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MK1 Tier List Discussion Thread

Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
I wasn't saying Reiko needed anything (although I could have a discussion about some changes he could probably use). I was questioning the aforementioned claim that "every character" is getting new moves, changes, pickups, etc. If my character is getting any of this, it's news to me outside of the f2 I mentioned above.

I don't think every character needs to be dependent on mixups. Not OH/low or HTBs, anyway.
Oh my bad. I definitely agree not every character needs to be dependent on mixups.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
What new moves is Reiko getting? That f2 change was not a fucking buff at all. I could have done without it, to be honest. Getting 25-28% for a bar and full Kameo gauge is horseshit. It's also very, very Kameo specific and requires actual timing. Reiko doesn't suddenly get to go all unga bunga with f2 mixup launches or anything. >.>

Kitana doesn't need any type of mixup potential. I think she's in a really good spot right now.
OH no, definitely not what I also meant. I don't think kitana needs mixups (would be welcome).

I think she needs some new specials, or additions to her strings. That would add to her already existing strengths. There's no reason for her not to have a fan flutter for example. She could get some ex fan toss in the air for plus frames, or safety. Just something. She needs options, which is at least what other characters get.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Literally the only thing she lacks is mix up options...
All the top tier characters have great mix up options, which is why Kitana is not top 8.

I forget where I heard the comment, but Ninja Killa was essentially saying that if your character only relies on strike/throw mix ups, your character cannot be top tier.

As far as zoning is concerned, Kitana's zoning is average aside from d,b+3. Aerial fan toss is crap, and the EX fan toss was much better zoning tool in Mortal Kombat 11.

Zoning is weak in Mortal Kombat 1 anyway.

In recent times, the closest Kitana came to a top 8 character was pre-custom moves and pre-razors nerfs in Mortal Kombat 11.

NRS should add razors in this game. LOL.

I doubt that she is higher than mid tier.
 

Hot_DNA

Mortal
All the top tier characters have great mix up options, which is why Kitana is not top 8.

I forget where I heard the comment, but Ninja Killa was essentially saying that if your character only relies on strike/throw mix ups, your character cannot be top tier.

As far as zoning is concerned, Kitana's zoning is average aside from d,b+3. Aerial fan toss is crap, and the EX fan toss was much better zoning tool in Mortal Kombat 11.

Zoning is weak in Mortal Kombat 1 anyway.

In recent times, the closest Kitana came to a top 8 character was pre-custom moves and pre-razors nerfs in Mortal Kombat 11.

NRS should add razors in this game. LOL.

I doubt that she is higher than mid tier.
I play Kitana/Mavado and you literally can't jump anywhere on the screen without taking 30% damage.. Yeah maybe at Ninjakilla's level she is mid tier but that's like the top 10% of mk players.. I like where she is, I don't want her to be broken.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
All the top tier characters have great mix up options, which is why Kitana is not top 8.

I forget where I heard the comment, but Ninja Killa was essentially saying that if your character only relies on strike/throw mix ups, your character cannot be top tier.

As far as zoning is concerned, Kitana's zoning is average aside from d,b+3. Aerial fan toss is crap, and the EX fan toss was much better zoning tool in Mortal Kombat 11.

Zoning is weak in Mortal Kombat 1 anyway.

In recent times, the closest Kitana came to a top 8 character was pre-custom moves and pre-razors nerfs in Mortal Kombat 11.

NRS should add razors in this game. LOL.

I doubt that she is higher than mid tier.
Exactly. Which is why I think, that she needs to get some new special moves.

Don't give her mix, fine. However, I'm tired of kitana being the mid tier character in the last two games, that relies on punishing people for their mistakes for her to win.

Thus, I think she needs some new moves.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
The new year is almost here, which means that there must be a new tier list.

The Kings, Cherny, and I collaborated on this minor project, for which we may record a podcast in the near future.

At this time, the characters within each tier are listed alphabetically

Any feedback is welcome.

---

S: Havik, Kenshi, Nitara, Noob, Scorpion, Sindel

A: Ermac, General Shao, Homelander, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena

B: Ashrah, Baraka, Cyrax, Ghostface, Rain, Reiko, Sektor, Smoke

C: Geras, Kitana, Li Mei, Omni Man, Quan Chi, Raiden, Reptile, Shang Tsung, Takeda

D: Peacemaker, Sub Zero, Tanya
 
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Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
The new year is almost here, which means that there must be a new tier list.

The Kings, Cherny, and I collaborated on this minor project, for which we may record a podcast in the near future.

At this time, the characters within each tier are listed alphabetically

Any feedback is welcome.

---

S: Havik, Kenshi, Nitara, Noob, Scorpion, Sindel

A: Ermac, General Shao, Homelander, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena

B: Ashrah, Baraka, Cyrax, Ghostface, Rain, Reiko, Sektor, Smoke

C: Geras, Kitana, Li Mei, Omni Man, Quan Chi, Raiden, Shang Tsung, Takeda

D: Peacemaker, Sub Zero, Tanya
I always like discussing tier lists, thank you for posting. I'm curious as to why you think Kenshi is still so high? Is he better than Homelander, in your opinion?
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
The new year is almost here, which means that there must be a new tier list.

The Kings, Cherny, and I collaborated on this minor project, for which we may record a podcast in the near future.

At this time, the characters within each tier are listed alphabetically

Any feedback is welcome.

---

S: Havik, Kenshi, Nitara, Noob, Scorpion, Sindel

A: Ermac, General Shao, Homelander, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena

B: Ashrah, Baraka, Cyrax, Ghostface, Rain, Reiko, Sektor, Smoke

C: Geras, Kitana, Li Mei, Omni Man, Quan Chi, Raiden, Shang Tsung, Takeda

D: Peacemaker, Sub Zero, Tanya
I don't disagree with Reiko's placement at all. Although I am curious why y'all placed him there. I'd definitely like to see what you came up with.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
Are there any notes explaining each character? For example, Kenshi being so high is pretty obvious (sento is insane), but I'm curious about characters like Shao being that high.
 

Krasiox

Noob
The new year is almost here, which means that there must be a new tier list.

The Kings, Cherny, and I collaborated on this minor project, for which we may record a podcast in the near future.

At this time, the characters within each tier are listed alphabetically

Any feedback is welcome.

---

S: Havik, Kenshi, Nitara, Noob, Scorpion, Sindel

A: Ermac, General Shao, Homelander, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena

B: Ashrah, Baraka, Cyrax, Ghostface, Rain, Reiko, Sektor, Smoke

C: Geras, Kitana, Li Mei, Omni Man, Quan Chi, Raiden, Shang Tsung, Takeda

D: Peacemaker, Sub Zero, Tanya
I like this tierlist because reptile is in the invisible tier
Happy Holidays yall
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Are there any notes explaining each character? For example, Kenshi being so high is pretty obvious (sento is insane), but I'm curious about characters like Shao being that high.
Explanations may be provided in a future video on King or King Jr.'s YouTube channel.

Generally speaking, Mortal Kombat 1 revolves around offense, damage, and footsies. Defense, namely d+1 and armor, is important as well. Zoning is a factor, albeit the least relevant one out of the aforementioned categories.

I also consider tournament results, and players like Dyloch and BWood consistently place top 8 with Shao Kahn, which is why I rank the character very high. Obviously, he has certain weaknesses in footsies and at ranges beyond footsies. He is susceptible to "low poke mashing" and turtling/zoning, particularly when he does not have the life lead.

I'm curious as to why you think Kenshi is still so high? Is he better than Homelander, in your opinion?
Kenshi has access to the most oppressive set play in the game. If you watch players like Red Nose or Mari play, they can win rounds from one interaction.

Kenshi is susceptible to turtling/zoning, but only in a select few match ups.

Although I despise fighting him, I do acknowledge the fact that he requires significantly more skill and execution to play than the average Mortal Kombat 1 character.

Unlike Kenshi who has to set up the "Sento sandwich" in order to create his winning condition, pre-patch Homelander mixed you up just by being close to you. Now that f+4 hits mid, he has to take more risks with throws and command throws. Nonetheless, he remains high tier because of mix ups, footsies, and mobility options on the ground and air.

I don't disagree with Reiko's placement at all. Although I am curious why y'all placed him there. I'd definitely like to see what you came up with.
Reiko is neither the best rush down character, nor the worst... neither the best footsies character, nor the worst... neither the best zoning character, nor the worst...

He is a solid, mid-tier character who excels in no particular category yet also underperforms in none.

He has certainly been power crept by the most recent DLC characters as well as by the massively buffed characters like Havik and Nitara.

I used to use Reiko. I disliked fighting against the top tier characters and I still do.

He could benefit from a new special move using the spear...

NRS... hello?

The animations are already in Invasions.

I like this tierlist because reptile is in the invisible tier
Reptile's invisibility is finally great... :REO

Added to C tier.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
Explanations may be provided in a future video on King or King Jr.'s YouTube channel.

Generally speaking, Mortal Kombat 1 revolves around offense, damage, and footsies. Defense, namely d+1 and armor, is important as well. Zoning is a factor, albeit the least relevant one out of the aforementioned categories.

I also consider tournament results, and players like Dyloch and BWood consistently place top 8 with Shao Kahn, which is why I rank the character very high. Obviously, he has certain weaknesses in footsies and at ranges beyond footsies. He is susceptible to "low poke mashing" and turtling/zoning, particularly when he does not have the life lead.



Kenshi has access to the most oppressive set play in the game. If you watch players like Red Nose or Mari play, they can win rounds from one interaction.

Kenshi is susceptible to turtling/zoning, but only in a select few match ups.

Although I despise fighting him, I do acknowledge the fact that he requires significantly more skill and execution to play than the average Mortal Kombat 1 character.

Unlike Kenshi who has to set up the "Sento sandwich" in order to create his winning condition, pre-patch Homelander mixed you up just by being close to you. Now that f+4 hits mid, he has to take more risks with throws and command throws. Nonetheless, he remains high tier because of mix ups, footsies, and mobility options on the ground and air.



Reiko is neither the best rush down character, nor the worst... neither the best footsies character, nor the worst... neither the best zoning character, nor the worst...

He is a solid, mid-tier character who excels in no particular category yet also underperforms in none.

He has certainly been power crept by the most recent DLC characters as well as by the massively buffed characters like Havik and Nitara.

I used to use Reiko. I disliked fighting against the top tier characters and I still do.

He could benefit from a new special move using the spear...

NRS... hello?

The animations are already in Invasions.



Reptile's invisibility is finally great... :REO

Added to C tier.
Reiko could use a new special for sure and some of his strings/buttons tweaked/re-worked. I'm not suggesting anything outlandish, mind you. I just wish that he had more variety. With the way his strings currently are, they don't allow for it. Then you factor in his awful gravity on combos and it limits you even further. I can't think of a single other character in the game that has the gravity scaling he does.

He's not a bad character by any means. I'll never contest that. I simply want more combo routes/freedom without factoring Kameos at all.
 

Vulgar

Kombatant
Why is Geras so low?

I'm not suggesting he's top 10 per se, but I think the recent buffs to f3 and his command grab are pretty huge. In the corner, you're looking at a 33/33/33 between overhead, command grab, and his low. That's pretty strong, imo.

Granted, his d1 is awful and his neutral buttons aren't the best, but even without a Kameo he's still doing good damage. That's before you get to crazy stuff like full-screen hour conversions off clone and the sheer variety of set up options he has.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Why is Geras so low?
King Jr. does not think highly of Geras, even after the buffs. He thinks Geras is low tier. LOL.

King, on the other hand, thinks Geras is better.

I am no Geras player, so I am not familiar with the match ups, but I can understand how the limited range on d+1 as well as the armor is a massive liability against certain characters. I would imagine that something simple like Scorpion's b+3 into Ferra's 50/50 mix up is a pain in the ass to defend against.

Geras is a a complex character who attracts talented and dedicated players, many of whom have had success in offline and/or online tournaments. While he is no longer low tier, I would probably not place him above mid tier because of the aforementioned issues.

NRS is also likely scared of top tier Geras as he would slow down the pace of each match with time stop, and hence the reluctant buffs.
 
The new year is almost here, which means that there must be a new tier list.

The Kings, Cherny, and I collaborated on this minor project, for which we may record a podcast in the near future.

At this time, the characters within each tier are listed alphabetically

Any feedback is welcome.

---

S: Havik, Kenshi, Nitara, Noob, Scorpion, Sindel

A: Ermac, General Shao, Homelander, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena

B: Ashrah, Baraka, Cyrax, Ghostface, Rain, Reiko, Sektor, Smoke

C: Geras, Kitana, Li Mei, Omni Man, Quan Chi, Raiden, Reptile, Shang Tsung, Takeda

D: Peacemaker, Sub Zero, Tanya
Ah, nice, always fun to have one of these to talk about. What stands out the most to me is how surprisingly low Sub and Tanya are. Both are top 15 characters, imo. Sub for instance only has a handful of losing MUs if you use a Slide focused game plan (i.e. Kameos like Scorpion, Sonya, or Cyrax). Here's a recent MU video if anyone wants a quick visual by jumping to the end:


Peacemaker on the other hand I can see being the worst after the nerfs and because of the existence of Sub Kameo.
 

Hot_DNA

Mortal
Ah, nice, always fun to have one of these to talk about. What stands out the most to me is how surprisingly low Sub and Tanya are. Both are top 15 characters, imo. Sub for instance only has a handful of losing MUs if you use a Slide focused game plan (i.e. Kameos like Scorpion, Sonya, or Cyrax). Here's a recent MU video if anyone wants a quick visual by jumping to the end:


Peacemaker on the other hand I can see being the worst after the nerfs and because of the existence of Sub Kameo.
Sub Zero is probably my worst match-up. I will choose a Nitara/Ferra ANYDAY over a Sub/any kameo.. I d9nt think he is broke or anything but he definately gets downplayed
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Ah, nice, always fun to have one of these to talk about. What stands out the most to me is how surprisingly low Sub and Tanya are. Both are top 15 characters, imo. Sub for instance only has a handful of losing MUs if you use a Slide focused game plan (i.e. Kameos like Scorpion, Sonya, or Cyrax). Here's a recent MU video if anyone wants a quick visual by jumping to the end:

I enjoyed listening to your match up video as well as watching your sets against top players.

While I agree that Sub Zero is downplayed, your appraisal of the character is highly optimistic, in my humble opinion.

I have watched players like Sikander and Train fight Kenshi players of Red Nose's caliber, and I fail to see how Sub Zero wins this match up, especially when Kenshi's kameo is Sub Zero.

If you remove pre-patch Peacemaker from the equation, the game's meta has not been known to allow zoning and/or defensive and/or hit-and-run characters to flourish at the highest level.

You did accurately indicate Kung Lao and Online Cale's success in online tournaments. There are multiple reasons why Kung Lao's hit-and-run strategy works, one of which is the ability to set up safe, sometimes even advantageous, un-reactable 50/50 mix ups after damaging combos that carry to the corner.

Sub Zero's offensive options by comparison are more limited.
 
The new year is almost here, which means that there must be a new tier list.

The Kings, Cherny, and I collaborated on this minor project, for which we may record a podcast in the near future.

At this time, the characters within each tier are listed alphabetically

Any feedback is welcome.

---

S: Havik, Kenshi, Nitara, Noob, Scorpion, Sindel

A: Ermac, General Shao, Homelander, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena

B: Ashrah, Baraka, Cyrax, Ghostface, Rain, Reiko, Sektor, Smoke

C: Geras, Kitana, Li Mei, Omni Man, Quan Chi, Raiden, Reptile, Shang Tsung, Takeda

D: Peacemaker, Sub Zero, Tanya
Are this in order?
Been hearing Scorps it’s not top lately.
 

Mr Aquaman

Armored Launcher
Administrator
Nitara being S is surprising as I feel she's rarely seen, at least competitively. Call me crazy but Mileena could replace her there. This is based off strictly tournament results and what I see in brackets on a normal basis. Shao and Rains placements look good speaking on who I play, I think Rain could arguably be A but really needs a throw combo it seems to be that effective.