Most technical/Least Technical characters

[chrisisnice]

I was thinking of trying another couple of characters to mess around with - one easy to pick up and play and another more difficult to master for a little fun. So to help me out... who do you consider the most technical/challenging character to master and how is the easiest to pick up and play? Tier list placement does not matter.

 

[Jynks]

I think Kenshi is pretty hard to use, and I think Ashara is pretty easy to use.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I was thinking of trying another couple of characters to mess around with - one easy to pick up and play and another more difficult to master for a little fun. So to help me out... who do you consider the most technical/challenging character to master and how is the easiest to pick up and play? Tier list placement does not matter.

Geras is difficult from a "damn I have to remember all this shit?" Standpoint
Smoke is difficult in his execution

Both are extremely fun and rewarding characters tho

 

[Jynks]

Smoke is difficult in his execution

smoke might be difficult to execute in a top player way, but he is easy as hell for the casual to just jump about and 50/50 people. I would have thought he'd be put into a list for beginner players to try out.

 

[Eldriken]

I'd say Reiko is not technical at all.

Bonk heads, kick legs, throw shurikens and grab.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I would say Baraka, Liu Kang, Kung Lao and perhaps Johnny are the least technical (in the sense that they are easy to pickup and have an effective gameplan without having to do weird unorthodox things).

The most technical I would say are Geras and Shang Tsung, with the sheer number of extra mechanics around their gameplan.
Smoke I wouldn't say is "technical", but his entire gameplan revolves around you successfully doing the cancels - a SINGLE mis-input will get you punished for a full combo. He has some "smoke and mirrors" with his invisibility setups as well.

Honorable mentions for "technical characters" to General Shao (axe shenanigans), Takeda (ground shurikens), and Cyrax (bomb setups).

 

[PrinceGoro]

Ermac is up there with the technical ones for sure.

 

[M2Dave]

My hot take on every character in terms of low, mid, and high execution as well as gameplan while using the ideal kameo.

Ashrah - low
Baraka - low
Cyrax - mid
Ermac - high
Geras - high
Ghostface - (prediction) mid or high
Havik - mid
Homelander - low
Johnny Cage - low
Kenshi - high
Kitana - mid
Kung Lao - low
Li Mei - high
Liu Kang - low
Mileena - low
Nitara - mid
Noob - mid
Omni Man - low
Peacemaker - low
Quan Chi - mid
Raiden - low
Rain - mid
Reiko - mid
Reptile - low
Takeda - mid
Sektor - mid
Scorpion - low
Shang Tsung - high
Shao Kahn - mid
Sindel - mid
Smoke - mid
Sub Zero - low
Takeda - mid
Tanya - low

 

[Eldriken]

snip

I definitely agree with this.

 

[wsj515]

I'd say Reiko is not technical at all.

Bonk heads, kick legs, throw shurikens and grab.

I actually think he can be really technical at the absolute highest level. He has a really low floor, but really high ceiling especially when you incorporate hitconfirming staggers into jailng b2s, spacing, etc.

 

[Juggs]

I’d say there are several characters that, in certain circumstances, require relatively high execution. It’s just that it typically isn’t worth practicing getting the specific combos down consistently. Because even though you do get more damage, it typically isn’t worth the risk.

For instance, when it comes to Scorpion, his double consecutive s4’s juggle actually requires very high execution. Because you need to do a micro dash and cancel it with s4. The timing is strict though, idk the exact frames but the window has to be tight. And this can be done with his BnB’s and pretty much most of his combos. However, the damage difference isn’t significant so it isn’t really worth the risk and isn’t worth putting in a ton of time practicing it imo. There are some players that have great execution, like NinjaKilla, that these types of combos are worth it to practice. But for the most part, unless the damage difference is significant enough to be willing to risk dropping the combo, it generally isn’t worth it.

 

[Eldriken]

I’d say there are several characters that, in certain circumstances, require relatively high execution. It’s just that it typically isn’t worth practicing getting the specific combos down consistently. Because even though you do get more damage, it typically isn’t worth the risk.

For instance, when it comes to Scorpion, his double consecutive s4’s juggle actually requires very high execution. Because you need to do a micro dash and cancel it with s4. The timing is strict though, idk the exact frames but the window has to be tight. And this can be done with his BnB’s and pretty much most of his combos. However, the damage difference isn’t significant so it isn’t really worth the risk and isn’t worth putting in a ton of time practicing it imo. There are some players that have great execution, like NinjaKilla, that these types of combos are worth it to practice. But for the most part, unless the damage difference is significant enough to be willing to risk dropping the combo, it generally isn’t worth it.

My thoughts exactly. I prefer to not got for something fancy even if it adds a bit of extra damage. I'd rather keep it simple and just stick to what works and is entirely my fault if it drops.

 

[chrisisnice]

My hot take on every character in terms of low, mid, and high execution as well as gameplan while using the ideal kameo.

Li Mei - high

First of all, thanks for this.

I am a Li Mei main, so I probably do not realise why her execution / gameplan is considered high difficulty. Can you explain why?

Also, I have heard lots of people say Cyrax is high, but you list her as mid. I have not played her. Can you give me some of your thoughts?

 

[Juggs]

My thoughts exactly. I prefer to not got for something fancy even if it adds a bit of extra damage. I'd rather keep it simple and just stick to what works and is entirely my fault if it drops.

Exactly. That said, I will practice the harder ones that do a bit more damage just in case I’m in a situation where doing that extra bit will bail me out. But those situations are relatively rare, where I need exactly like 4-6% more damage to kill. And even then, I still will probably go for the easier combo because if it’s a combo that’s hard to do in practice mode against a dummy, it’s gonna be much harder to land in a match with the pressure of needing to land it in order to win on the line, lol.

Side note, I setup practice mode to have input delay. You can do this in the game settings in the main menu, and it makes playing online actually playable, for me at least

 

[Jynks]

My thoughts exactly. I prefer to not got for something fancy even if it adds a bit of extra damage. I'd rather keep it simple and just stick to what works and is entirely my fault if it drops.

I'm the exact opposite. I'm not a pro. I'm not playing for money. I am not even really that competitive. I just enjoy playing. Swag Combos are the main reason to do anything. I'd rather do a awesome invisible combo with reptile than a optimized boring on that dose twice the damage! That is why I still do rain portal drops all the time, as it is awsome! Better to drop the combo than not do something cool.

Swag is the entire point!

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I imagine that Shang/Shujinko would be the most complex team you could try and compete at a high level with.

It feels like you can't get crazier than having to learn the entire roster from two entirely different perspectives, on top of being cursed with the Freddy Krueger/Killer Frost Curse of having a DBF input mapped to a button that makes for multiple specials.
And on an official sidenote, while we're on this subject: I'll never understand the years-long artificial difficulty curve NRS creates by still doing things like that. Multiple specials on similar inputs, mashy button strings like MK11 Johnny, Jade, Kitana, Injustice 2 Poison Ivy, Kung Lao over the years...things that seem more like a pain in the ass than actual advancement of one's skill.

Smoke cancels? Feels just like MK9 Kabal, but more precise to land. Totally get it.
Ermac/Rain cancels? Reminiscent of MKX run cancel combos. I understand it. I'm biased because I think Killer Leatherface had the best cancel rhythm out of anyone NRS has ever made - input special, hit another face button, that's it, keep going - and it would have made things more accessible without making them Easy Mode to make that the norm, but the MKX feel of it all is real and appealing, and I respect it.

Having to stress whether or not my Far Fire is going to come out as Close or Mid, like you used to have to worry if you were going to drop your Far Claw (Freddy) or get a Spike instead of a command grab (Frost) feels like the easiest kind of thing to avoid, but here we remain. Could have given Shang the old DU/DB/DF4 and Cyrax the BB/FF/BBF4 and have a potentially bigger group of players sampling their wares, but maybe that's just me being old and biased.

This is a gripe I have had for over a decade but I can never figure out if I'm in the wrong or right.

 

[Juggs]

I imagine that Shang/Shujinko would be the most complex team you could try and compete at a high level with.

Shang definitely has some difficult combos. Like with the combo trials, his are some of the tougher ones for me. Can’t remember which combo # it is, but one of them you have to do a long string and midway through cancel it into his old/morph while also inputting the 3 fireball command, and you have to morph again in that same combo. It took me way too long to finally get that combo down.

The combo trials in general are pretty tough once you get to like #7 or so. And since they keep adding them every now and then, I think most characters have at least 10, some I believe have 11 and 12. If anyone hasn’t done them, I definitely recommend it.

 

[LEGEND]

Calling Geras or Shang high execution or highly technical feels a bit misleading

You can play them effectively after like 10 minutes in the lab. Simple and effective combo routes, straight forward gameplan. There is a ceiling to be achieved with both characters but if you're not trying to compete with them then Its totally not necessary.

You're basically at 90% potential with either Geras or Shang after a day of playing or labbing. You have to be a solo, dedicated main to squeeze out the minuscule amount of remaining juice. . . and still be low tier. If either interests you they are extremely easy to pick up and have fun with, and win games.

 

[LEGEND]

My hot take on every character in terms of low, mid, and high execution as well as gameplan while using the ideal kameo.

Ashrah - low
Baraka - low
Cyrax - mid
Ermac - high
Geras - high
Ghostface - (prediction) mid or high
Havik - mid
Homelander - low
Johnny Cage - low
Kenshi - high
Kitana - mid
Kung Lao - low
Li Mei - high
Liu Kang - low
Mileena - low
Nitara - mid
Noob - mid
Omni Man - low
Peacemaker - low
Quan Chi - mid
Raiden - low
Rain - mid
Reiko - mid
Reptile - low
Takeda - mid
Sektor - mid
Scorpion - low
Shang Tsung - high
Shao Kahn - mid
Sindel - mid
Smoke - mid
Sub Zero - low
Takeda - mid
Tanya - low

I think Lao's reliance on instant air hat and instant dive kick make him higher execution that the majority of the cast. And some of his BnBs are kinda mid range in difficulty.

 

[M2Dave]

First of all, thanks for this.

I am a Li Mei main, so I probably do not realise why her execution / gameplan is considered high difficulty. Can you explain why?

From what I have seen, Scorpion is still Li Mei's best kameo, but you have to know all the combos and conversions, which are not easy. There is also some decision making involved with regard to the use of super and kameo meter in combos.

Li Mei is also very stubby and susceptible to low poke mashing like General Shao. You can try reacting and whiff punishing with b,f+4, but there is an inherent risk as this move is very unsafe on block. Nonetheless, I feel like Li Mei players are forced to throw out random b,f+4s from time to time because b,f+4 is the only long range, mid-hitting option that she has in the neutral. While the risk is high, so is the reward.

I could provide further examples, but the group the grace is the reverse punish EX d,b+3, which no Li Mei player is doing consistently.

Is it even feasible to do consistently online?

Also, I have heard lots of people say Cyrax is high, but you list her as mid. I have not played her. Can you give me some of your thoughts?

I have not played as Cyrax either, but I can tell that Cyrax requires players to know the combos and setups to win with this character.

However, in the current meta (which will last for another 12 hours as of this post... LOL), there is no reason for "vortex players" to maximize Cyrax when Homelander exists.

Cyrax's win condition is hitting you whereas Homelander's win condition is being next to you.

I have lots more to say, which I will save for the podcast.

I think Lao's reliance on instant air hat and instant dive kick make him higher execution that the majority of the cast. And some of his BnBs are kinda mid range in difficulty.

Perhaps.

There is this Kung Lao/Sektor player named OnlineCale who performs very well in online tournaments.

The gameplay style is entirely atypical of what you would expect from Kung Lao.

I must stop thinking that this game has traditional archetypes, though. LOL.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

Low : The one the opp uses to kill mine
High: The one I cant win with

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

Low : The one the opp uses to kill mine
High: The one I cant win with

this joke never gets old

but I will admit my main, mileena, is my favorite because she’s very low skill floor and it doesn’t take much to optimize her damage. She can whiff punish easily, from a distance and with most of her moves at that. She can easily do 30-40% off of a touch, and her oki is solid. All this with no Kameo.
With ferra for example she can easily do 250+ off of a back throw.

mileena’s ease of use frees up the mental stack for kameos. Yes Dexydawg does amazing 1frame cancels that mere mortals should not attempt, but hourglass of rain gets solid results just playing fundamentals, and smart Oki with lao hat.
She easily gels with a variety of Kameos.

honestly I wouldn’t be opposed to them giving her an extra layer, like a feint maybe.

this is the first NRS era MK game I’ve seriously bought on launch and played seriously, so mileena kept it simple for me to leverage what I know from many years grinding guilty gear xrd. It was actually revelatory to play some of the more complex characters like Quan Chi, or Rain, or Geras, or Kenshi. They feel more expressive (if only Quan had access to Roman cancel!)

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

This combo route cheat sheet for Angel in KOF went viral on twitter because this is crazy. KOF is actually very fun and not as hard to jump into as this makes it out to seem.

it seems pertinent to the discussion, how close are MK’s most complex archetypes to this?

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

This combo route cheat sheet for Angel in KOF went viral on twitter because this is crazy. KOF is actually very fun and not as hard to jump into as this makes it out to seem.

it seems pertinent to the discussion, how close are MK’s most complex archetypes to this?

This looks like the Sareena combo extension loop, but with Beyond Flames instead of the x4 Daggers.

I did not realize KOF was now apparently playable by normal human beings, because I'm old enough to remember the KOF13 combo trials and that one little kid from Morocco who was mopping people with Mr. Karate.

EDIT: Went back to watch the match and I swear the Mandela Effect is real because now the kid was on the French team...

 

[NariTuba]

Ive recently been surprised by how hard Cage / Sonya is at a high level. Those fully charged b2 combos midscreen and those 50% hype combos are pretty difficult to execute in a tight match.

Geras is not hard to execute for the most part. He's just a lot of info to remember