Support for MK1 Supposedly Cancelled

[Juggs]

That's exactly the truth about creativity. MK1's meta was defined by hard to blockables still to this day is it not?

Let's not escape the fact that Lao Kameo gave everyone HTB's

Last time I checked HTB's are worse than 5050s no?

Since, ya know the term means close to an unblockable? HTB? but this is what I find contradictory with majority of the Mk community. You (not you, just in general) shit on MKXL for mix but praise MK1 and it's HTB's

Shit don't make no damn sense.

I don’t think people are necessarily praising MK1’s meta/competitive gameplay. I think the issue that’s being pointed out is that people are saying that MK1’s meta is “less creative” or “worse” competitively compared to previous NRS games, when these games actually weren’t much different when it comes to the outcomes. I personally hate both MKX AND MK1’s competitive meta. Both games have setplay that is way too strong which leads to incredibly boring games to play and to watch.

 

[just_2swift]

I don’t think people are necessarily praising MK1’s meta/competitive gameplay. I think the issue that’s being pointed out is that people are saying that MK1’s meta is “less creative” or “worse” competitively compared to previous NRS games, when these games actually weren’t much different when it comes to the outcomes. I personally hate both MKX AND MK1’s competitive meta. Both games have setplay that is way too strong which leads to incredibly boring games to play and to watch.

They have been talking down on MKXL when compared to MK1. Are you living under a rock juggy?

What competitive meta even exists with NRS games? Cause last time I checked MKXL patch was barely played and MF's jumped ship before the meta developed.

This is the case for all NRS titles.

MKXL can't be boring cause when injustice 2 failed MF's went back to MKXL

When MK11 failed MF's went back to MKXL

MKXL is the goat NRS game next to MK9

 

[ImpostorOak]

They have been talking down on MKXL when compared to MK1. Are you living under a rock juggy?

What competitive meta even exists with NRS games? Cause last time I checked MKXL patch was barely played and MF's jumped ship before the meta developed.

This is the case for all NRS titles.

MKXL can't be boring cause when injustice 2 failed MF's went back to MKXL

When MK11 failed MF's went back to MKXL

MKXL is the goat NRS game next to MK9

This is hilarious because your profile header is literally, "MK1 is the best MK period."

I agree that MKXL is the best MK, though. People who disagree can't react to run.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

That's all MK1 characters are designed to do HTB or bust.

In MKXL characters had more to them outside of mix-ups and that's what's missing in Mk1 which makes it boring to watch.

Uhm... plenty of characters are entirely NOT dependent on HTB's in MK1. I'd say the only ones who ARE are Mileena-Lao, Sindel-Lao/Tremor, Cyrax and Homelander/Tremor.

The rest of the cast either depends on (oh, the irony!) 50/50s to open people up (Reptile, Nitara, Smoke, Havik, Baraka, Ghostface, Scorpion-Ferra, Quan Chi, Sub-Zero), pressure (Johnny, Ermac, Liu Kang, Shao, Omni-man) or spacing and whiff punishing (Ashrah, Homelander without Tremor, Geras, Li Mei, Takeda, Tanya, Kenshi). There are also characters that can zone AND either whiff punish very well or pressure well (Sindel, Kitana, Reiko, Sektor).

All of that can also completely change if you pair different Kameos with the characters. I don't see how this makes it less creative than MKX - which, again, I am a fan of.

EDIT: Also friendly reminder that we also had HTBs in MKX with Quan Chi, Cyber Sub, Takeda, Alien and Tremor, and back then we didn't have MK1's system of "autoblock when overhead and low hit on the same frame window", which made them, well, harder to blockables lol.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I don’t think people are necessarily praising MK1’s meta/competitive gameplay. I think the issue that’s being pointed out is that people are saying that MK1’s meta is “less creative” or “worse” competitively compared to previous NRS games, when these games actually weren’t much different when it comes to the outcomes. I personally hate both MKX AND MK1’s competitive meta. Both games have setplay that is way too strong which leads to incredibly boring games to play and to watch.

The combos also last as long as old MKX pre-nerf grenade Sonya

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

The combos also last as long as old MKX pre-nerf grenade Sonya

This IMO is a symptom of people hating MK11's approach to shorter combos and less combo liberty. Personally, I'd take long combos any day instead of the bore-fest of MK11.

 

[ImpostorOak]

It's honestly wild to me that people want long combos. Creative Combos are fun, but long combos are superfulous and tedious to do and complete vibe killers to recieve for most players. Long combos are casual kryptonite.

Also, the MKX comparison is so fucking disingenuous. MKX had HTBs but they required setup and decent execution to not be stuffed by a poke or just blown up by armor. MK1 is completely different, it's easy as fuck to just end any combo in Kameo. Shit like Lao Low hat is braindead shit. Even if it's not the strongest tool in the game, it's too strong for how easy it is to do. That's MK1 in a nutshell for me. Everything is too easy to do for how good it is. It's too hard to tell when I'm fighting a good player.

Anyways, That's a tangent, my bad.

 

[Eddy Wang]

This IMO is a symptom of people hating MK11's approach to shorter combos and less combo liberty. Personally, I'd take long combos any day instead of the bore-fest of MK11.

If there is one thing MK11 was definitely terrible at was combo creativity, but NRS have themselves to blame for that, they destroyed the combo structure they had improved previously from MK vs DC to MKXL which is

1. Characters have meterless launchers
2. Characters have exetensions via NJPs, capture and restands
3. characters could do enders, which would lead to restands, knockdowns, the later being soft or hard knds

NRS removed all that from the game, and then they added breakaway, and added a meter that builds itself overtime

obviously the combo system turned into shit

 

[Eddy Wang]

It's honestly wild to me that people want long combos. Creative Combos are fun, but long combos are superfulous and tedious to do and complete vibe killers to recieve for most players. Long combos are casual kryptonite.

Also, the MKX comparison is so fucking disingenuous. MKX had HTBs but they required setup and decent execution to not be stuffed by a poke or just blown up by armor. MK1 is completely different, it's easy as fuck to just end any combo in Kameo. Shit like Lao Low hat is braindead shit. Even if it's not the strongest tool in the game, it's too strong for how easy it is to do. That's MK1 in a nutshell for me. Everything is too easy to do for how good it is. It's too hard to tell when I'm fighting a good player.

Anyways, That's a tangent, my bad.

By the time they finish the combo, you have time to drop the controller, make a cofee and come back before the knockdown happens, the time p2 gets to stare at the screen while eating damage it's insane, no wonder ppl breaks off all the time, bros want to press "buttonz" too

it definitely needs a middle ground, maybe structured better, but i think the Kameo formula won't stick for MK2, at least i hope.

 

[Juxtapose]

If there is one thing MK11 was definitely terrible at was combo creativity, but NRS have themselves to blame for that, they destroyed the combo structure they had improved previously from MK vs DC to MKXL which is

The common complaints for Mortal Kombat X where that the game was too offensive and 50/50 based, Metre building was unbalanced between the cast, and the game had absolutely no neutral. Here on Test Your Might, these were common things I was seeing all through 2015 and 2016.

During the Kombat Kast's, NetherRealm specified they took a different design approach with Mortal Kombat 11 as a result. The game was more defensive, very neutral focused, and there was universal Gauge instead of the previous style of Metre.

Whether you liked what they did or not is up to you, of course, but that was the reasoning behind it all, and considering the continued complaints they were getting about Mortal Kombat X, I do understand why they went this path.

 

[Vulgar]

It's honestly wild to me that people want long combos. Creative Combos are fun, but long combos are superfulous and tedious to do and complete vibe killers to recieve for most players. Long combos are casual kryptonite.

Also, the MKX comparison is so fucking disingenuous. MKX had HTBs but they required setup and decent execution to not be stuffed by a poke or just blown up by armor. MK1 is completely different, it's easy as fuck to just end any combo in Kameo. Shit like Lao Low hat is braindead shit. Even if it's not the strongest tool in the game, it's too strong for how easy it is to do. That's MK1 in a nutshell for me. Everything is too easy to do for how good it is. It's too hard to tell when I'm fighting a good player.

Anyways, That's a tangent, my bad.

I understand that this is all very emotionally charged stuff, but it's pretty clear that I'm watching a good player when I watch someone like say, Kanimani vs watching someone grind out KL sets vs Randoms.

I can't imagine a scenario where I couldn't tell the difference between a good player and a bad one.

As far as difficulty of set up goes, I could do Quan Chi Summoner HTBs after a knockdown with a bat and an NJP.

Which isn't super materially different from cutting a combo short with Lao hat. "Set up" in fighting games usually means tenths of a second.

 

[Vulgar]

By the time they finish the combo, you have time to drop the controller, make a cofee and come back before the knockdown happens, the time p2 gets to stare at the screen while eating damage it's insane, no wonder ppl breaks off all the time, bros want to press "buttonz" too

it definitely needs a middle ground, maybe structured better, but i think the Kameo formula won't stick for MK2, at least i hope.

I don't see a problem with longer combos, especially since this is specifically what people asked for. The amount of options you have during launches is very impressive, and a far cry from the shorter combos everyone complained about with MK11.

 

[Vulgar]

If there is one thing MK11 was definitely terrible at was combo creativity, but NRS have themselves to blame for that, they destroyed the combo structure they had improved previously from MK vs DC to MKXL which is

1. Characters have meterless launchers
2. Characters have exetensions via NJPs, capture and restands
3. characters could do enders, which would lead to restands, knockdowns, the later being soft or hard knds

NRS removed all that from the game, and then they added breakaway, and added a meter that builds itself overtime

obviously the combo system turned into shit

MK11 had all of those things except NJPs, holy revisionism, Batman.

 

[Juxtapose]

MK11 had all of those things except NJPs, holy revisionism, Batman.

Many characters did need Offensive Gauge to launch. There were a few that didn't, i.e. Kitana (my main).

 

[Vulgar]

Many characters did need Offensive Gauge to launch. There were a few that didn't, i.e. Kitana (my main).

True. Geras would be another example.

But to say that NRS threw all of those things out with MK11 is disingenuous.

 

[ImpostorOak]

I understand that this is all very emotionally charged stuff, but it's pretty clear that I'm watching a good player when I watch someone like say, Kanimani vs watching someone grind out KL sets vs Randoms.

I can't imagine a scenario where I couldn't tell the difference between a good player and a bad one.

Did I say I couldn't tell, or did I say it's too hard to tell? You continue to prove you either can't comprehend what you read, or do not care to engage in good faith conversations.

Instigation should be punished as much as retaliation, and you constantly pick apart my posts no matter how many times I tell you I wish not to engage with you.

You take criticisms of the game as personal attacks, that says a lot. Get help, baby. kisses and hugs Merry Christmas!

 

[Vulgar]

Did I say I couldn't tell, or did I say it's too hard to tell? You continue to prove you either can't comprehend what you read, or do not care to engage in good faith conversations.

Instigation should be punished as much as retaliation, and you constantly pick apart my posts no matter how many times I tell you I wish not to engage with you.

You take criticisms of the game as personal attacks, that says a lot. Get help, baby. kisses and hugs Merry Christmas!

I'm allowed to comment on arguments I disagree with.

The ignore button is free. I've no idea what you're so angry about.

It shouldn't be, "too hard to tell."

For example:

If it's "too hard to tell" what Rewind playing Ermac looks like vs Catfukker69, that burden may be on the observer.

 

[ImpostorOak]

I'm allowed to comment on arguments I disagree with.

The ignore button is free. I've no idea what you're so angry about.

It shouldn't be, "too hard to tell."

For example:

If it's "too hard to tell" what Rewind playing Ermac looks like vs Catfukker69, that burden may be on the observer.

Stop with your high school girl bullshit. I'm not angry. I think you're a clown so I talk to you like you're a worthless fool. That does not mean I'm angry. You display a lot of narcissistic traits when communicating. You don't know how others feel. This is typical immature troll shit. Like I'd expect it from a 15 yo TikTok brain rotted invalid.

This argument is a fucking strawman. I didn't imply this. This is what your fucking stupid confrontation seeking ass wants to push as a narrative to rile me up and try to pull a "gotcha". It's hard to tell if Catfucker is decent, average, or ass. You think otherwise? That's because you play the easiest FG in the world and are convinced you're good at it. You're one of the players I've had a hard time telling if they were ass or average, by the way.

You're embarrassing, man.

 

[Vulgar]

Stop with your high school girl bullshit. I'm not angry. I think you're a clown so I talk to you like you're a worthless fool. That does not mean I'm angry. You display a lot of narcissistic traits when communicating. You don't know how others feel. This is typical immature troll shit. Like I'd expect it from a 15 yo TikTok brain rotted invalid.

This argument is a fucking strawman. I didn't imply this. This is what your fucking stupid confrontation seeking ass wants to push as a narrative to rile me up and try to pull a "gotcha". It's hard to tell if Catfucker is decent, average, or ass. You think otherwise? That's because you play the easiest FG in the world and are convinced you're good at it. You're one of the players I've had a hard time telling I'd they were ass or average, by the way.

You're embarrassing, man.

Do you have a quote where I said I was especially good at the game?

You do this a lot. These strange pop psychology diagnosies and weird personal insults when I was only disagreeing with you.

I didn't even misrepresent what you said. You think it's hard to know who is actually good in game. Now youre moving the goal post over some weird, personal online crusade you have against me. It's very upsetting.

I'm just trying to talk about Mortal Kombat.

 

[Eddy Wang]

The common complaints for Mortal Kombat X where that the game was too offensive and 50/50 based, Metre building was unbalanced between the cast, and the game had absolutely no neutral. Here on Test Your Might, these were common things I was seeing all through 2015 and 2016.

During the Kombat Kast's, NetherRealm specified they took a different design approach with Mortal Kombat 11 as a result. The game was more defensive, very neutral focused, and there was universal Gauge instead of the previous style of Metre.

Whether you liked what they did or not is up to you, of course, but that was the reasoning behind it all, and considering the continued complaints they were getting about Mortal Kombat X, I do understand why they went this path.

i'm not a huge fan of MKX either, specially with the long reaching normals, corner to corner carry and of course 50-50s all the time, actually MK11 would've been better with a bit more dynamism combos and not an autofill meter imo.
I can totally understand the direction they went, what i currently believe is, NRS can find a middle ground for it's combos, i still think MK9 is where it was at and that formula for some things it was good.

it's really just how they build their system and their characters in such system, as i've been said time and time again, since Ermac, every single DLC has been a banger, only wish it was like this from the beginning with the entire cast, but they definitely are maturing their designs in this system

 

[Eddy Wang]

MK11 had all of those things except NJPs, holy revisionism, Batman.

Yeah, it also had breakaways and 300% damage crushing blows as combos for some, and breakaways for escaping combos

 

[Vulgar]

i'm not a huge fan of MKX either, specially with the long reaching normals, corner to corner carry and of course 50-50s all the time, actually MK11 would've been better with a bit more dynamism combos and not an autofill meter imo.
I can totally understand the direction they went, what i currently belieave is, NRS can find a middle ground for it's combos, i still think MK9 is where it was at and that formula for some things it was good.

it's really just how they build their system and their characters in such system, as i've been said time and time again, since Ermac, every single DLC has been a banger, only wich it was like this from the beginning with the entire cast, but they definitely are maturing their designs in this system

I actually agree with a lot of this. Also, I think a lot of what makes combos fun - long or short - has to do with sound design. Hits don't feel as good audio wise as they did in XL.

 

[Vulgar]

Yeah, it also had breakaways and 300% damage crushing blows as combos for some, and breakaways for escaping combos

So you don't like MK11. Shocking news, really.

 

[Eddy Wang]

So you don't like MK11. Shocking news, really.

I did enjoyed for what i was, specially ultimate, it was one of my guilty pleasures, the system could definitely be improved instead of being scrapped, i have a lot more about this on my opinion thread.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

It's honestly wild to me that people want long combos. Creative Combos are fun, but long combos are superfulous and tedious to do and complete vibe killers to recieve for most players. Long combos are casual kryptonite.

Also, the MKX comparison is so fucking disingenuous. MKX had HTBs but they required setup and decent execution to not be stuffed by a poke or just blown up by armor. MK1 is completely different, it's easy as fuck to just end any combo in Kameo. Shit like Lao Low hat is braindead shit. Even if it's not the strongest tool in the game, it's too strong for how easy it is to do. That's MK1 in a nutshell for me. Everything is too easy to do for how good it is. It's too hard to tell when I'm fighting a good player.

Anyways, That's a tangent, my bad.

There was absolutely nothing hard about hitting someone with Quan Chi and summoning the Bat into HTBs, or just doing portal into armored 50/50 after getting them into trance. Same for Cyber Sub - you end a combo with a splat divekick and get a bomb for FREE in the corner while also getting the b3 string started, for free, that would armor break. Same for Takeda's EX kunais into midscreen normal overhead. Konjurer Alien could be a bit trickier to set up, but still, nothing terribly "execution heavy". I will agree that the MKX Cyrax and Kitana combos could be obnoxious, but I still take those over what MK11 had. A middle term would be welcome though, for sure.