Li Mei General Discussion

[Syzoth]

So it seems LM were untouched. I'd say she is very honest, or at least that's what it seems.

Honest is the exact word for it. She's fair in most imaginable ways. I've reached God with her the past two seasons and only seem to be unable to reach elder God because of time I have to grind rather than an inability. My only real issue is that people experienced in the matchup are really good at blowing up those gaps.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Honest is the exact word for it. She's fair in most imaginable ways. I've reached God with her the past two seasons and only seem to be unable to reach elder God because of time I have to grind rather than an inability. My only real issue is that people experienced in the matchup are really good at blowing up those gaps.

Congrats!

I havent had the will to go into online play since I play only offline against my buddies and lack of MU knowledge discourages me somehow.

What gaps, and in which situations those gaps are exploited in your opinion? Reason me asking is because I try not to give the opportunity to armor through in the first place.

 

[rifraf]

Congrats!

I havent had the will to go into online play since I play only offline against my buddies and lack of MU knowledge discourages me somehow.

What gaps, and in which situations those gaps are exploited in your opinion? Reason me asking is because I try not to give the opportunity to armor through in the first place.

Probably the biggest gap "offender" is on b34 where I really want to hit that low but someone that knows the matchup will blow it up. The other obvious one is 214.
I would personally keep b34 as is because b3 is plus on block and it's a very powerful string in general, but I would concede tightening 214 a bit just by making 21 0 on block instead of being -2. This way, it's safer to bait a d1 or a standing 1.

 

[Syzoth]

Congrats!

What gaps, and in which situations those gaps are exploited in your opinion?

The gaps were listed on the last page. However, the biggest issue is 124. This is her main BnB string. It's a stubby 7 frame starter that leads into 35% one bar. If you stop at 12 you're +2. But unfortunately Li Mei lacks a good Mid to really enforce her plus frame pressure.

If you do the full 124 it would be -7. Ofcourse you can use Kameos or spend a bar to make yourself neutral or plus. However. This gap between the 2 and 4 be armored through and punished. Infact all of Li Mei's strings that hit more than twice have a gap before the third hit.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

The gaps were listed on the last page. However, the biggest issue is 124. This is her main BnB string. It's a stubby 7 frame starter that leads into 35% one bar. If you stop at 12 you're +2. But unfortunately Li Mei lacks a good Mid to really enforce her plus frame pressure.

If you do the full 124 it would be -7. Ofcourse you can use Kameos or spend a bar to make yourself neutral or plus. However. This gap between the 2 and 4 be armored through and punished. Infact all of Li Mei's strings that hit more than twice have a gap before the third hit.

No disrespect but I think you are wrong. Thinking you need a better mids to enforce those plus frames and seeing a problem with 124 having gaps indicates you have incorrect understanding of this character design. I understand where is this thinking coming from, and its fine. Its very typical in fact.

First of all what makes her toolkit good enough to enforce those plus frame, is the fact that you dont have a gap between 12.
To apply her plus frames effectively you must condition your opponent to respect and fear 12. When you have the ability to get inside your opponents head, thats when you can set things in motion.

The main tools for this job are: 12,d1,b2,d4,34 and ex-db4. These tools are more than enough to keep your opponent on his toes, and open him up without taking a risk of getting blown up with 124. I dont consider using 124 Ex Nova Blast legit ender as this is interruptible. It can be used but it depends on the opponent familiarity with this play properties - its a gimmick, nothing more. Therefore 124 should be used only on hit, not on block.

The key in maintaining offense and opening up your opponents require strong neutral and ability to adjust based on opponents behaviour. Of course using the mentioned above tools is essential. On top of it all, she requires patience.

You should be able to lab and verify everything mentioned above - its not some theory bs talk, its legit. Once you understand how to take advantage of these tools your perception will shift as you will have more success.

 

[Pan1cMode]

No disrespect but I think you are wrong. Thinking you need a better mids to enforce those plus frames and seeing a problem with 124 having gaps indicates you have incorrect understanding of this character design. I understand where is this thinking coming from, and its fine. Its very typical in fact.

First of all what makes her toolkit good enough to enforce those plus frame, is the fact that you dont have a gap between 12.
To apply her plus frames effectively you must condition your opponent to respect and fear 12. When you have the ability to get inside your opponents head, thats when you can set things in motion.

The main tools for this job are: 12,d1,b2,d4,34 and ex-db4. These tools are more than enough to keep your opponent on his toes, and open him up without taking a risk of getting blown up with 124. I dont consider using 124 Ex Nova Blast legit ender as this is interruptible. It can be used but it depends on the opponent familiarity with this play properties - its a gimmick, nothing more. Therefore 124 should be used only on hit, not on block.

The key in maintaining offense and opening up your opponents require strong neutral and ability to adjust based on opponents behaviour. Of course using the mentioned above tools is essential. On top of it all, she requires patience.

You should be able to lab and verify everything mentioned above - its not some theory bs talk, its legit. Once you understand how to take advantage of these tools your perception will shift as you will have more success.

Could you show us some of your game play where you’re not using 124 on block or having any of your gaps blown up?

I would appreciate being able to learn from you.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Could you show us some of your game play where you’re not using 124 on block or having any of your gaps blown up?

I would appreciate being able to learn from you.

Hey Pan,

At some point it is inevitable and I guess everyone gets interrupted here and there. I fish for 214 and I get blown away when I get greedy.

Recently I wanted to change my game play and preserve meter by going meterless combos by doing 124, NB, into Far Scorpion follow up and noticed inconsistencies - it does not connect when beginning of the string is blocked and opponent releases the black and gets hit by the last hit (4). The follow up does not connect. So pressuring on block with 124 seem to make sense only if you are willing to commit to exNB. On the other hand what really sucks, is that there is a gap, so two things happen here: for one, you lose your turn. Two: you waste one bar of meter.

This might require some more labing, but I think its pointless to use 124 exNB on block. Perhaps 124exdb4 will be gapless but that is even bigger risk.
Now with Scorpions OH assist being -2, it seems like there is more at hand when it comes to opening opponent.

Also, since this game requires full stick of butter to break, a good player will not waste resources to gain 10% damage when LM with every single touch can deal 40%+.

Sometimes between Christmas and New Years Eve I will see if I can set-up OBS and get some decent matches. Though to be honest this isnt really biggest challenge when it comes to LM. All you really needs to do, is avoid this link on block, unless you suspect your opponent wont armor through or pay attention to meter.

Syzoth made two points.

One: that her main problem is the gap between 124.
Two: lack of forward advancing (or good enough generally speaking mids to maintain plus frames) move.

Most characters have gaps between first two hits - and that is a huge problem. So when applying block strings avoiding blown away its almost impossible. With LM we have I would say a luxury, that we can go on with 12 without being concern AND keep plus frames, that allows 12 loop on block. If we read that opponent is happy with poking we have two options, which in both cases its a win-win. If opponent decides to take a step back - that also gets him killed. If opponent decides to jump - we bring him down faster than he finishes saying "Oh shit".

The challenge is at jump distance with her short range. However I recently discovered when challenging Smoke's f12, that instead if using B2, 34 seem to work as well. However it still requires further testing irl matches.

 

[Syzoth]

With LM we have I would say a luxury, that we can go on with 12 without being concern AND keep plus frames, that allows 12 loop on block. If we read that opponent is happy with poking we have two options, which in both cases its a win-win. If opponent decides to take a step back - that also gets him killed. If opponent decides to jump - we bring him down faster than he finishes saying "Oh shit".

If you loop 12 on block and they're not ducking the one, we're facing different caliber opponents.

You do 12. You're plus 2. You can either b2, which is -3 on block and you lose your turn, or you can d1 which is -6/7 on block and you lose your turn. Unless of course they tried to jam a button. In which case you're plus again. (Assuming you got the timing) But all of your starters are highs. So even if they didn't block it the first time, they will eventually.

If they gave us the Reptile treatment where his 21 and his f21 are the exact same strings except the forward variation starts with a mid we'd be absolutely blessed with the ability to really utilize our plus frames.

I'll post some of my matches this week (hopefully tomorrow) so you guys can see what's been working/not working for me. Perhaps you can do the same and we can visualize what each other is saying.

 

[rifraf]

This gap between the 2 and 4 be armored through and punished. Infact all of Li Mei's strings that hit more than twice have a gap before the third hit.

Yes, but the opponent is spending a bar for it and they're also eating damage. There are also no armored launchers(I think) in the game so I consider the trade favorable for Li Mei.

After 12 you have quite a few choices, but if the caliber of your opponents is so high then you always have the choice to backdash and punish their d1 or if they're crouchblocking, you can grab them, f3, instant EXairdb4, etc. You can't machine gun your opponent with Li Mei, you need to play spacing well and punish.

 

[rifraf]

Also, stealth buff. We can now use more than 1 lanterns within the same combo. Combining her with Scorpion kameo, Li Mei can now reach 592 dmg from a b34 That's some fat dmg, if you have the recourses available.

 

[tanosergio05]

I cant double lantern... any advice? is like imposible 4 me idk why... any tip or trick? =)

 

[rifraf]

I cant double lantern... any advice? is like imposible 4 me idk why... any tip or trick? =)

Assuming you're using Scorpion kameo, you could try this labbing this combo. b34+upKameo, lantern, 4+db3, upKameo, forward dash+lantern

 

[Evantabes]

DB3/Ex DB3 punish charts assuming you can't get a jab or other regular starter. * means it's situational and to see the notes.

Updated as of Ferra patch

Spoiler: Ashrah

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
F3	Y*	N	Specifically referring to point blank, cross-up F3 where she lands too far away for a regular starter.
122	N	Y
21	N	Y
F42	N	Y
F423	N	Y

Spoiler: Baraka

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B3	Y	Y
B31	N	Y
F3	N	Y
444	N	Y

Spoiler: Ermac

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
123	N	Y
2	N	Y*	Safe at point blank
21	N	Y
4	N	Y
F4	N	Y
D4	Y*	Y*	Spacing dependent

Spoiler: General Shao

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D4	Y	Y*	Ex DB3 works at point blank only
B1	N	Y
22	N	Y
B32	N	Y
B2	n	Y*	Flawless block only

Spoiler: Geras

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D4	N	Y*	Spacing dependent
B4	Y	N
B12	N	Y
F4	N	Y

Spoiler: Havik

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D4	Y*	Y*	D3 isn't punishable. DB3 punishes everything except max range. Ex DB3 is spacing dependent.

Spoiler: Homelander

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	Y	Y*	Ex is spacing dependent. Just use regular.
B4	N	Y
F4	Y	Y
D4	Y*	Y*	Spacing dependent

Spoiler: Johnny Cage

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B3	Y*	N	Referring to spaced B3 where it's too far for a regular starter.
214	N	Y

Spoiler: Kenshi

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D4	N	Y*	Spacing dependent
F22	N	Y
44	N	Y
DF1	N	Y
Sento D1	N	Y
Sento D3	N	Y
Sento D4	N	Y
F2	N	Y

Spoiler: Kitana

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B4	N	Y*	Only the worst, most point blank ones are punishable.
B3	N	Y
F1	Y	Y
2	N	Y
B33	N	Y
B1	N	Y*	If flawless blocked and spaced poorly, or else too much pushback
B14	N	Y*	If flawless blocked
B2	N	Y
4	N	Y
BF1	N	Y

Spoiler: Kung Lao

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
F3	N	Y
F4	Y	N
Ex BF1	N	Y*
Ex BF2	N	Y

Spoiler: Li Mei

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B24	N	Y

Spoiler: Liu Kang

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
33	N	Y
32	N	Y*	If flawless blocked

Spoiler: Mileena

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
F2433	N	Y
F4	N	Y*	Can be spaced to be safe
Air Ex DB4	Y*	Y*	She can be punishable

Spoiler: Nitara

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
12	N	Y
F12	N	Y
3	N	Y*	Spacing dependent
34	N	Y*	Divekick can be made safe

Spoiler: Omni Man

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B11	N	Y
F3	Y	Y

Spoiler: Peacemaker

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	Y	Y*	Ex is spacing dependent. Just use regular.
B4	N	Y*	Only if point blank

Spoiler: Quan

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	Y	Y*	Ex is spacing dependent. Just use regular.
13	N	Y
F21	Y	N	Too far for ex, regular hits every time.
B3	N	Y
B34	N	Y

Spoiler: Raiden

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B2	N	Y
123	N	Y*	If flawless blocked
F224	N	Y
F434	N	Y

Spoiler: Rain

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
F1	N	Y*	Can be spaced to be safe
B2	Y*	N	Spacing dependent
F2	N	Y*	Can be made safe against crouch block
D4	N	Y
112	N	Y*	If flawless blocked
4	Y*	Y*	Flawless block data listed in-game is wrong. Really -17 on flawless block, not -7 as listed.

Spoiler: Reiko

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
34	N	Y
4	N	Y

Spoiler: Reptile

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
114	N	Y
3	N	Y*	Can get a punish at most spacings
B31	N	Y
F311	N	Y*	If flawless blocked

Spoiler: Scorpion

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	Y	Y*	Ex DB3 can whiff depending on the spacing. Just use regular DB3.
F4	N	Y

Spoiler: Shang Tsung

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B223	N	Y
F434 (Young)	N	Y
F32 (Old)	N	Y*	Spacing dependent.
F41 (Old)	N	Y

Spoiler: Sindel

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
2	N	Y

Spoiler: Smoke

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D34	N	Y
21	N	Y
F231	N	Y*	If flawless blocked

Spoiler: Sub-Zero

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
12	N	Y
F12	N	Y
21	N	Y
212	N	Y
34	N	Y
B3	N	Y
B4	N	Y*	Spacing dependent.
D4	N	Y

Spoiler: Takeda

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	Y	Y*	Ex is spacing dependent. Just use regular.
F12	N	Y
F2	N	Y
B3	N	Y
B4	N	Y*	Spacing dependent
F4	N	Y
D4	N	Y
Ex DF4	N	Y*	First rekka

Spoiler: Tanya

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
2	N	Y
DF1/Ex DF1	N	Y
Air DF1	Y*	Y*	Spacing dependent
Ex Teleport	N	Y*	If for some reason they don't cancel into an attack

Kameos

Spoiler: Sektor

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
F+K	N	Y*	Flawless block data listed in-game is wrong. Really -7 on flawless block, not 0 as listed.

Spoiler: Tremor

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
Crystalline F+K	N	Y*	Flawless block for no pushback

 

[tanosergio05]

DB3/Ex DB3 punish charts for normals assuming you can't get a jab or other regular starter. * means it's situational and to see the notes.

Spoiler: Ashrah

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
F3	Y*	N	Specifically referring to point blank, cross-up F3 where she lands too far away for a regular starter.
122	N	Y
21	N	Y
F42	N	Y
F423	N	Y

Spoiler: Baraka

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B3	Y	Y
B31	N	Y
F3	N	Y
444	N	Y

Spoiler: General Shao

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D4	Y	Y*	Ex DB3 works at point blank only.
B1	N	Y
22	N	Y
B32	N	Y

Spoiler: Geras

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D4	N	Y*	Spacing dependent.
B4	Y	N
B12	N	Y
F4	N	Y

Spoiler: Havik

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D4	Y*	Y*	D3 isn't punishable. DB3 punishes everything except max range. Ex DB3 is spacing dependent.

Spoiler: Johnny Cage

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B3	Y*	N	Referring to spaced B3 where it's too far for a regular starter.

Spoiler: Kenshi

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D4	N	Y*	Spacing dependent.
F22	N	Y
44	N	Y

Spoiler: Kitana

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B4	N	Y*	Only the worst, most point blank ones are punishable.
B3	N	Y
F1	Y	Y
2	N	Y
B33	N	Y
4	N	Y

Spoiler: Kung Lao

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
F3	N	Y
F4	Y*	N	Pushback is so far that I couldn't get Scorpion to connect.

Spoiler: Li Mei

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y

Spoiler: Liu Kang

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
33	N	Y

Spoiler: Mileena

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
F3433	N	Y

Spoiler: Nitara

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
12	N	Y
F12	N	Y
3	N	Y*	Spacing dependent.
34	N	Y*	Divekick can be made safe.

Spoiler: Raiden

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B2	N	Y
F224	N	Y
F434	N	Y

Spoiler: Rain

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B2	Y*	N	Spacing dependent.
F2	N	Y*	Can be made safe against crouch block.
D4	N	Y

Spoiler: Reiko

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
34	N	Y

Spoiler: Reptile

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
114	N	Y
3	N	Y*	Can get a punish at most spacings.
B31	N	Y

Spoiler: Scorpion

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	Y	Y*	Ex DB3 can whiff depending on the spacing. Just use regular DB3
F4	N	Y

Spoiler: Shang Tsung

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
B223	N	Y
F434 (Young)	N	Y
F32 (Old)	N	Y*	Spacing dependent.
F41 (Old)	N	Y

Spoiler: Sindel

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
2	N	Y

Spoiler: Smoke

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
D34	N	Y
21	N	Y

Spoiler: Sub-Zero

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
12	N	Y
F12	N	Y
21	N	Y
212	N	Y
34	N	Y
B3	N	Y
B4	N	Y*	Spacing dependent.
D4	N	Y*	Pushback is so far that I couldn't get Scorpion to connect.

Spoiler: Tanya

Move	DB3	Ex DB3	Notes
D1	N	Y
D3	N	Y
2	N	Y

Outstanding work. Thanks a lot!!

 

[scrubjesus111]

It’s rare I know but I’m hoping NRS adds to her kit — idk what exactly. But I also don’t know what to buff. She needs something.

edit: In her outro she has energy stripes on her arms. Would be neat if she could build energy towards new abilities like Tanya.

 

[rifraf]

It’s rare I know but I’m hoping NRS adds to her kit — idk what exactly. But I also don’t know what to buff. She needs something.

edit: In her outro she has energy stripes on her arms. Would be neat if she could build energy towards new abilities like Tanya.

I would be very disappointed if they released an expansion without going through all the characters and refreshing them in some way. I mean, it's not 2005. Li Mei's kit is pretty good compared to characters like Sub-Zero and Scorpion but that doesn't mean much anyway.

They should give her MK9 Kabal's iafb

 

[Pan1cMode]

I think Li Mei is in a good place right now, but if we’re talking about buffs…

Some of these seem like pretty reasonable changes and some are insane. Obviously if she were to get all of them she’d be broken, but this is just for fun .

Remove gaps from the following strings:
124
f44
f43
4312
b21

All the strings with plus frames should retain their gap.

Add a 3rd hit to the b21 string (eg b213) allowing you to hitconfirm your mid. Could use the same/similar animation as 4312.

db3 (regular) is 9frame start up
ex db3 is 6 frame start up

Change the hit reaction for ex bf4 so that it is more similar to the non-ex version (allowing a kameo juggle follow up)

If Li Mei hits her own lantern with bf1, it hits mid (currently hits high)

Allow Li Mei to spend another bar of meter after landing ex bf4 to provide a small juggle.

Give Li Mei an ex lantern which changes the lantern arc so that it travels lower and hits mid. Or, make ex lantern have significantly faster startup and recovery

Increase cancel advantage on 124, or launch height of 124, so that if the first hit of the string is blocked, bf1 will not whiff in combo.

Reduce the recovery frames of iabf1 to make it faster than grounded bf1 (maybe similar to sindel’s hairball?)

Make ia ex db4 have the same frame data on regular and flawless block. Maintain the gap so can still be armoured.

Slightly increase the launch height of bf4, ia ex db4, db3, and ex db3; so that Kameo Sonya can be used to extend combos.


All of these are insane; but what are your thoughts?

 

[Pan1cMode]

Li Mei + Khameleon is super fun and hella viable. I honestly think this might be her new best variation. Or at least tied with scorpion.

Mileena makes her ex db3 launch (much like scorpion). This gives her a 7 frame punish .

db3(ex), f+K, 43~bf4 [283.85]
db3(ex), f+K, 3~bf1(ex), ji134~db4 [398.21]

Midscreen you get decent damage with her as well.
124~db3, f+K, 43~bf4 [319.04]
124~bf1(ex), ji134, f+K, ji212~db4[406.11]
124~db3, f+K, bf1(ex), ji134~db4 [378.85]
(Tighter timing) 124~db3, f+K, 4~bf1(ex), ji134~db4 [397.54]
(These combos work from all her standard starters)

4312~K, ji134~db4 [314.26]
4321~K, ji134~bf1(ex), ji13~db4 [400.81]
(This will work with any grounded starter)

f4~bf1(ex), 43~db3, f+K, 4~bf4 [366.07]

You can also get a combo off ex iadb4 although the timing is a bit weird/tight.
ia db4(ex), f+K, 43~bf4 285.55

She gets a mini-launch off her armoured reversal (ex bf4) although you have to commit to the kameo before you see if it’s hit.

bf4(ex), f+K, bf4 [189]
bf4(ex), f+K, bf1(ex), 4~bf4 [234.30]
bf4(ex), f+K, bf1(ex), bf1(ex), 4~bf4 [257.51]

In the corner she gets big girl damage

124~db2, f+K, db2, j134~db4 [370.56]
124~db2, f+k, db2, j134~bf1(ex), j13~db4 [423.22]
124~bf1(ex), 43~db2, f+K, db2, ji134~db4[434.93]

4321~K, 4~db2, db2, j134~db4 [413.97]
4321~K, 4~db2, db2, j134~bf1(ex), j13~db4 [473.37]
(works for all grounded starters)


Kitana’s fan gives her a way to plug her gaps and remain safe. While there is a gap when cancelling into the fan, it’s not big enough to poke out and so will catch anyone who tries to down poke or neutral duck. If they try and armour out, the fan multi hits and will break. This gives her a reliable way to enforce her plus frames with b34, 214, and 434. If the fan hits a counter poke attempt, it launches for a decent combo

K, 43~bf4 [205]
K, 4~bf1(ex), ji134~db4 [325.38]

She also gives some decent damage midscreen with Kitana.

124~db3, f+K, 124~db4 [325.82]
124~db3, f+K, 212~bf1(ex), ji13~db4 [394.16]

4312~bf1(ex), 43~db4, f+K, 134~db4 [407.26]
(works with any grounded starter)

Li Mei also gets a throw combo with Khameleon Kitana.

THRW, f+K (at the height of the throw before the lion hits), 134~db4[176.70]
THRW, f+K (at the height of the throw before the lion hits), 134~bf1(ex), ji13~db4 [227.17]

She can use the jump to combo full screen off her regular bf1; just hold forward and you’ll jump full screen. You get a jump in attack to start whatever you want

In the corner she hits like a truck too. Heaven help the person who tries to poke in her gaps. Getting launched for 400+

124~K, db2, db2, j134~db4[387.44]
124~K, db2, db2, ji134~bf1(ex), j12~db4[440.10]

4312~K, 4~db2, db2, ji134~db4 [415.49]
4312~K, 4~db2, db2, ji134~bf1(ex), j13~db4 [471.4]
(Works for all grounded starters)

Jade appears to function similarly to Sarena’s knife toss kameo. Gives her some decent damage midscreen.

4312~K, f43, ji134~db4 [349.75]
4312~K, 4312~K, f43, ji134~db4 [397.34]
4312~K, f43, ji134~bf1(ex), ji13~db4[416.35]
4312~K(hold), b34~db3, f+K, 212~bf1(ex), ji13~db4[450.62]
(Works on any grounded starter)

Similar to her other variations, she hits hard in the corner.
4312~K, f43, 3~db2, db2, ji134~db4[426.48]
4312~K, f43, 4~db2, db2, ji134~bf1(ex), ji13~db4[472.19]
4312~K(hold), 4312~K, 4~db2, db2, ji134~db4[442.99]
4312~K(hold), 4313~K, 4~db2, db2, ji134~bf1(ex), j13~db4[481.83]

Guys she’s sooooo much fun!!

 

[Syzoth]

Li Mei + Khameleon is super fun and hella viable.

I haven't gotten to try Khameleon yet but you've gotten me feeling ambitious Ill share what I find with the group but likely won't get to it until this weekend (unless weather closes the city tomorrow)

 

[Syzoth]

Guys she’s sooooo much fun!!

Couldn't sleep. Neglected sleep to explore Khameleon.

Khameleon genuinely fixes all of my "issues" with Li Mei. Contemplating buying a PS5 to get back into tournaments ASAP.

As Panic said, katana disguise allows us to enforce our plus frames finally. Crazy corner damage. Solid mid screen damage. Meterless combos on hit confirm.

21% throw damage if you can squeeze 2 kitana assists. 17% if you can't. If you're going for the two kitana assists and the timer expires - you get a Mileena assist that still connects.

Every assist has a purpose - cooldown is Kung Lao fast.

Excited to record league with her. Elder God won't take me as long as the last two seasons for sure.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Couldn't sleep. Neglected sleep to explore Khameleon.

Khameleon genuinely fixes all of my "issues" with Li Mei. Contemplating buying a PS5 to get back into tournaments ASAP.

As Panic said, katana disguise allows us to enforce our plus frames finally. Crazy corner damage. Solid mid screen damage. Meterless combos on hit confirm.

21% throw damage if you can squeeze 2 kitana assists. 17% if you can't. If you're going for the two kitana assists and the timer expires - you get a Mileena assist that still connects.

Every assist has a purpose - cooldown is Kung Lao fast.

Excited to record league with her. Elder God won't take me as long as the last two seasons for sure.

Yup. The only thing I’ll say is I wish it didn’t auto scroll. I wish we could choose whether or not to progress; or maybe it would automatically swap to the next form once a kameo was used.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Li Mei can also convert off bf4 with kitana, although timing is tight.

 

[Wigy]

@Pan1cMode always see you posting about li mei so thought id ask. What are you meant to do with matchups like kitana where she can backdash and whiff punish EVERYTHING when shes negative. She has so many tools to make you whiff like crazy.

Also what is the point in any of her plus frames when her fastest mid is 12 frames and leads to nothing? Cant even backdash and whiff punish characters like kitana cause her d3 reaches half screen. I have no idea what her gameplan is once you find someone who knows the Matchup

 

[Pan1cMode]

@Pan1cMode always see you posting about li mei so thought id ask. What are you meant to do with matchups like kitana where she can backdash and whiff punish EVERYTHING when shes negative. She has so many tools to make you whiff like crazy.

Also what is the point in any of her plus frames when her fastest mid is 12 frames and leads to nothing? Cant even backdash and whiff punish characters like kitana cause her d3 reaches half screen. I have no idea what her gameplan is once you find someone who knows the Matchup

For your first point, there are a couple of options but each requires various reads and level of risk.

1. You can dash forward and attempt to chase them down
2. You can dash back and attempt to whiff punish their advancing string
3. You can use bf4 to catch them trying to back dash.
4. You can armour to catch them counter poking/dashing back.
5. You can neutral/back jump and try and whiff punish with db4

For your second point, the plus frames have to be enforced with either 124 (finishing the string), or d1, or d4. Against characters with far pokes it is a bit frustrating

 

[Wigy]

For your first point, there are a couple of options but each requires various reads and level of risk.

1. You can dash forward and attempt to chase them down
2. You can dash back and attempt to whiff punish their advancing string
3. You can use bf4 to catch them trying to back dash.
4. You can armour to catch them counter poking/dashing back.
5. You can neutral/back jump and try and whiff punish with db4

For your second point, the plus frames have to be enforced with either 124 (finishing the string), or d1, or d4. Against characters with far pokes it is a bit frustrating

#2 is sadly a no go because kitanas string is absolutely cracked and reaches a mile with no hurtbox at the end.

This is helpful but i think ive been trying most of this. Is a kitana known as a horrible matchup? Feels like you have to chase her and its the stubbiest reach vs ridiculous reach + great backdash