Shang Tsung General Discussion

[The_Tile]

Again let's see which Kameo will work best but it looks like Cyrax is probably the easiest to use with this tech

This is awkward to do I'm just going to start using it so it becomes muscle-memory

This is a gimmick its definitely not safe. I tried doing it against Cage's Enhanced Shadow Kick and i got punished everytime. The only way this works is if you morf into df2.

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Mentioned this earlier on in the thread. With this morph into young Shang x Cyrax gets absolutely insane pressure. Inputs are...

F4121xxDF2(Morph), Cyrax F4121... rinse repeat

Crazy pressure, crazy chip.

 

[just_2swift]

Tip: if anyone doesn't know you can use 34+down for morph instead of d+L2

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Tip: if anyone doesn't know you can use 34+down for morph instead of d+L2

interesting. does that get past the input bug?
Edit: Just tested it and no it does not get past the bug.

 

[tanosergio05]

Hi all... Is there a way to cancel old f3? I mean... not with db1 into combo... like Rain's overhead cancels into throw...

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Hi all... Is there a way to cancel old f3? I mean... not with db1 into combo... like Rain's overhead cancels into throw...

Not as far as I'm aware.

 

[just_2swift]

Sacrifice dmg for pressure. Spikes on wake up becomes -7 ex, +10. Pretty sure you go for other follow ups I was just messing around.

Ending in df2 can give crazy mind games if they're conditioned to block low on wake up.

Still working on optimization just a concept. Just posting to give some ideas.

 

[Marinjuana]

Patch Notes Oct 23 2023

Shang Tsung

• Major Complications (Jump + Front Punch, Back Punch, Back Punch) hit reaction adjusted

• Festering Wounds (Jump + Back Punch, Back Punch) hit reaction adjusted

• Injection has increased combo damage scaling when hit out of synced animation

• Ground Skull & (Air) Down Skull special moves build less Super Meter on hit

• Invisibility moves used during Form Stealer will no longer sometimes prevent Shang Tsung from returning to his base form

• The Klassic (Down + Back Punch) brutality can now be performed when morphed into opponent

• Fixed face animations sometimes not working as intended when morphing into opponent

• Fixed situations where incorrect animation when Old Form Shang Tsung is defeated by a Brutality

• Fixed AI getting stuck in situations where they stay in Old Form or Young Form for the rest of the match

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Patch Notes Oct 23 2023

Shang Tsung

• Major Complications (Jump + Front Punch, Back Punch, Back Punch) hit reaction adjusted

• Festering Wounds (Jump + Back Punch, Back Punch) hit reaction adjusted

• Injection has increased combo damage scaling when hit out of synced animation

• Ground Skull & (Air) Down Skull special moves build less Super Meter on hit

• Invisibility moves used during Form Stealer will no longer sometimes prevent Shang Tsung from returning to his base form

• The Klassic (Down + Back Punch) brutality can now be performed when morphed into opponent

• Fixed face animations sometimes not working as intended when morphing into opponent

• Fixed situations where incorrect animation when Old Form Shang Tsung is defeated by a Brutality

• Fixed AI getting stuck in situations where they stay in Old Form or Young Form for the rest of the match

Our A2A conversions are easier now but other than that we still suffer from input issues so bleh.

 

[just_2swift]

Wall carry concept. Just messing around.

 

[just_2swift]

Used to do 397 pre patch.

 

[Snowblind]

I found this with him

Could a similar sequence be done with Goro? Plus frames pressure off young's claw slashes?

 

[M2Dave]

Could a similar sequence be done with Goro? Plus frames pressure off young's claw slashes?

Possibly, but there is more timing involved and the block advantage may not be as high as kopter chopper.

Speaking of Young Shang's claw slashes, I am not sure if already known or not, but you can combo after the EX version, which gives you a safe, armored launcher. There are two feasible combos, depending when you summon Goro.

• EX claw slashes (young form), mid up punch, switch to old form, far ground skull (opponent gravitates toward you), mid skill, 4, d,b+3. Around 19% of damage.
• EX claw slashes (young form), mid up punch, switch to old form, far ground skull (opponent gravitates away from you), far ground skull, far ground skull. Around 16.5% of damage. A fourth ground skull is technically possible yet extremely difficult.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Thoughts on making Shang's B223 string end in an overhead? Would give us a reason to use the string.
Also buff old man walk back speed.

 

[Marinjuana]

Thoughts on making Shang's B223 string end in an overhead? Would give us a reason to use the string.
Also buff old man walk back speed.

I think it's useful, hits low, mixes with kameo overheads, safe except for a couple pokes*, no gap, armor trap after, decent stagger string, hit confirmable string, mid starter, hit advantage on B22, and it has massive hit advantage. I've been using it lately to try to get better oki

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

I think it's useful, hits low, mixes with kameo overheads, safe, no gap, armor trap after, decent stagger string, hit confirmable string, mid starter, hit advantage on B22, and it has massive hit advantage. I've been using it lately to try to get better oki

I havent found a good reason to ever use it. If I can connect B2 then I can connect F4 and F4 does everything I want. The low ender is fine but relying on a kameo for a mix isnt ideal. Stryker already has his own mix and the only other OH options are Darrius [late hitting] Scorpion [slow]
I just cant see myself using the string with Shang/Stryker. Like B4+Grenades is literally all you need since it auto shimmies on connection and forces your turn since they cant armor through through it. B2 being 14 frames also makes it harder to jail after. Yes F4 is only 1 frame faster but it leads into potential staggers and Stryker nets me a mix on his own.

Also the second part is a high but they cant duck it if the mid connects. I'm not saying it cant work but I prefer consistency over opportunity.
If I cant guarantee the result then I'm probably not going to do it but I know not everybody plays like this.

TLDR: I Flowchart Shang and B223 doesnt fit within the chart.

 

[G82Boost]

 

[Marinjuana]

Possibly, but there is more timing involved and the block advantage may not be as high as kopter chopper.

Speaking of Young Shang's claw slashes, I am not sure if already known or not, but you can combo after the EX version, which gives you a safe, armored launcher. There are two feasible combos, depending when you summon Goro.

• EX claw slashes (young form), mid up punch, switch to old form, far ground skull (opponent gravitates toward you), mid skill, 4, d,b+3. Around 19% of damage.
• EX claw slashes (young form), mid up punch, switch to old form, far ground skull (opponent gravitates away from you), far ground skull, far ground skull. Around 16.5% of damage. A fourth ground skull is technically possible yet extremely difficult.

I think you can also get consistent combos from Darius kick and Cyrax copter though the latter is janky

 

[Marinjuana]

I havent found a good reason to ever use it. If I can connect B2 then I can connect F4 and F4 does everything I want. The low ender is fine but relying on a kameo for a mix isnt ideal. Stryker already has his own mix and the only other OH options are Darrius [late hitting] Scorpion [slow]
I just cant see myself using the string with Shang/Stryker. Like B4+Grenades is literally all you need since it auto shimmies on connection and forces your turn since they cant armor through through it. B2 being 14 frames also makes it harder to jail after. Yes F4 is only 1 frame faster but it leads into potential staggers and Stryker nets me a mix on his own.

Also the second part is a high but they cant duck it if the mid connects. I'm not saying it cant work but I prefer consistency over opportunity.
If I cant guarantee the result then I'm probably not going to do it but I know not everybody plays like this.

TLDR: I Flowchart Shang and B223 doesnt fit within the chart.

Well if you don't like it from neutral you can try F4121~DF1, 4~DF1, 4~DF1, B223 (Wait until they are low for the B223)

Gives you all the close oki options of B223 on hit like armor break with kameos or the cross up jump. You lose damage obviously but it's a lot of hit advantage to work with. There's times where I'd rather keep them close then knock them full screen with injection

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Well if you don't like it from neutral you can try F4121~DF1, 4~DF1, 4~DF1, B223 (Wait until they are low for the B223)

Gives you all the close oki options of B223 on hit like armor break with kameos or the cross up jump. You lose damage obviously but it's a lot of hit advantage to work with. There's times where I'd rather keep them close then knock them full screen with injection

Just tested it.

The route you gave me does 362.98
The "optimized" version of that does 363.48
The unoptimized B4 ender does 364.27
The optimized B4 ender does 375.00

Some CONS I noticed while playing around with the string to find uses

• Much harder to combo into. The last hit whiffs so much. It feels as annoying as trying to find the right height for the 3rd 4 with the old optimal route
• Less damage as shown above
• Doesnt guarantee a jump in but I dont think there are safe-jumps in this game so I dont really count this one.

PROS

• 44 frames of knockdown lets you sneak in 2 back dashes to create space

I end with B4+Grenades. B4 is +14 on hit and is 1 button so I just press them at the same time as my assist and I get oki without having to worry about timing anything. 44 frames is too long on the ground and messes up the Flow but it might work for you..

Speaking of useless strings, Old B12 doesnt make sense. Yes, the vision is to hit confirm it if you get the hit or swap to old to make it safe if they block but NO ONE is doing 1 button hit confirms consistently. There is almost no reason to ever use it like that. At worst it's a stagger button that you never actually confirm because:

• 1 button confirm
• death on block
• High starter
• Has a gap when doing the "safe version".

OLD B12 is an Awful string.

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

I havent found a good reason to ever use it. If I can connect B2 then I can connect F4 and F4 does everything I want. The low ender is fine but relying on a kameo for a mix isnt ideal. Stryker already has his own mix and the only other OH options are Darrius [late hitting] Scorpion [slow]
I just cant see myself using the string with Shang/Stryker. Like B4+Grenades is literally all you need since it auto shimmies on connection and forces your turn since they cant armor through through it. B2 being 14 frames also makes it harder to jail after. Yes F4 is only 1 frame faster but it leads into potential staggers and Stryker nets me a mix on his own.

Also the second part is a high but they cant duck it if the mid connects. I'm not saying it cant work but I prefer consistency over opportunity.
If I cant guarantee the result then I'm probably not going to do it but I know not everybody plays like this.

TLDR: I Flowchart Shang and B223 doesnt fit within the chart.

Can you upload some matches ?

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

I'm probably going to upload some matches I need to know what other people are actually doing.

Also how is it I have negative edge on and input timing to medium and when I do a full combo into db3 somehow it gives me soul swap. I check the match replays and it shows me doing the correct input I lose a few matches just because of this

 

[LEGEND]

I'm probably going to upload some matches I need to know what other people are actually doing.

Also how is it I have negative edge on and input timing to medium and when I do a full combo into db3 somehow it gives me soul swap. I check the match replays and it shows me doing the correct input I lose a few matches just because of this

Not sure how long the window for medium is but it still feels pretty lax. So, I can see it causing issues with negative edge

Negative edge just causes all kinds of problems like that. Not really worth using.

 

[G82Boost]

 

[G82Boost]

 

[navvy]

So I came up to a conclusion that if you want to play Shang at his full potential you have to use ex morph, otherwise you play him like a without one arm. I think he has no tools to compete with many characters by himself, but can do tons of damage while morphed, what do you guys think?