be punished like in other assist fighters because they aren’t playable characters with HP

-The game is a 1v1 which makes the Kameos even stronger

-There’s virtually zero downside to using your Kameo and the opponent can’t really do anything about it

Like I said earlier, I already talked about most of this stuff in this thread MK1 isn’t your Father’s Assist Fighter. So check that out if you want more I guess context on the discussion/argument

Imo, Kameos should lose kameo bar if punished and have a cooldown before it starts refiling, this would imo make the game interesting considering how insane they are

 

[Vulgar]

it's Hilarious when we find out that we even like Vulgar today, and Vulgar himself hates Tomshane, lmao

What if TomShane is an ImposterOak hidey?

Bruh I'd be so cooked.

 

[TomShane]

As I said, they can reference canonical events.



He's not, he's from Texas. You're believing something that's not canon and getting things muddled.



And that's what Klassic Tower endings are: what if scenarios. They are not canon.



Almost 14 years of history disagrees with you.

Yes they can reference them, in that case they are semi-canon, but they also can be fully canon. It's a case-by-case thing.

OK I forgot that Erron Black is from Texas, but you can clearly see he wasn't from the same time period in Earthrealm as the Kombat Kids, but much older time period. So my point still stands.

MK11 endings were not canon, and so are multiple endings in various other MK games, but a good chunk of them were either fully canon or semi-canon. Like Reptile's ending in MKDA, which was fully canon and set the events in motion for MKD as Reptile becoming the vessel for Onaga. So not only I got 32 yeas of endings that would agree with me, but I got Dominic himself that would approve me.

 

[TomShane]

This was me 100% I didn’t play the game for almost a year… just came back and I’m loving this game.

most players dislike mk1 but haven’t played it since release. I just can’t take their opinion seriously.

You mean "vocal minority", not "most players"

Imo, Kameos should lose kameo bar if punished and have a cooldown before it starts refiling, this would imo make the game interesting considering how insane they are

Uhhhh...... isn't that what's already happening in MK1? If a Kameo gets hit, they stop the attack, the main character loses a bit of health of his own, and the cooldown meter gets to be on hold before it starts to regenerate. So what's up with that?

 

[Juxtapose]

but you can clearly see he wasn't from the same time period in Earthrealm as the Kombat Kids,

Uh... Kung Jin uses a bow and arrows.

Erron Black isn't using any age defying tricks. He was with the Black Dragon and Kano before Outworld.

Like Reptile's ending in MKDA, which was fully canon and set the events in motion for MKD as Reptile becoming the vessel for Onaga.

Not once have I mentioned the Midway developed games, which have different canonical standards. I've specifically mentioned over and over again the NetherRealm developed titles.

... but I got Dominic himself that would approve me.

And I have 14 years of the modern franchise that say otherwise. NetherRealm has been very consistent in what has been, and has not been, canon. And it's Story Mode (and bios). That's it.

 

[TomShane]

At the end of MKX, the story which was a 20 year time skip, concluded with the anointment of Cassie Cage as the strongest in the world, the new champion of earth, who descended from a legendary bloodline of warriors. She quite literally surpassed Liu Kang as the heroine, as he became a zombie villain. The Kombat Kids were now the new team to protect earthrealm all written very strongly with new foes and rivalries. OG heroes are either dead (Liu Kang, Kitana, etc) or going into other roles.

In MK11, the timelines were "merging" due to Timeline storytelling, Dark Raiden literally evaporated in Chapter 2 (no payoff at all), Cassie became a "role player" alongside Jacqui, and there's no more Kombat Kids because two of them are quite literally not even in the game to storytell. Cassie and Jacqui reduced to quips and helping save other characters, but support roles to the real heroes like Raiden and Liu. Liu Kang is killed but then also not killed and becomes the hero again and a God.


MK11 is a soft reboot to MKX, that shouldn't even be debatable. Two Kombat Kids were removed outright in MK11, and only one is in MK1 as a DLC with a completely different backstory. But after that, you're like " I disagree, it was actually perfect in every way, the Kombat Kids are still clearly the heroes of the story and the New Era is obviously about them. Stop hating on MK" lol.

MK11 was not a reboot of MKX. It continues with the events of MKX, you can see that with Liu Kang and Raiden, as in MKX Raiden talks about how much he misses Liu Kang and Kung Lao and how he wants to bring them back, and it gets expanded upon in MK11 with how the relationship between them gets evolved.

As for Cassie, she was not the "best in the world" and she didn't "surpassed" Liu Kang, she only took the role of the main hero during MKX. By that logic, Johnny Cage was the "best in the world" instead of Liu Kang during MK9 as Cassie got her powers from him. This is exactly what happened with Shujinko in MK Deception. Midway made Shujinko the hero for MKD, but then for MK Armageddon, Taven took that role, and Shujinko got a more side role this time, before MK9 started and that role was given back to Liu Kang in the beginning of MK9 and then to Raiden at the end of it. Cassie was just another one in an expended list of main heroes, and it wasn't even Liu Kang who she took that role from, it was Johnny Cage, as Raiden was the one to kill Shao Kahn at the end of MK9, not Liu Kang, then at the beginning of MKX, Johnny was the one who beat Shinnok, and then Cassie beat him 20 years later.

Anything you said about Dark Raiden, the Kombat Kids or whatever, doesn't matter. MK11 is a legit sequel to MKX, period.

 

[just_2swift]

Damn I would be maining Cyrax & Sektor….

 

[SaltShaker]

MK11 was not a reboot of MKX. It continues with the events of MKX, you can see that with Liu Kang and Raiden, as in MKX Raiden talks about how much he misses Liu Kang and Kung Lao and how he wants to bring them back, and it gets expanded upon in MK11 with how the relationship between them gets evolved.

As for Cassie, she was not the "best in the world" and she didn't "surpassed" Liu Kang, she only took the role of the main hero during MKX. By that logic, Johnny Cage was the "best in the world" instead of Liu Kang during MK9 as Cassie got her powers from him. This is exactly what happened with Shujinko in MK Deception. Midway made Shujinko the hero for MKD, but then for MK Armageddon, Taven took that role, and Shujinko got a more side role this time, before MK9 started and that role was given back to Liu Kang in the beginning of MK9 and then to Raiden at the end of it. Cassie was just another one in an expended list of main heroes, and it wasn't even Liu Kang who she took that role from, it was Johnny Cage, as Raiden was the one to kill Shao Kahn at the end of MK9, not Liu Kang, then at the beginning of MKX, Johnny was the one who beat Shinnok, and then Cassie beat him 20 years later.

Anything you said about Dark Raiden, the Kombat Kids or whatever, doesn't matter. MK11 is a legit sequel to MKX, period.

I'm curious how much WB pays you bro. Are you on salary or per hour?

 

[TomShane]

Uh... Kung Jin uses a bow and arrows.

Erron Black isn't using any age defying tricks. He was with the Black Dragon and Kano before Outworld.



Not once have I mentioned the Midway developed games, which have different canonical standards. I've specifically mentioned over and over again the NetherRealm developed titles.



And I have 14 years of the modern franchise that say otherwise. NetherRealm has been very consistent in what has been, and has not been, canon. And it's Story Mode (and bios). That's it.

Kung Jin using old weapons as being a member of the Shaolin. Gunslingers however clearly are passed their time in Earthrealm, yet you got Erron Black working with the Black Dragon. That's because he got his aging process slowed by Shang Tsung's magic.

And the canonical standards from the recent games are the same as the Midway ones. Ed Boon didn't change anything in that regard. Arcade endings worked like since then and still work like that now.

Once again, I got both 32 years of Mortal Kombat and Dominic backing me up. Are you saying that Dominic lies about it? Because that would be messed up to say.

I'm curious how much WB pays you bro. Are you on salary or per hour?

I wonder how desperate you are for attention, likes and validation, that you throw the "pay" argument so boldly once you realize you can't back up your argument anymore and that you lost.

 

[SaltShaker]

I wonder how desperate you are for attention, likes and validation, that you throw the "pay" argument so boldly once you realize you can't back up your argument anymore and that you lost.

Your argument for MKX setting up the Kombat Kids and Dark Raiden as major players at the end of MKX, but then literally evaporating Dark Raiden with no payoff in Chapter 2 and two Kombat Kids not even being in the game is "amazing storytelling, perfect consistent continuation, doesn't matter at all". Yes, I am very curious how much you get paid and what your schedule is like. If they have part time roles maybe I can apply.

 

[Juxtapose]

That's because he got his aging process slowed by Shang Tsung's magic.

Or it's because they wanted a cool cowboy character. His aging thing wasn't even referenced in the Mortal Kombat X comics, which were canon for about 5 years.

And the canonical standards from the recent games are the same as the Midway ones. Ed Boon didn't change anything in that regard. Arcade endings worked like since then and still work like that now.

The games and lore disagree with you.

Are you saying that Dominic lies about it?

I'm saying things change/don't always go the direction a lead writer wants. As someone with decades of experience in television production and watching lead creatives have to change things in ways they don't want/approve of, I know it's a thing.

 

[Juxtapose]

What if TomShane is an ImposterOak hidey?

Bruh I'd be so cooked.

Going back and forth with him, he actually reminds me more of how MKF30 posted, if you remember him.

 

[TomShane]

Or it's because they wanted a cool cowboy character. His aging thing wasn't even referenced in the Mortal Kombat X comics, which were canon for about 5 years.



The games and lore disagree with you.



I'm saying things change/don't always go the direction a lead writer wants. As someone with decades of experience in television production and watching lead creatives have to change things in ways they don't want/approve of, I know it's a thing.

MKX comic were only semi-canon, not fully canon. Shawn Kittlesen said by himself that he was given full freedom of what to do with the story in the comic. You can clearly see a lot of the events in the comic don't line-up with the game's story, like how Ermac rejected Mileena in the base story while they were in Outworld, but in the comic he rejected her after they were freed from Havik. That doesn't line up at all.

I myself also took classes in writing, and while I'm not a professional writer, I wrote some stuff of my own, plus got to have talks with other pro writers as well, on top of having very high knowledge about the history and lore of MK, and I got, once again both Dominic himself and 32 years of MK that would debunk your argument.

Your argument for MKX setting up the Kombat Kids and Dark Raiden as major players at the end of MKX, but then literally evaporating Dark Raiden with no payoff in Chapter 2 and two Kombat Kids not even being in the game is "amazing storytelling, perfect consistent continuation, doesn't matter at all". Yes, I am very curious how much you get paid and what your schedule is like. If they have part time roles maybe I can apply.

And yet you didn't debunk the fact that this was already with Shujinko and Taven in the 3D era and that Cassie was just another one in the line of main heroes just like them, plus that Dark Raiden being erased has no impact on the MKX story or MK11 in any negative way since clearly the main focus for Raiden was his relationship with Liu Kang which was started to work in both MK9 and MKX, and that the only rule for Dark Raiden was given in order to set up the death of Sonya, who would have her past self come back from the past.

You are just mad that you expect something to happen, and even though MKX and MK11 are both amazing stories, you are just mad that what you didn't expect didn't happen and throw a tantrum over nothing. But once again, considering how hard people on the interent crave empty validation and likes, to the point that we got grifters like Mike Hollow and FATE who take advantage of that for profit, I can only wonder how desperate for validation you are, or in other words, how much you actually believe what you're saying? I mean, why you would throw MCU MCU MCU when MK9 started the time-travel aspect before the MCU, other than just parroting what grifters and bashers are saying?

 

[Juxtapose]

MKX comic were only semi-canon, not fully canon.

And yet Ed Boon called them fully canon when they launched. Are you saying that Ed lied about it? Because that would be messed up to say.

... that would debunk your argument.

It's not an argument, it's how the canon of the modern franchise is.

But hey, we'll see what happens in Mortal Kombat 13.

 

[Vulgar]

Going back and forth with him, he actually reminds me more of how MKF30 posted, if you remember him.

Man. I haven't thought of him in ages.

 

[SaltShaker]

You are just mad that you expect something to happen, and even though MKX and MK11 are both amazing stories, you are just mad that what you didn't expect didn't happen and throw a tantrum over nothing. But once again, considering how hard people on the interent crave empty validation and likes, to the point that we got grifters like Mike Hollow and FATE who take advantage of that for profit, I can only wonder how desperate for validation you are, or in other words, how much you actually believe what you're saying? I mean, why you would throw MCU MCU MCU when MK9 started the time-travel aspect before the MCU, other than just parroting what grifters and bashers are saying?

Let's try this another way. What was bad in the story and/or what changes or new things in the story across the NRS games were bad?

 

[SaltShaker]

Going back and forth with him, he actually reminds me more of how MKF30 posted, if you remember him.

Man. I haven't thought of him in ages.

You know I think Jux may have just solved it lol might be dead on.

 

[Trickywizard]

What if TomShane is an ImposterOak hidey?

Bruh I'd be so cooked.

What if this is actually Tom Brady’s hidey?
I believe Tom luls Brady was Brady himself lol

 

[Trickywizard]

You mean "vocal minority", not "most players"



Uhhhh...... isn't that what's already happening in MK1? If a Kameo gets hit, they stop the attack, the main character loses a bit of health of his own, and the cooldown meter gets to be on hold before it starts to regenerate. So what's up with that?

Yes I meant “most players that dislike MK1”

 

[Subby Z]

We've had different experiences/observations then.

Set aside Mortal Kombat and looking at other franchises, and I see things being taken in logical progressive directions, and fans get pissed. When devs bring things back to a more classic story and feel, fans get pissed. It's a no-win situation.

I've seen this in Starcraft, Halo, Diablo, Gears of War, and other franchises that I'm forgetting right now.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of reboots and prefer things keep going consistently, even if some bad choices have been made.

I’m going to say this about that situation.

So I have noticed online fandoms are loud, but those fandoms are often very vocal online (because they’re chronically online) but aren’t actually the major part of the fanbase.

Meaning you can go on Reddit and see they all want the villains in more prominent roles, they want more 3d era characters, and so on and so forth. Then a game doesn’t sell as well and it turns out the company listened to the wrong fans.

Then there’s the problem with censorship online and fans disapproving of things (like gender swaps for instance) and they are told they have wrong think and are censored. Hell sometimes they are even banned or suspended. So then these companies cater to these chronically online fans who want things that do not sit well with general audiences and the company wonders why they failed with particular projects.

I HEAVILY agree with @SaltShaker. Most fans don’t want heavy changes. Sometimes you get writers (or even actors) who hate the source material. Like Margot Robbie and Harley Quinn. The character of Harley Quinn has been butchered for years now and one reason is because Margot Robbie didn’t actually like the character and she has said as much in interviews. So she changed her to fit as a character she liked and commercially every movie she was in flopped.

Another good example is Gail Simone. I don’t read many comics but know Nightcrawler is a devout catholic and has often not fit in with society due to his appearance. So gail simone turns him into a fucking furry.lol. Like what? Then online you would think everyone loves that kind of shit because online spaces are so heavily curated and moderated with a progressive leaning so the true opinions of a larger audience get muffled.

Another thing online is fans shitting on Scorpion in MK calling him overexposed, shitting on Boon for heavily favoring him, and I’m sure you’ve seen that discourse. You’re an MK fan. Common sense should tell you that’s not a general audiences opinion though because he’s their most played character. So when you heavily change him like they did in this game you should expect backlash from a larger audience. You go online and then the same fans who were shitting on Scorpion have changed their tune, “yeah Scorpion was kind of annoying, but they didn’t need to change him like they did.” So when fans want things heavily changed I often laugh because usually larger swathes of consumers want something closer to what they recognize.

 

[Vulgar]

I’m going to say this about that situation.

So I have noticed online fandoms are loud, but those fandoms are often very vocal online (because they’re chronically online) but aren’t actually the major part of the fanbase.

Meaning you can go on Reddit and see they all want the villains in more prominent roles, they want more 3d era characters, and so on and so forth. Then a game doesn’t sell as well and it turns out the company listened to the wrong fans.

Then there’s the problem with censorship online and fans disapproving of things (like gender swaps for instance) and they are told they have wrong think and are censored. Hell sometimes they are even banned or suspended. So then these companies cater to these chronically online fans who want things that do not sit well with general audiences and the company wonders why they failed with particular projects.

I HEAVILY agree with @SaltShaker. Most fans don’t want heavy changes. Sometimes you get writers (or even actors) who hate the source material. Like Margot Robbie and Harley Quinn. The character of Harley Quinn has been butchered for years now and one reason is because Margot Robbie didn’t actually like the character and she has said as much in interviews. So she changed her to fit as a character she liked and commercially every movie she was in flopped.

Another good example is Gail Simone. I don’t read many comics but know Nightcrawler is a devout catholic and has often not fit in with society due to his appearance. So gail simone turns him into a fucking furry.lol. Like what? Then online you would think everyone loves that kind of shit because online spaces are so heavily curated and moderated with a progressive leaning so the true opinions of a larger audience get muffled.

Another thing online is fans shitting on Scorpion in MK calling him overexposed, shitting on Boon for heavily favoring him, and I’m sure you’ve seen that discourse. You’re an MK fan. Common sense should tell you that’s not a general audiences opinion though because he’s their most played character. So when you heavily change him like they did in this game you should expect backlash from a larger audience. You go online and then the same fans who were shitting on Scorpion have changed their tune, “yeah Scorpion was kind of annoying, but they didn’t need to change him like they did.” So when fans want things heavily changed I often laugh because usually larger swathes of consumers want something closer to what they recognize.

This post was written by someone that doesn't understand how character arcs work.

Given that Margot Robbie's version of Harley has found its way back into comics and shows, I'm going to say that it's probably fine and you should really take a shower.

Games(and stories) that insist upon themselves often find themselves doing so all the way to the bargain bin.

Take Kratos, for example. The sales for the spin off games after GoW3 were abysmal. There was nowhere left for that version of Kratos to go.

In comes these last two games, taking a risk and sending Kratos into a new direction while being critical and commercial successes.

People think they want the same thing, until that same thing is driven into the ground.

See also: Resident Evil.

A franchise that found itself circling the creative drain TWICE until completely re-inventing itself.

As RE4 and RE7 show, people actually like change and progression.

No one was clamoring for more Resident Evil 0.

 

[Jynks]

So I have noticed online fandoms are loud, but those fandoms are often very vocal online (because they’re chronically online) but aren’t actually the major part of the fanbase.

Meaning you can go on Reddit and see they all want the villains in more prominent roles, they want more 3d era characters, and so on and so forth. Then a game doesn’t sell as well and it turns out the company listened to the wrong fans

This is what I think happens almost of the time.

There is a real issue with how companies evaluate the noise from social media, not just in gaming but everywhere it seems.

Someone goes to a comedy show and 20,000 people over a week love it or hate it and move on, and one arsehole make a twitter post about how they were offended and the guy is canceled, Or w/e.... just an example, but I honestly do not believe any of these sources like reddit or twitter or yutubers influencers are representative of the majority of people that actually buy and play the game. Particularly as the social media monetises negative commentary. An entire generation and counting of people frame their entire life through negativity, as that is the entirety of how commentary is done online. I spend a lot of time in film, tv and other game forums and you can tell peoples generation by how they communicate and many people seem incapable of speaking without speaking through negativity. I believe it is as they have been trained to do so. It is simply how they think commentary is done.

So no.. I do not believe reddit or other forms of social media or even a place like this forum is actually representative of the larger playerbase. It is just the vocal ones, and even that voice is suspect due to a seemingly inability for people to communicate in any way that is not negative.

IMO... game devs shouldn't listen to players at all. They should follow their own stylistic choices and trust in their creatives they employ to make games THEY want to play...and forget all the notice from the fandom completely. Gamers are not game designers and most of them couldn't be trusted to make game design or balancing decision, and most definitely have no idea how the industry and actual businesses even work.

Opening up hollywood to the whims of the massive and taking their input on everything certainly made things better, right? Like the film industry the game industry needs to just stop listening to anything the fans say. Let fandom go back to what it was in the old days... conversations and chat between fans.

 

[Subby Z]

This post was written by someone that doesn't understand how character arcs work.

Given that Margot Robbie's version of Harley has found its way back into comics and shows, I'm going to say that it's probably fine and you should really take a shower.

Games(and stories) that insist upon themselves often find themselves doing so all the way to the bargain bin.

Take Kratos, for example. The sales for the spin off games after GoW3 were abysmal. There was nowhere left for that version of Kratos to go.

In comes these last two games, taking a risk and sending Kratos into a new direction while being critical and commercial successes.

People think they want the same thing, until that same thing is driven into the ground.

See also: Resident Evil.

A franchise that found itself circling the creative drain TWICE until completely re-inventing itself.

As RE4 and RE7 show, people actually like change and progression.

No one was clamoring for more Resident Evil 0.

Oh I understand how arcs work and I understand you don't fundamentally make characters someone completely different or you risk alienating fans.

I have nothing against Margot Robbie's version of Harley. I'm neither here nor there about it, and apparently that's how everyone else feels as well. Let's look at some of the things Harley is doing lately. Her show on Max which good god how is that even still on? The viewership is abysmal. She was just in Suicide Squad Kill the Justice league. Real winner that one was. Now she's in a fart comic.lol. Like you actually cannot make this shit up.

Harley as a character is better when she's by Joker's side. Everything she's in does kind of awful lately. Idk what you're seeing.

Everything needs a change up, but you don't change who characters are at their core. Resident Evil can reinvent itself because it spans action games and horror games now and you don't follow just 1 protagonist. So of course it can reinvent itself. I also loved Resident Evil 7, but what you're missing is fans had been BEGGING capcom to take Resident Evil back to its horror roots. So really fans were wanting to go back to what Vulgar? What Resident Evil started as. A horror game.

Again the NRS era did it right. They didn't just fundamentally ruin characters (at least not imo). Many of them had similar backstories and a lot of what we didn't know about characters in the original games was given some context. Did they make some flubs? Absolutely, but nobody was just fucked beyond Repair.

Mk1 fucked it beyond repair.haha. Sub-Zero is Scorpion now for some fucking reason. Raiden doesn't even have powers. Hell half the characters don't. They learn their shit through magic. Rain was also ruined with his Wizarding world of harry potter ass. They fundamentally changed who all of these characters are and I gave zero fucks about literally any of them. I won't either until they get them back closer to who they conceptually are. You can tell new stories with characters and not change them completely.

IMO... game devs shouldn't listen to players at all. They should follow their own stylistic choices and trust in their creatives they employ to make games THEY want to play...and forget all the notice from the fandom completely. Gamers are not game designers and most of them couldn't be trusted to make game design or balancing decision, and most definitely have no idea how the industry and actual businesses even work.

Oops see no we disagree there. You were missing what I was saying. All I'm saying is internet fandoms are often not the audience at large so listening to them screaming for certain things doesn't always work.

Not listening at all is how we get franchises like Marvel, DC, star wars, and the like all sitting in the holes they're in now trying to find their way out and Kevin Feige practically frothing at the mouth to bring back his money making actors. You can't just continually not listen to anyone and expect success. You just have to be careful which parts of fanbases you listen to is the point I'm gettting at.