MK1 Tier List Discussion Thread

[LEGEND]

Thanks for the reply!

I don't think Geras being negative on strings matters much since Motaro makes you plus, and with Motaro's buffed recharge time, you should always have him. When you don't, you should be zoning/charging clocks. For the Command Grab, true, it's not the best, and if that was the only mix he had it would be pretty ass. However, since he has a very good Low and an improved OH, the Command Grab being an option too is very hard for the opponent to predict due to the mental stack going on. And his Low Sand move is just a great footsie tool all around which doesn't expose him to punishment. 100% agree on the lame play being a necessity though, which isn't for a lot a people, and also agree that a fair number of the character designs in MK1, while cool., aren't the best from a gameplay perspective (I'm looking at you no pushblock against Kenshi in the corner).

For Sub, yeah, I think Sub's just had a weird history with this game, being so much better in the beta to that point that people really wrote him off early on. Also, his way of winning isn't the most intuitive, kind of like Geras, so if people only try him for a bit, it can seem like he sucks, especially since he often needs to vary his kameos heavily based on the MU (see my other post). However, due to the nature of the kameo system, he's extremely viable. Khameleon was the beginning of this being more obvious for sure, and you can see very deep runs in tournaments, including Evo, from Arrona using this pairing. But with the release of other kameos too and the improvements to klone (it's range is actually kind of insane now), Sub has a number of good options in MUs. This mainly stems from either him having a really good armored launcher (Janet, Sonya), good safe mix (Sonya), or meterless Slide combos (Scorpion, Jane), which serves as an amazing whiff punish, btw. And that's not even getting into his many setplay options (Janet, Sonya, Darrius, bit of Lao from before).

Anyway, like I said in my first post, I know the feelings on Sub can run deep for many, so not looking to convert, just sharing what I've found from maining him since release while also playing most of the rest of the cast. I should make a tier list myself here soon, or at least a Sub Zero MU chart, to put my money where my mouth is, but either way, like I said before, good chatting!

Good to hear an in-depth perspective on Sub. I might be alittle biased because I feel like Shang shits on him. (particularly Shang/Mavado with easy conversions when punishing ice clone and zoning) and I haven't seen or played against a Scoprion or Janet pairing which does actually sounds scary to zone against. A ranged threat is something I really feel he lacks, so if that slide can be used to wiff punish reliably for good damage than that is something I need to consider. But then he loses all up close threat so idk.
-
Back to Geras: I don't think any of his strings cancel into Motaro without a punishable gap, could be wrong. But more importantly is how bad he is on wiff and how exposed he is when doing anything. His B4 is good but doesn't lead to much, and at least some matchups can punish out-spaced B4 use very hard. His damage output and high functional health pool are his saving graces, idk how to really evaluate that in comparison to just straight up lacking tools to play the game. He could be alittle better than I give him credit for, but I don't see any scenario where he's better than anyone in the "has everything" tier.

 

[wsj515]

Back to Geras: I don't think any of his strings cancel into Motaro without a punishable gap, could be wrong. But more importantly is how bad he is on wiff and how exposed he is when doing anything. His B4 is good but doesn't lead to much, and at least some matchups can punish out-spaced B4 use very hard. His damage output and high functional health pool are his saving graces, idk how to really evaluate that in comparison to just straight up lacking tools to play the game. He could be alittle better than I give him credit for, but I don't see any scenario where he's better than anyone in the "has everything" tier.

b1 and f24 don't have punishable gaps canceled into motaro, without committing to armor - but still I think Geras struggles, and I think the "high functioning health pool" thing is really overblown as a strength. Some character / kameo pairings don't have great combo gaps to rewind out of, and every throw / non-combo mix situation is just that much scarier since you have base 900hp.

 

[OldManFGC]

Good to hear an in-depth perspective on Sub. I might be alittle biased because I feel like Shang shits on him. (particularly Shang/Mavado with easy conversions when punishing ice clone and zoning) and I haven't seen or played against a Scoprion or Janet pairing which does actually sounds scary to zone against. A ranged threat is something I really feel he lacks, so if that slide can be used to wiff punish reliably for good damage than that is something I need to consider. But then he loses all up close threat so idk.
-
Back to Geras: I don't think any of his strings cancel into Motaro without a punishable gap, could be wrong. But more importantly is how bad he is on wiff and how exposed he is when doing anything. His B4 is good but doesn't lead to much, and at least some matchups can punish out-spaced B4 use very hard. His damage output and high functional health pool are his saving graces, idk how to really evaluate that in comparison to just straight up lacking tools to play the game. He could be alittle better than I give him credit for, but I don't see any scenario where he's better than anyone in the "has everything" tier.

As a Shang + Mavado player myself , totally agree: old Shang shits on Klone when used as part of block pressure. But yeah, with Slide, Sub can beat out all Shang's zoning. Also, after the Slide combo, Sub is in a really good place with meaties, safe jumps, armor breaks, and safe 50/50s, some of which don't even have armorable gaps.

For Geras, I see somebody already answered about gaps (thanks fellow Kotal lover!), but maybe I am overestimating him. I think Motaro being able to teleport full screen now is huge, but I'll play him some more and see before making that tier list of my own. I tried Reptile recently and was like, oh, this poor character, lol, which is why I responded the way I did about him. Not that any character is actually bad in MK1, which is a nice change from previous games.

 

[M2Dave]

I have not seen a kameo tier list in a very long time, so here is my take after the most recent patch.



Some ideal characters for each kameo...

Cyrax - Rain
Darrius - ?
Ferra - Homelander, Nitara, Scorpion
Frost - Kenshi
Goro - ?
Janet - Ermac, Noob Saibot, Quan Chi
Jax - Kitana, Omni Man, Scorpion
Kano - Baraka
Khameleon - Cage, Liu Kang, Mileena
Kung Lao - Cage, Liu Kang, Mileena, Sindel
Mavado - Cage, Ghostface, Havik, Sektor
Motaro - Geras, Liu Kang, Sektor
Sareena - Ashrah, Quan Chi
Scorpion - Ghostface, Li Mei
Sektor - Kung Lao, Raiden, Shao Kahn
Shujinko - ?
Sonya - Kitana
Stryker - Kenshi
Sub Zero - Cyrax, Kenshi, Kitana, Rain
Tremor - Reiko, Sindel

 

[ImpostorOak]

Let's all argue

 

[ticklebandit!]

I haven’t played this game in months but I’m here to downplay havik and argue!! Has Johnny really fallen that low??? Has homelander really been tamed? Does he not still dominate neutral with that giant ass mid?? And finally, noob and sector were that much of a sleeper high tier? @ImpostorOak

 

[Red Lightning]

I haven’t played this game in months but I’m here to downplay havik and argue!! Has Johnny really fallen that low??? Has homelander really been tamed? Does he not still dominate neutral with that giant ass mid?? And finally, noob and sector were that much of a sleeper high tier? @ImpostorOak

Since you haven't played in months, you downplaying Havik doesn't hold much water. He has been massively buffed and is arguably top 1 right now with the recent Homelander nerf.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

View attachment 22155

Let's all argue

Sektor, Noob and Geras too high. Homelander, Cyrax and Ghostface too low.

Seriously, Ghostface has an infinite. Were it not for that, he is the safest character in the game with a 33/33/33 vortex. He can convert a full combo off a command grab with Scorpion and a full combo off a regular throw AND command grab with Mavado.


The rest is okay as most characters are at similar power levels and the discussion is much more matchup dependant.

 

[ImpostorOak]

Sektor, Noob and Geras too high. Homelander, Cyrax and Ghostface too low.

Seriously, Ghostface has an infinite. Were it not for that, he is the safest character in the game with a 33/33/33 vortex. He can convert a full combo off a command grab with Scorpion and a full combo off a regular throw AND command grab with Mavado.


The rest is okay as most characters are at similar power levels and the discussion is much more matchup dependant.

Have you seen Sonic's or MightyUnjusts Noob? Nah fam, he's broke broke. OH/Low/Throw mix-up leading to 50% damage is crazy.

The Ghostface and Cyrax up play is over, yall are getting hit by awful characters and then are mad that the awful character can do something when they get a hit. Get smart, those are mid characters. No neutral, all vortex. Low ass damage, too, without Hella resources.

Homelander is over. Just stand up.

Geras is buffed to greatness. I saw tick grabs OSs on Twitter that work on hit/block. Geras/Mavado is a top team.

Sektor is too low? Okay Mr. SMOKING CRACK.

 

[ImpostorOak]

I haven’t played this game in months but I’m here to downplay havik and argue!! Has Johnny really fallen that low??? Has homelander really been tamed? Does he not still dominate neutral with that giant ass mid?? And finally, noob and sector were that much of a sleeper high tier? @ImpostorOak

The buff to Noobs OH made him a legit mix monster with the highest damage off of mix in the game, besides maybe Nitara whose mix isn't as good.

Sektor I thought was godlike when she came out, but I got convinced by the hive mind that Sektor was mid and Cyrax was OD, but tbh, I always suspected and now feel more confident that Sektor is S.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Have you seen Sonic's or MightyUnjusts Noob? Nah fam, he's broke broke. OH/Low/Throw mix-up leading to 50% damage is crazy.

The Ghostface and Cyrax up play is over, yall are getting hit by awful characters and then are mad that the awful character can do something when they get a hit. Get smart, those are mid characters. No neutral, all vortex. Low ass damage, too, without Hella resources.

Homelander is over. Just stand up.

Geras is buffed to greatness. I saw tick grabs OSs on Twitter that work on hit/block. Geras/Mavado is a top team.

Sektor is too low? Okay Mr. SMOKING CRACK.

Noob has mediocre buttons and he is fuzzyguard: the character. Of course two of the best players in the world are making him look busted. Top 5 tho? Nah fam.

What exactly is "awful" about Ghostface?

• Has a long ass range mid, one of the best in the game.
• Has fast advancing strings which can full combo punish a careless counterpoke attempt.
• Has damage off of every possible touch. Sweep, overhead, command grab and throw.
• 1 bar spent makes him UNPUNISHABLE EVEN IF YOU READ EVERYTHING CORRECTLY.
• Again, has an inescapable infinite in the current patch.

Low ass damage? You get at least 35% for a vortex that is, at worse case scenario, SAFE, resetting neutral - which ghostface's is nothing to scoff at.

It is also extra ironic that you put Noob that high claiming he has precisely what ghostface has that makes him busted, yet Noob is top5 and Ghostface is mid? Ok then.

As for Cyrax, yeah, her neutral is mediocre - so is Kenshi's and he is up there in your tier list lol. Her nerf to the command grab made her more manageable, but she's still always 1 wrong guess away from putting you in a blender for not neutral ducking after a s1, or for not blocking a b3 after a s1.

Homelander still has all his mixes, space control, grab combos with Ferra and staggers. He just doesnt get a midscreen low for free now.

I'm not sure about Geras, but I am not impressed by the command grab chances alone, and with Mavado he is a glass cannon health-wise.

 

[ImpostorOak]

Noob has mediocre buttons and he is fuzzyguard: the character. Of course two of the best players in the world are making him look busted. Top 5 tho? Nah fam.

What exactly is "awful" about Ghostface?

• Has a long ass range mid, one of the best in the game.
• Has fast advancing strings which can full combo punish a careless counterpoke attempt.
• Has damage off of every possible touch. Sweep, overhead, command grab and throw.
• 1 bar spent makes him UNPUNISHABLE EVEN IF YOU READ EVERYTHING CORRECTLY.
• Again, has an inescapable infinite in the current patch.

Low ass damage? You get at least 35% for a vortex that is, at worse case scenario, SAFE, resetting neutral - which ghostface's is nothing to scoff at.

It is also extra ironic that you put Noob that high claiming he has precisely what ghostface has that makes him busted, yet Noob is top5 and Ghostface is mid? Ok then.

As for Cyrax, yeah, her neutral is mediocre - so is Kenshi's and he is up there in your tier list lol. Her nerf to the command grab made her more manageable, but she's still always 1 wrong guess away from putting you in a blender for not neutral ducking after a s1, or for not blocking a b3 after a s1.

Homelander still has all his mixes, space control, grab combos with Ferra and staggers. He just doesnt get a midscreen low for free now.

I'm not sure about Geras, but I am not impressed by the command grab chances alone, and with Mavado he is a glass cannon health-wise.

You're joking, and I get it. But for those reading let me clarify.

How did Ghostface make you whiff a button? That mid is fucking slow, too, btw. What does he do midscreen besides f2? His non-kira OH is slow as fuck, too, so how are you getting mixed? And he has no plus frames, so why are you letting him grab you? If you mean once already in the vortex, how did you get hit to start that vortex? 35% is low damage in this game. The infinite is a bug, I'm not considering it. It will be patched. You've admitted you don't even own the character, so I know you haven't labbed. He isn't that great, he's solid but not busted. Same with Cyrax. The vortex has yall really pressed, but it's the same song and dance. Wait a week and everyone will know the counter play and realize how you beat both of those character by walking backwards. Lmfao.

The situation Kenshi puts you in is far more oppressive than the one Ghostface or Cyrax puts you in. His neutral is about the same as Ghostface, but with more reward for getting the hit. Kenshis Neutral shits all over Cyraxs. Ghostface and Cyrax are still good characters, but there's no way they are better than the ones put above them in my list.

Homelander has strike throw, now. That's not very mix-y for someone with a lot of mix.

Geras was slept on before, and he's 3x as effective now.

I'm not gonna argue about Noob. You're smoking deep fried 80's Crack if you think he doesn't have everything you're saying Ghostface does WITH better buttons and specials. Noob/Janet is gonna get real popular real fast.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

You're joking, and I get it. But for those reading let me clarify.

How did Ghostface make you whiff a button? That mid is fucking slow, too, btw. What does he do midscreen besides f2? His non-kira OH is slow as fuck, too, so how are you getting mixed? And he has no plus frames, so why are you letting him grab you? If you mean once already in the vortex, how did you get hit to start that vortex? 35% is low damage in this game. The infinite is a bug, I'm not considering it. It will be patched. You've admitted you don't even own the character, so I know you haven't labbed. He isn't that great, he's solid but not busted. Same with Cyrax. The vortex has yall really pressed, but it's the same song and dance. Wait a week and everyone will know the counter play and realize how you beat both of those character by walking backwards. Lmfao.

The situation Kenshi puts you in is far more oppressive than the one Ghostface or Cyrax puts you in. His neutral is about the same as Ghostface, but with more reward for getting the hit. Kenshis Neutral shits all over Cyraxs. Ghostface and Cyrax are still good characters, but there's no way they are better than the ones put above them in my list.

Homelander has strike throw, now. That's not very mix-y for someone with a lot of mix.

Geras was slept on before, and he's 3x as effective now.

I'm not gonna argue about Noob. You're smoking deep fried 80's Crack if you think he doesn't have everything you're saying Ghostface does WITH better buttons and specials. Noob/Janet is gonna get real popular real fast.

My guy, ghostface has a tick throw. That can also be cancelled into an overhead. That is how you get in the blender for 35% safe vortexes with no chance for a combo punish even if you guess right. You also act like mental stack isn't a thing and he will never hit you with his regular "slow ass overhead" - most overheads in the game are slow and do a perfectly fine job of opening people up, and that is without the threat of having to block a sweep that also leads into a combo.

Also, I dont own the character, but the replay function lets you lab characters you don't own so yeah, there's that.

His sweep will make you whiff a button, if correctly spaced.

Cyrax has been out for some time now and is doing just fine on the highest level of play - ZEEUS went top 3 in with her in the last latin league pro tour thing by warner play this month. She is honestly a character I see being a little better on the tier list than "mid", but I have no problem with agreeing to disagree here.

As for homelander, it is a little unfair calling it "strike throw" when the "throw" leads into a full combo punish, imo. And there's the elephant in the room called Homelander/Tremor if you want something other than Ferra. There's the cheeky poke into flight into overhead, that I guarantee you are not blocking on reaction every time, let alone upblocking it to punish. He is still a contender for at least top 6.

As for Noob, again, he is fuzzyable on most things except 4 into overhead/slide into EX ghostball setups. Of course, mental stack exists and you will get clipped by the lows and overheads, but overall his buttons have lots of startup, are heavily telegraphed and he gets punished hard for throwing projectiles willy-nilly, which doesn't help him at all. But fine by me if you think he is top 5 shrugs.

 

[ImpostorOak]

My guy, ghostface has a tick throw. That can also be cancelled into an overhead. That is how you get in the blender for 35% safe vortexes with no chance for a combo punish even if you guess right. You also act like mental stack isn't a thing and he will never hit you with his regular "slow ass overhead" - most overheads in the game are slow and do a perfectly fine job of opening people up, and that is without the threat of having to block a sweep that also leads into a combo.

Also, I dont own the character, but the replay function lets you lab characters you don't own so yeah, there's that.

His sweep will make you whiff a button, if correctly spaced.

Cyrax has been out for some time now and is doing just fine on the highest level of play - ZEEUS went top 3 in with her in the last latin league pro tour thing by warner play this month. She is honestly a character I see being a little better on the tier list than "mid", but I have no problem with agreeing to disagree here.

As for homelander, it is a little unfair calling it "strike throw" when the "throw" leads into a full combo punish, imo. And there's the elephant in the room called Homelander/Tremor if you want something other than Ferra. There's the cheeky poke into flight into overhead, that I guarantee you are not blocking on reaction every time, let alone upblocking it to punish. He is still a contender for at least top 6.

As for Noob, again, he is fuzzyable on most things except 4 into overhead/slide into EX ghostball setups. Of course, mental stack exists and you will get clipped by the lows and overheads, but overall his buttons have lots of startup, are heavily telegraphed and he gets punished hard for throwing projectiles willy-nilly, which doesn't help him at all. But fine by me if you think he is top 5 shrugs.

Some of the things you say aren't true. So I don't know how to debate you.

Ghostface has a d1 and d3 tick, but neither cancels to the OH? Unless you mean d1, stance, then throw? Then that's not a tick throw. That OH leads to nothing and is even slower than the one that does combo start. Also, what you're arguing makes Ghostface so good is the same thing you're arguing to make Noob seem worse, just talking out of both sides of your mouth. But okay.

I'll also say, Homelander is 11 on my list. Ghostface and Cyrax are top 15. These are all great characters. I think I'd rather fight any of the three of them than Havik, Nitara, Scorpion, Sindel, Sektor, Noob, etc.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Some of the things you say aren't true. So I don't know how to debate you.

Ghostface has a d1 and d3 tick, but neither cancels to the OH? Unless you mean d1, stance, then throw? Then that's not a tick throw. That OH leads to nothing and is even slower than the one that does combo start. Also, what you're arguing makes Ghostface so good is the same thing you're arguing to make Noob seem worse, just talking out of both sides of your mouth. But okay.

I'll also say, Homelander is 11 on my list. Ghostface and Cyrax are top 15. These are all great characters. I think I'd rather fight any of the three of them than Havik, Nitara, Scorpion, Sindel, Sektor, Noob, etc.

Yes, what I am refering to is the fact that he can cancel into stance from any button. It's not like Kotal's d1 into throw in MKX/MK11, but you can cancel the stance into the overhead to catch whomever is trying to microduck and punish the grabs - which, when paired with scorpion, put you in the vortex.

Also, you are literally pointing out what I just said about Noob and Ghostface in the previous post, but not elaborating why you seem to have the inverse opinion. Noob doesnt have a stance, nor a grab that leads into unscaled combos. His mixes are more manageable and telegraphed and, more importantly, some of them (not all) can be full combo punished - Ghostface is impervious to combo punishes as long as he has spent one bar. This is huge.

Noob has more damage in a single combo, yes, but doesnt have the same reset into combo situations except if you have Janet and spend all your kameo bar + 1 bar - even so, you can guess correctly and punish him, while your reward for guessing correctly vs Ghostface is poking him out of his kira/kobra switch.

I'm just not convinced Noob is all that shit to be at a top 6 spot, nor am I convinced that Ghostface is in the middle, but at this point I see no issue with us both just agreeing we have different views on what makes each character be good or not that much. Tier lists are personal and subjective after all.

 

[LEGEND]

Is Shang the only character that's been bottom tier for the entire life of the game?

 

[Krasiox]

I don't think he ever was bottom tier in this game. Hes solid but not broke, hes a really decent zoner now.

 

[M2Dave]

View attachment 22155

Let's all argue

S tier - I would replace Noob and Sektor with Cage and Kenshi.

A+ tier - After the buffs, Geras needs more time to develop in order to be considered A+. The nerfs to Homelander also need to settle, but I temporarily agree that he belongs in A+. However, I would move Ashrah down to A.

A tier - I fail to see how Sub Zero is better and/or on the same terms as characters like Cyrax, Ghostface, Liu Kang, Mileena, Reiko, and Shao. I would move all of these characters to A+ and Sub Zero to B. I am not convinced that NRS has a direction for Sub Zero.

B tier - I would move Baraka, Kung Lao, Omni Man, Rain, and Smoke to A tier. Out of these characters, OnlineCale is performing magic with Kung Lao/Sektor in online tournaments, so Kung Lao could even be higher than A tier. The low tier characters are arguably Peacemaker, Raiden, Reptile, Shang Tsung, Sub Zero, Takeda, and Tanya, but my knowledge on these characters is limited, especially Takeda and Tanya, because you rarely see them in online tournaments.

 

[ImpostorOak]

@M2Dave @Felipe_Gewehr It may also be of note that my tier list is indeed my subjective perspective. I play Cyrax, Ghostface, Ermac, Liu Kang, and Takeda. I also play exclusively online these days.

Also, jokes aren't funny when you explain them, but I've put Takeda as bottom one since his release. I personally think he's bad, but I've been downplaying him hoping it catches on and he can get some Nitara/Havik level buffs.

Sub-Zero is a great character. Scrub Zero has been controversial in every MK I've taken seriously, and I love that about him. Hot Take: If your main doesn't have armor that launches or garuntees armor breaking Oki, Sub is top 15. Sub/Khameleon has always been downplayed, IMO. I could concede that he's not quite as strong as being in a tier with Cyrax/Ghostface sort of implies, but I do think characters like Liu Kang and Cyrax are very upplayed as well. Liu has been power crept at this point.

I'm gonna pick up Noob and do my best to show yall the vision. Ghostface having infinite made him icky to me, anyways.

 

[Krasiox]

View attachment 22155

Let's all argue

Mileena too low
Shao too low
Liu too low
Rest is fine

 

[ImpostorOak]

Mileena too low
Shao too low
Liu too low
Rest is fine

Interested to hear how High you'd put Mileena and Shao. Those are two characters I go back and forth on constantly. They both seem great to me. High damage, great space controlling normals and fast specials that combo start, decent frames, and a few decent mixups. Mileenas D1 seems stupid broke, too, as well as Shao's jump 2. BUT they seem to get mashed on easy, and don't have the most dirt outside of staggers and mix. I'm very uncertain of those two specifically. I started to put Mileena in A+, personally.

Liu is overrated. His throw OS is carrying him. He's too honest in this game.

 

[Krasiox]

Liu Motaro is a very very strong team. Basically safe pokes the whole round into stagers upclose and guess, throw os carrying him is quite enough for him to be a good character imo.
For Mileena and Shao, yeah maybe they struggle against pokes but every character that doesn't have poke specials is a good MU for them.
Unless youre playing Johnny Mileena can whif punish half your buttons with ball roll and has insane screen controll, armor tp, htb teams, ex projectile launcher teams, and insane dmg. Someone pointed out Mileenas performance in tournaments in a topic, don't want to go back to it but her pick rate is quite high.
Shao just has solid tools all around and very strong mix plus his s2 is one of the best buttons in the game, his armor is one the weaker side but he synergises with alot of kameos which is why i think he is a good and diverse character. All 3 of these characters also beat every other characters in that A tier imo

 

[ImpostorOak]

Liu Motaro is a very very strong team. Basically safe pokes the whole round into stagers upclose and guess, throw os carrying him is quite enough for him to be a good character imo.
For Mileena and Shao, yeah maybe they struggle against pokes but every character that doesn't have poke specials is a good MU for them.
Unless youre playing Johnny Mileena can whif punish half your buttons with ball roll and has insane screen controll, armor tp, htb teams, ex projectile launcher teams, and insane dmg. Someone pointed out Mileenas performance in tournaments in a topic, don't want to go back to it but her pick rate is quite high.
Shao just has solid tools all around and very strong mix plus his s2 is one of the best buttons in the game, his armor is one the weaker side but he synergises with alot of kameos which is why i think he is a good and diverse character. All 3 of these characters also beat every other characters in that A tier imo

Fair points.
I still think Liu isn't A+ material, but maybe the best of A tier. I definitely see the point for Mileena and somewhat for Shao as well.

 

[OldManFGC]

@M2Dave @Felipe_Gewehr It may also be of note that my tier list is indeed my subjective perspective. I play Cyrax, Ghostface, Ermac, Liu Kang, and Takeda. I also play exclusively online these days.

Also, jokes aren't funny when you explain them, but I've put Takeda as bottom one since his release. I personally think he's bad, but I've been downplaying him hoping it catches on and he can get some Nitara/Havik level buffs.

Sub-Zero is a great character. Scrub Zero has been controversial in every MK I've taken seriously, and I love that about him. Hot Take: If your main doesn't have armor that launches or garuntees armor breaking Oki, Sub is top 15. Sub/Khameleon has always been downplayed, IMO. I could concede that he's not quite as strong as being in a tier with Cyrax/Ghostface sort of implies, but I do think characters like Liu Kang and Cyrax are very upplayed as well. Liu has been power crept at this point.

I'm gonna pick up Noob and do my best to show yall the vision. Ghostface having infinite made him icky to me, anyways.

Sub is a great character, and you've got him in a pretty good spot. He could honestly be higher even, it's just a lot of players don't maximize his strengths in this game.

 

[Baconlord]

View attachment 22155

Let's all argue

the Sektor upplay is crazy. Also the takeda downplay is wild.