Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Sub-Zero General Discussion

O

OldManFGC

Noob
The Highlander said:
I tried it out with sonya a bit, the problem is it's not an ambush, so you can get out but I didn't find a way to make it impactful. The sareena one is good because it's an ambush at the end of a string so sub can continue pressing buttons. But idk give it a try, maybe you'll find something that I couldn't.


Never mind I take it back, sareena's isn't an ambush either... but it is fast af
Click to expand...
True, Sareena is mad fast. I'll see what I can get with Sonya.

Also, I can't believe I never knew you could back throw people into Klone in the corner after 34, B34, and F123. Just tested. Wild, and a game changer.
 
E

Eji1700

Kombatant
Juggs said:
Whoever that “LinKuei_master” Sub player is, he not only did well vs HoneyBee’s Reptile, he also played and did well against SonicFox’s Reptile. I believe it was just a KL set, and I won’t spoil the results, but dude is an absolute beast with Sub, and actually made me start labbing Sub+Sareena a little bit.

The first set in this video is SF vs him:
Click to expand...
I think this shows a lot more of sub's potential than the honeybee footage. Honey clearly didn't know the matchup and seemed like he was on autopilot. Didn't know that divekick punish is height dependent, got blown up by dive kick for force balling a ton, and even caught 1 or 2 raw overheads (oh and got his strings armored through a ton).

Sonic on the other hand only got knowledge checked once (ate the fatal blow for forceballing when he had no business doing so). It's interesing just how different the matchup plays out between the two mostly from sonic just better spacing his forceballs and LKmaster not getting a ton of dive kick combos because of it.

OldManFGC said:
True, Sareena is mad fast. I'll see what I can get with Sonya.

Also, I can't believe I never knew you could back throw people into Klone in the corner after 34, B34, and F123. Just tested. Wild, and a game changer.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming you mean as a combo ender or can you do it raw?
 
Last edited:
O

OldManFGC

Noob
Eji1700 said:
I think this shows a lot more of sub's potential than the honeybee footage. Honey clearly didn't know the matchup and seemed like he was on autopilot. Didn't know that divekick punish is height dependent, got blown up by dive kick for force balling a ton, and even caught 1 or 2 raw overheads (oh and got his strings armored through a ton).

Sonic on the other hand only got knowledge checked once (ate the fatal blow for forceballing when he had no business doing so). It's interesing just how different the matchup plays out between the two mostly from sonic just better spacing his forceballs and LKmaster not getting a ton of dive kick combos because of it.


I'm assuming you mean as a combo ender or can you do it raw?
Click to expand...
I mean you can knockdown the opponent in the corner. Klone. Dash up and throw them into it to freeze them, then combo, like you could in MKX with Grandmaster.
 
E

Eji1700

Kombatant
LiangHuBBB said:
how does rebelo hit confirm his ice clone after j21 mid screen?
I always seem to miss the ice clone on that combo
Click to expand...
I did a breakdown here- https://testyourmight.com/threads/sub-zero-kombos.74792/page-3#post-2716431

but to save you a click:
Example (not my twitter):

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712589978708873525

Overhead starter, 1M:
b2, b2, j21, landing clone, j21 xx M dive kick, dash, 3 xx slide.

So naturally not only is sub weak in other areas, but his "best" 1M bnb is a bitch of combo to get down with a bunch of room for fucking up. After spending some time on it, some things I wish I knew, broken into sections-

1. b2, b2:
You need to hesitate slightly between both of these, but if you're having trouble getting that timing, you CAN land the rest of the combo with only a single b2.

2. b2, j21:
Start holding up+forward to jump BEFORE the b2 animation finishes so you jump as early as possible. Further you'll want to try and hit the j21 quite early. I swear to god this eats my inputs all the time but that's another fiasco.

3. j21, landing clone:
Wait until you're clear of the j21 cancel window so you don't do it in the air, but you still want to enter the clone command BEFORE you hit the ground so, again, it comes out super early.

4. landing clone, j21 xx M dive kick:
The vid shows the ideal height for this to hit at, but you'd be surprised how much lower you can technically land the j21 xx M dive kick. That said, something to be said for not being greedy. If you think it's too low you can swap into j3 xx slide for less damage, but at least get something.

5. M dive kick, dash, 3 xx slide:
Just note the dash in there. You can buffer the dash while the dive kick animation is playing and push 3 basically as soon as possible and get it all, but if you just try to walk forward you're super likely to whiff the slide and eat shit for it.

6. Adding a more realistic starter (like 21 xx M vapors) makes it 2M1K for 330ish (i haven't tested in a bit).

So yeah...good luck.
 
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Amplified$hotz said:
Thanks thats cool. I didn’t know about this.
Click to expand...
I should have shared it sooner, I just thought everyone knew, it was shown in UFA early in pools, Destroyers COTR and Kolliseum(however you spell it) and I believe it was shown when Lin Kuei Master beat Sikander with Sub/Sareena and oh boy Sik was screaming.
LKM is probably the best Sub Zero along with K7 Showoff which has done pretty well from what I've seen.
 
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
mrapchem said:
Sub-Zero can throw into Klone from 34

Click to expand...
This is why I like sharing tech. Because sometimes others build on it and make it better like your 34 version, far easier. Great stuff!

Believe it or not, Tremor gives some nice setups with throw. I call it throw push, same concept being non techable.
You call Tremor variation instantly go into Forward Kameo throw them do Ambush moves which Aftershock-Quake triple low does a reset into HTB but you can also do Throw Push into lava or roll ball into combo, does around 20-25% but costs full Kameo meter. You get half Kameo back in 18 Seconds and full Kameo in 30 seconds after using Ambush move.
If you need I'll do a video and show something.
Everything on Sub is heavily scaled, some select characters get around 40% from these push throws but Sub gets around 23% for most things off it but could be very strong, it isn't techable, no escape after throw push.
 
Last edited:
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
@Amplified$hotz @OldManFGC @mrapchem have any of you experimented with the new Cyrax bomb tech, I'm positive nothing I did below is optimal and I'm sure you know better combo routes than what I've messed around with.

You can do bomb and hold R1 to only detonate when you want and since Cyrax is out forward throw is a push that's non techable and the throw push puts Sub far enough not to get hit by exploding bomb when letting off R1
It launches high enough to get longer combos but has scaling unless you leave a gap where it's interruptable.

I can do a video in a bit but I've been very busy. but it's not hard to do, it's the same as doing throw push with Tremor but Haven't tested combos off it with Sub though.
Honestly it does make Cyrax pretty strong with the setups and throw push depending what people can get off it. Not gonna claim it's broke but it's undeniably strong in the right hands. Even if there are armor gaps it's a small 3f window if that and the armor can be baited where you still get another setup where I feel a good player wouldn't want to armor again and be meter starved to do so, take it for what you will and I'll update when I have time to make the clips.

Update:
Ok I have the Bomb setups on my channel, you can do safe 50/50's from B2/B34 it jails, then you can do bomb setup into a JIK/B4 and it launches which I think are legit and each sequence does 60% or more:


Some armor Wakeups probably beat the setup but it can be baited easily:

78% Sequence off those 50/50's:

Here's an example of throw push, but it is heavily scaled:
Throw Push is good for setting up bomb setups but from what I've tested you ain't doing more than 15-20% off the throw push but it's not techable and that's strong enough for me and I can always use an extra 20%. It's a 50/50 with Throw/Armor Launcher or ThrowPush/B4 and your far enough away that you won't be hit by bomb. I think you might be able to get a free bomb setup off most knockdowns but absolutely get it off any combo ender J21xxClone, maybe off EX-Deadly Vapors(DF4)
But you can also throw in the throw into clone setup on their knockdown after you used all of Cyrax meter.

Gotta experiment on how to do his B2 safe because I can get the B2 into bomb to launch without bomb hitting Sub but sometimes it hits Sub. It's probably a distance or timing thing
 
Last edited:
mrapchem

mrapchem

Apprentice
Bulletz4Breakfast said:
@Amplified$hotz @OldManFGC @mrapchem have any of you experimented with the new Cyrax bomb tech.
You can do bomb and hold R1 to only detonate when you want and since Cyrax is out forward throw is a push that's non techable and the throw push puts Sub or Reptile far enough not to get hit by exploding bomb when letting off R1
It launches high enough to get longer combos and doesn't have Subs freeze damage scaling.

I can do a video in a day or two. Been very busy but it's not hard to do, it's the same as doing throw push with Tremor but I believe more damage. Haven't tested combos off it with Sub though.
Honestly it does make Cyrax pretty strong.
Click to expand...
No, but I will now!
 
O

OldManFGC

Noob
Bulletz4Breakfast said:
@Amplified$hotz @OldManFGC @mrapchem have any of you experimented with the new Cyrax bomb tech, I'm positive nothing I did below is optimal and I'm sure you know better combo routes than what I've messed around with.

You can do bomb and hold R1 to only detonate when you want and since Cyrax is out forward throw is a push that's non techable and the throw push puts Sub far enough not to get hit by exploding bomb when letting off R1
It launches high enough to get longer combos but has scaling unless you leave a gap where it's interruptable.

I can do a video in a bit but I've been very busy. but it's not hard to do, it's the same as doing throw push with Tremor but Haven't tested combos off it with Sub though.
Honestly it does make Cyrax pretty strong with the setups and throw push depending what people can get off it. Not gonna claim it's broke but it's undeniably strong in the right hands. Even if there are armor gaps it's a small 3f window if that and the armor can be baited where you still get another setup where I feel a good player wouldn't want to armor again and be meter starved to do so, take it for what you will and I'll update when I have time to make the clips.

Update:
Ok I have the Bomb setups on my channel, you can do safe 50/50's from B2/B34 it jails, then you can do bomb setup into a JIK/B4 and it launches which I think are legit and each sequence does 60% or more:


Some armor Wakeups probably beat the setup but it can be baited easily:

78% Sequence off those 50/50's:

Here's an example of throw push, but it is heavily scaled:
Throw Push is good for setting up bomb setups but from what I've tested you ain't doing more than 15-20% off the throw push but it's not techable and that's strong enough for me and I can always use an extra 20%. It's a 50/50 with Throw/Armor Launcher or ThrowPush/B4 and your far enough away that you won't be hit by bomb. I think you might be able to get a free bomb setup off most knockdowns but absolutely get it off any combo ender J21xxClone, maybe off EX-Deadly Vapors(DF4)
But you can also throw in the throw into clone setup on their knockdown after you used all of Cyrax meter.

Gotta experiment on how to do his B2 safe because I can get the B2 into bomb to launch without bomb hitting Sub but sometimes it hits Sub. It's probably a distance or timing thing
Click to expand...
What's new about it? Was there some sort of hidden buff in the previous patch?

Edit: Also, nice to see that you can do the Klone into throw setup off of S3. In addition, since you're comboing off of sweep with Cyrax, I bet Goro can do that too midscreen. Hmmm.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Bulletz4Breakfast said:
@Amplified$hotz @OldManFGC @mrapchem have any of you experimented with the new Cyrax bomb tech, I'm positive nothing I did below is optimal and I'm sure you know better combo routes than what I've messed around with.

You can do bomb and hold R1 to only detonate when you want and since Cyrax is out forward throw is a push that's non techable and the throw push puts Sub far enough not to get hit by exploding bomb when letting off R1
It launches high enough to get longer combos but has scaling unless you leave a gap where it's interruptable.

I can do a video in a bit but I've been very busy. but it's not hard to do, it's the same as doing throw push with Tremor but Haven't tested combos off it with Sub though.
Honestly it does make Cyrax pretty strong with the setups and throw push depending what people can get off it. Not gonna claim it's broke but it's undeniably strong in the right hands. Even if there are armor gaps it's a small 3f window if that and the armor can be baited where you still get another setup where I feel a good player wouldn't want to armor again and be meter starved to do so, take it for what you will and I'll update when I have time to make the clips.

Update:
Ok I have the Bomb setups on my channel, you can do safe 50/50's from B2/B34 it jails, then you can do bomb setup into a JIK/B4 and it launches which I think are legit and each sequence does 60% or more:


Some armor Wakeups probably beat the setup but it can be baited easily:

78% Sequence off those 50/50's:

Here's an example of throw push, but it is heavily scaled:
Throw Push is good for setting up bomb setups but from what I've tested you ain't doing more than 15-20% off the throw push but it's not techable and that's strong enough for me and I can always use an extra 20%. It's a 50/50 with Throw/Armor Launcher or ThrowPush/B4 and your far enough away that you won't be hit by bomb. I think you might be able to get a free bomb setup off most knockdowns but absolutely get it off any combo ender J21xxClone, maybe off EX-Deadly Vapors(DF4)
But you can also throw in the throw into clone setup on their knockdown after you used all of Cyrax meter.

Gotta experiment on how to do his B2 safe because I can get the B2 into bomb to launch without bomb hitting Sub but sometimes it hits Sub. It's probably a distance or timing thing
Click to expand...
These are really good setups thanks for sharing. As long as you’re not in a life deficit, getting them to spend a bar on wake-up is a win. With the exception being armored launchers.

Can Sub-Zero combo mid screen with Cyrax’s vertical helicopter? If so, maybe Cyrax is a good kameo for him.
 
Last edited:
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Amplified$hotz said:
These are really good setups thanks for sharing. As long as you’re not in a life deficit, getting them to spend a bar on wake-up is a win. With the exception being armored launchers.

Can Sub-Zero combo mid screen with Cyrax’s vertical helicopter? If so, maybe Cyrax is a good kameo for him.
Click to expand...
Yes he can combo midscreen and I believe you can combo off back throw and forward throw with Cyrax midscreen but Back throw is 2-3 frame link midscreen and like 5-7 frame link in corner. What's really strong in corner is you could be in the corner back throw them out into Cyrax and he puts them back in corner to do over 20%!
You always have the 2BAR Forward throw option if not doing these push setups.

OldManFGC said:
What's new about it?
Click to expand...
I watched Sonics stream with Honeybee with Sonic in practice yesterday using Reptile Cyrax and he just discovered the Bomb setups and push setup. Honeybee said "doesn't everyone have this" and Sonic said: "No only like 3 Characters have the hit advantage to setup bomb/push throw without having 5+ options to punish/get away so it's not strong for most characters"
Then I labbed it and found Sub Zero, Reptile and Sindel has these setups.
I learned Sindel setups from ScarsUnseen which is a great Cyrax player from previous games and she's a legit lab monster. Cyrax loyalist like Brady and Sikander are with Sub.
Sonic Showed Reptile potential with Cyrax.
I discovered Subs by applying something he did with Reptile and going through every button Sub has for best advantage/OKI



Her doing it in real sets:

As far as I knew no real setups existed with bomb setups after patch because most chars can't safely get bomb out cuz it's a summon.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Bulletz4Breakfast said:
Yes he can combo midscreen and I believe you can combo off back throw and forward throw with Cyrax midscreen but Back throw is 2-3 frame link midscreen and like 5-7 frame link in corner. What's really strong in corner is you could be in the corner back throw them out into Cyrax and he puts them back in corner to do over 20%!
You always have the 2BAR Forward throw option if not doing these push setups.


I watched Sonics stream with Honeybee with Sonic in practice yesterday using Reptile Cyrax and he just discovered the Bomb setups and push setup. Honeybee said "doesn't everyone have this" and Sonic said: "No only like 3 Characters have the hit advantage to setup bomb/push throw without having 5+ options to punish/get away so it's not strong for most characters"
Then I labbed it and found Sub Zero, Reptile and Sindel has these setups.
I learned Sindel setups from ScarsUnseen which is a great Cyrax player from previous games and she's a legit lab monster. Cyrax loyalist like Brady and Sikander are with Sub.
Sonic Showed Reptile potential with Cyrax.
I discovered Subs by applying something he did with Reptile and going through every button Sub has for best advantage/OKI



Her doing it in real sets:

As far as I knew no real setups existed with bomb setups after patch because most chars can't safely get bomb out cuz it's a summon.
Click to expand...
This is really good. If it’s possible could you post a midscreen Sub/Cyrax combo? I know he allows you to combo after slide.
 
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Amplified$hotz said:
This is really good. If it’s possible could you post a midscreen Sub/Cyrax combo? I know he allows you to combo after slide.
Click to expand...
I'll try to do some combos when I get back there. It's the same as Prepatch, the up Kopter isn't hard at all when done on combos instead of back throw.
He should combo from B4/B34/B2(late)/F123 anything that knocks down or pops them up.
Probably use J21 for optimal or the J12, J12 BnB's
 
E

Eji1700

Kombatant
Amplified$hotz said:
For anyone who has trouble fighting Sub-Zero.
How to punish D1 xx klone on block:
(The Johnny Cage one is fake)

How to punish D1 xx klone on hit: https://x.com/x_azeez3/status/1732821445078626612?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg
Click to expand...
Real life has been kicking me in the teeth so I have had very little time to actually play. Mostly just watching footage, reading up on whats going on, and hoping I'll have time again soon to play.

But man does this feel good to see because I had the reiko one happen to me in a match(I think vs the AI no less?) and thought "hmm...that's concerning. I should lab that" and never got around to it.

I get that people are often hyperbolic about games, ESPECIALLY competitive ones, but every time I see people putting sub in B or C or whatever tier with scorp I struggle to not roll my eyes. He's so fundamentally flawed in so many places. LKM is putting in fucking work, but the more people lab the matchup the worse this is going to get, and I really wonder how reliable any of it will be in person.

I still maintain that sub as is will not be taking a top 8 at a major.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Eji1700 said:
Real life has been kicking me in the teeth so I have had very little time to actually play. Mostly just watching footage, reading up on whats going on, and hoping I'll have time again soon to play.

But man does this feel good to see because I had the reiko one happen to me in a match(I think vs the AI no less?) and thought "hmm...that's concerning. I should lab that" and never got around to it.

I get that people are often hyperbolic about games, ESPECIALLY competitive ones, but every time I see people putting sub in B or C or whatever tier with scorp I struggle to not roll my eyes. He's so fundamentally flawed in so many places. LKM is putting in fucking work, but the more people lab the matchup the worse this is going to get, and I really wonder how reliable any of it will be in person.

I still maintain that sub as is will not be taking a top 8 at a major.
Click to expand...
I agree.

However I do think Sub-Zero could place top 8 if the stars align. Because most people (even so called pros) don’t lab as much as they want you to think they do.

However, viability to me is the likelihood of a character winning a tournament. Not just placing. In my opinion real competitors travel to win. I think his chances of winning a major are next to nothing.

Hopefully there are buffs when Quan Chi drops this month.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.