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Sub-Zero General Discussion

It does help and thanks
but when I played Sindel/Ashrah vs Sub I was able to meterlessly punish subs clone and Divekick:
But onlines another story. The Netcode is so trash I can get away with murder

And this is what I was talking about with meterless punishes on clone the ones I used meter are definitely worth it and put Sub in bad situations and even when I use Stryker to cover it vs Reptile I can still punish and knock Kameo out for free:
You'll get no disagreement from me about the state of online, which is really unfortunate. As for those various punishes, for sure, as soon as your opponent starts doing that you'll want to use the Klone differently, like to break armor against certain characters like I've shown, or as a roadblock for your zoning, or for corner setups, or just combo extensions. As for Dive Kick, being able to Dive Kick while jumping away is incredible, which is why that functionality is often limited in say Street Fighter games. It puts you in a low risk state against a lot of the cast, where you can punish them if you see movement. For instance, I instant air Dive Kick throws and pokes quite often this way.

I see in another thread people talking about the similar thing, that Sub is high risk. It's true that Klone is risky, but it's also an incredible tool. Being able to reset neutral for free without the use of an assist would be pretty crazy, and you can do that against opponents who don't know the counter or if you read that they really want to rush at you. But you don't have to play Sub risky, especially if you're punishing them on reaction with Slides and Dive Kick, which is why I call him a counter/whiff punish character. And then pairing that with solid zoning and decent footsies, and you actually have a very well rounded character, imo.

Of course, at this point I get that most people won't agree, and that's fine (don't even get me started on Sikander, lol). Hopefully he gets some buffs in a few days when Quan drops that make people happy, but if he doesn't, I think he's still a good character that I hope people can enjoy, though they may need to adjust their playstyle/expectations some to do so.
 
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Remember the Lin Kuei Master player that beat Honeybee and Sikander with Sub?

He did a 44% combo for 1 Bar using Sareena. It's not groundbreaking but it's something:
The Sonya version of this does 42%, btw. A little less than 42 with F12 starter, a little more with B2.

Edit: F12 is 2 Sub bar, 1 Sonya. B2 is 1 Sub bar, 1 Sonya.
 
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Eji1700

Kombatant
Remember the Lin Kuei Master player that beat Honeybee and Sikander with Sub?

He did a 44% combo for 1 Bar using Sareena. It's not groundbreaking but it's something:
I really hope that if this game sticks around ,we can standardize some naming conventions on "bar" because while yes this is 1 bar, and yes I just knew from damage alone that actually meant "1 bar + 2 kameo calls", it gets confusing when looking at other characters I'm not trying to main.
 

Ptehu

Prince of Edenia
SIk is right. Sareena is best for Sub.

I actually only recently discovered persona of Sikander and now watching his stream became my guilty pleasure.
 
Since Sub can pair with multiple Kameos, I got to thinking that it might be useful to try switching things around based on MU. So far, I'm finding:

Goro = Good against Sareena Kameo because you can punish a Sareena call from almost anywhere on screen with Enhanced Slide for around 23% damage. In contrast, Sonya comes out too soon and gets hit by Sareena. Goro you can call late and blocks the return blade.

Scorpion = Good against Kenshi for escaping the Sento sandwich with spear pull.

I also found that I do not like the throw distances that Goro and Scorpion create compared to Sonya, or the decreased throw damage, but I do think there can be some strong utility for the above.
 
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They supposedly made Sonya’s energy beam a mid instead of either decreasing it’s start up, or making it an ambush. Sigh…
They did?? That'll be great for zoning and some block pressure (I say some because there's usually a gap). Was this in the Kombat Kast? I just jumped to the part about Kameleon, who I can't wait to try. I guess this confirms a patch is coming at some point soon...
 
They did?? That'll be great for zoning and some block pressure (I say some because there's usually a gap). Was this in the Kombat Kast? I just jumped to the part about Kameleon, who I can't wait to try. I guess this confirms a patch is coming at some point soon...
There still a gap if it's a mid, the gap was from startup being slow. I wanted it to have a faster startup for charged
 

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
They did?? That'll be great for zoning and some block pressure (I say some because there's usually a gap). Was this in the Kombat Kast? I just jumped to the part about Kameleon, who I can't wait to try. I guess this confirms a patch is coming at some point soon...
Yeah. I like to zone with Sonya. If ring toss was faster it would make Sub/Sonya an A tier combo.
There still a gap if it's a mid, the gap was from startup being slow. I wanted it to have a faster startup for charged
Exactly. If Kung Lao and Sub-Zero weren’t in this game I would’ve dropped it by now. Because NRS is so incompetent if they’re making it a mid.

The issue the whole time is that it’s too slow to be a real threat in neutral.
 
Yeah, but if there was no gap than it would be busted like low hat and all Johnny's would just switch to it. Personally, I'd prefer Leg Grab to be faster so it works better as a reversal and can combo off of more strings.
 

Eji1700

Kombatant
I like the change in theory. I could still see him getting more (recovery on clone or removing a gap in one of his strings), but at least this gives him something to do with meter in neutral and is a unique concept rather than just a numbers change.
 
Question? Is there really a 1-bar Klone??? All my EX-Klones are still 2 bars.
Yes. Just let go of block immediately after doing the Enhanced version. Honestly, I wish the 2 bar version didn't exist. Too easy to hold for an extra second and get that version instead.
 

mrapchem

Apprentice
Yes. Just let go of block immediately after doing the Enhanced version. Honestly, I wish the 2 bar version didn't exist. Too easy to hold for an extra second and get that version instead.
That doesn't appear to work. I only press Block for a split second as it is without holding it and it's always a 2-bar version. It appears to be connected to the server issue because I can't access a damn thing.
 
That doesn't appear to work. I only press Block for a split second as it is without holding it and it's always a 2-bar version. It appears to be connected to the server issue because I can't access a damn thing.
I think servers being down is about invasions, but may be. The Klone didn't look right for the brief period we could play, for instance.
 

LionHeart V1

You will feel deaths cold embrace
So I was a bit confused on subs amp clone. So we can do a regular clone now and hold R2 to amp it into multiple clones for one bar and also do a longer regular clone for one bar?