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Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
@Amplified$hotz
This is me mixing the Vortex HTB from Low to Overhead and Overhead to Low without triggering autoblock from HTB protection because they are 4+ frames apart. I just changed the height that I freeze him at to change the mix, you can also do it with distance of Lao Hat or when you let it go, or by timing neutral jump at slightly different, just so you know it's possible and not extremely hard to do if you're used to Lao HTB's with other characters like Sindel:
 
LiangHuBBB

LiangHuBBB

Warrior
its rly weird so often my opponent does a sweep and is with his whole leg + foot in the ice clone, yet it doesnt freeze him.
sometimes it does freeze my opponent when this happens but only 1 out of 10 times it freezes them lol
 
Huyaka_v_jope_amersa

Huyaka_v_jope_amersa

Noob
Sub Zero is a gem for me. Also played in a week on sub, what whanna say guys, goro is rly good cameo for him, b33 and f123 with goro ending (R1) or (BackR1) on block or use it like combo starter (fR1) (with no meter 305dmg+). I think hes rly good mid char, feels some styles like in mkx, if u like mind game or spoof ur opponent.
 
NHDR

NHDR

Kombatant
I'd be really surprised if he's top 10 now. I'm sure he's better but going from last to top 10 seems really tough.
 
E

Eji1700

Kombatant
NHDR said:
I'd be really surprised if he's top 10 now. I'm sure he's better but going from last to top 10 seems really tough.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree. Ignoring that they’re going to fix the bugs that for once benefit him, clone is still super punishable.
There’s more of a mixup now if you have meter but I’m guessing it’s just not enough
 
O

OldManFGC

Noob
Ah, so 34 is the way with Scorpion for combos. I had been wondering how to get more optimal with that pairing. It's nice that the patch is making people want to experiment more with Sub. Some of these were always possible but not as well known. The side switch one is new though, which is nice.

@Bulletz4Breakfast I noticed you mentioned me, but the nerf to Sonya's charge shot made me not as eager to play, so I'm taking a break until Khameleon drops. Hope you all get many W's with Sub =)
 
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Ok I got a new potential Optimal from HTB with Lao Kameo, it bypasses HTB protection because I'm hitting low first both within a frame from eachother to get higher damage, if they where to block the low first it would automatically block the overhead B2 because of HTB protection.
But it's a true 50/50 HTB you can separate them 4 frames apart but it drops damage to 39%
If you do the 1 frame HTBs it will do 44% low to overhead and I guarantee they can't tell which is coming first, and you can do it OH to Low and it will guaranteed do 38% 1BAR, I think it's worth the risk of them blocking it cuz that's 44% and I can condition the overhead using Lao to make it safe:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738471278019825971
You can do a slightly more damaging F12xxSlide ender instead of 4xxSlide but it's less than a % more, so for execution sake I'm calling this one Optimal cuz the scaling makes them the same. But as always if you have a more optimal version please share.
Note: the S4xxBF3 ender won't connect if you are on a huge stage or start combo from corner to corner, so use 3xxBF3 instead with a full dash into cancel.

Here's a meterless 29% from B34 using Lao hat:

I also found a Clone Setup, haven't really optimized yet, gonna figure out the perfect routes for more damage into setup, because if they try to attack, advance forward, throw projectiles anything but disjointed moves and Backdash/block, they get frozen, who knows if it'll be useful?



Let's not forget Lao gives great zoning, safety on buttons other than Armor gap on raw version, and Sub gets a HTB Vortex that can mixed OH to Low and Low to OH

I gotta say he's being carried hard but might be high Mid Tier maybe low S, he still has a bunch of weaknesses that I don't believe Kameos cover but I guess if you get one touch you can technically delete their health but he's unsafe doing actual HTBs cuz the only way for Sub to make Overhead safe with held Lao hat is to have it hit after the second hit of B2 hits which defeats the purpose of HTB's. If I was to judge Tier placements like some are above I'd have to compare what Sub gets vs S+ Tiers with the same Kameo and I gotta say Sindel gets a lot more and so do the rest of the Top 7 with their best Kameo
Since all those S Tiers have safe HTB's that loop I'd say that Sub Zero is strong with Lao but still high risk and medium reward, while I consider S+ Tiers Low risk with high reward.


@Amplified$hotz
@Eji1700
@mrapchem
 
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Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Amplified$hotz said:
Here’s a way to get out of Sindel & Sub-Zero’s vortex with Sareena: https://x.com/lazarus_rebelo/status/1738698971629891636?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg

https://x.com/lazarus_rebelo/status/1738701284285325445?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg
Click to expand...
I've already seen Lin Kuei Master doing this tech, which is Rebelo.
He's wrong about Sub though, I hate to say that because he's a very smart and good player, but I labbed this to death.
Yes you can use Kameos as meat shield and then block high but as I showed the HTB Vortex goes both ways and it's either overhead to low or low to overhead and his way only shows blocking high. The problem is if it hits B2 overhead first and I have low hat hit just after between 1-4 frames the low hits and the next hit of B2 the high hits and launches for full combo. He has to guess it's still a 50/50 and this isn't a universal option to shut down HTB Vortex at least with Sub
Essentially He has to guess a 50/50 and block accordingly. If you're doing my 1-2 Frame HTB it's just a 50/50 that does 44% and if you do the actual HTB 4 frames apart it has no HTB Protection and is a true 50/50 HTB so they have to guess and Fuzzy Guard correctly.
He did this vs Sindel earlier today and it does actually work for Sindel because I can't get the overhead JIP to hit before hat because of the strict timing restriction of making it stuff Armor/Wakeups and still Looping HTB. The only way Sindel can do jump in first is JIK and as I've said before makes it not a true Vortex because she can't combo long off her Jump Kicks, so Sindel can't juggle long enough to actually get Lao hat back full meter which is needed for this HTB Vortex. So it works vs Sindel's HTB Vortex because only her JIP HTB low-OH works as Vortex(loops with Laos Regen)
I hope I explained that right, haven't had much sleep.

BTW Koisy was pissed about him posting that tech.
Here's Koisy's Tweet:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738701838268997820

Here's my reply:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738900098917060785
 
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Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Bulletz4Breakfast said:
I've already seen Lin Kuei Master doing this tech, which is Rebelo.
He's wrong about Sub though, I hate to say that because he's a very smart and good player, but I labbed this to death.
Yes you can use Kameos as meat shield and then block high but as I showed the HTB Vortex goes both ways and it's either overhead to low or low to overhead and his way only shows blocking high. The problem is if it hits B2 overhead first and I have low hat hit just after between 1-4 frames the low hits and the next hit of B2 the high hits and launches for full combo. He has to guess it's still a 50/50 and this isn't a universal option to shut down HTB Vortex at least with Sub
Essentially He has to guess a 50/50 and block accordingly. If you're doing my 1-2 Frame HTB it's just a 50/50 that does 44% and if you do the actual HTB 4 frames apart it has no HTB Protection and is a true 50/50 HTB so they have to guess and Fuzzy Guard correctly.
He did this vs Sindel earlier today and it does actually work for Sindel because I can't get the overhead JIP to hit before hat because of the strict timing restriction of making it stuff Armor/Wakeups and still Looping HTB. The only way Sindel can do jump in first is JIK and as I've said before makes it not a true Vortex because she can't combo long off her Jump Kicks, so Sindel can't juggle long enough to actually get Lao hat back full meter which is needed for this HTB Vortex. So it works vs Sindel's HTB Vortex because only her JIP HTB low-OH works as Vortex(loops with Laos Regen)
I hope I explained that right, haven't had much sleep.

BTW Koisy was pissed about him posting that tech.
Here's Koisy's Tweet:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738701838268997820

Here's my reply:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1738900098917060785
Click to expand...
This is really good information, thank you!
 
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Ok I have new Counters to Stryker grenades I think I'll make a thread:




The Timing that Johnny is set to do Stryker Grenades is the same timing they used in Tournaments, the timing that punishes you for punishing them and the same timing Tweedy used to win COTR Week 7.

This is basically universal counter to Stryker grenades.

And yes I came back with a HTB Vortex started from a JIP HTB into a TOD Sequence.

@Amplified$hotz
@mrapchem
@Eji1700
 
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