Should we have more defensive options?

[Kiss the Missile]

Game isn't out yet, blah blah blah, I know. This thread was going to be made regardless.

With the recent reveal of the Uppercut cancel, its possible there are more mechanics we haven't seen yet. So far we've seen a weakened Flawless Block, wakeup attacks, delayed wakeup and UpBlock. After watching Smoke's insane setplay capabilities yesterday I have to wonder if its gonna be enough. I don't believe we've seen if BlockBreaker is back.

With the u2 and u3 reversals gone, I think Flawless Block should be brought back to its old glory. Being able to reduce blockstun.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

There's also the return of last breath/chip negation. Personally the only thing I'd add is the option to wakeup with any special move, not just kameo wakeup or one armored special. Otherwise, no, everything seems fine.

 

[Eddy Wang]

There is also armored attacks in the game, which are get off me moves, the rest like flawless block, it's just the icing of the cake imo, as even meterless you have a form of defense in the game.

Down pokes are far more negatives in the game, so they can't be spammed, and breaker costs 3 bars

This feels like the true Sequel of what MK9 should've been, and i'm glad i'm alive to play it, just about to make my pre-order because now i feel like i will definitely enjoy this game, so getting it ahead of the release makes sense now, specially with everything we know about the game.


They are also more open to communication, and have more ex competitive players in the QA not only for testing but for advice, analysis and so on, which takes NRS on the same scale as Tekken in the balancing team and Street Fighter, i was worried about the game in the begginning, but now i'm confident i will hold on well, specially if plays good, and feels, good, and looks good, we might be in for a longer support overall and maybe even get the same ammount of numbers as the rest of the big 3.


My only concern so far is the Kameo System, but they are analysing this as well on the cost of move usage, we'll see how it plays out, if anything, maybe MK2 will be without Kameos but if they stick with this formula, will definitely be a GOAT MK

 

[Kokoko]

I see no reason to speculate right now. You say "Game isn't out yet, blah blah blah". That's the answer. Talking now about what defensive options are needed and how to change the balance in the game is like asking for a character to be nerfed after the Kombat Kast. Back in the day I saw people say about MK 11 that the game is going to be crazier than MKX and NRS need to remove attack options and combos. During every Kombat Kast you could see "yo this shit is broken". Didn't age well.

With the recent reveal of the Uppercut cancel,

Yes, they added it, but it's crap, no? 2 meters to get them up in the air when you can punish them with any other button for free and get more damage.

After watching Smoke's insane setplay capabilities yesterday

Personally, I don't understand what was seen in Smoke yesterday to say that he is insane. SZ looks much more dangerous with his 50/50.

I think Flawless Block should be brought back to its old glory

For casuals, it won't matter. And all the pro players I know are always talking shit about this mechanic and hate it, I haven't seen any positive feedback. So, no.

 

[Eddy Wang]

For casuals, it won't matter. And all the pro players I know are always talking shit about this mechanic and hate it, I haven't seen any positive feedback. So, no.

Flawless block launchers shouldn't definitely be a thing, imagine being punished for gaining advantage.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I see no reason to speculate right now. You say "Game isn't out yet, blah blah blah". That's the answer. Talking now about what defensive options are needed and how to change the balance in the game is like asking for a character to be nerfed after the Kombat Kast. Back in the day I saw people say about MK 11 that the game is going to be crazier than MKX and NRS need to remove attack options and combos. During every Kombat Kast you could see "yo this shit is broken". Didn't age well.

Damn, its almost like this is a forum for discussion and speculation. Imagine that

Personally, I don't understand what was seen in Smoke yesterday to say that he is insane. SZ looks much more dangerous with his 50/50.

He turns invisible, has multiple specials he can cancel and has 50/50s. Please don't tell me you're one of those "I can block all that bro"

And all the pro players I know are always talking shit about this mechanic and hate it, I haven't seen any positive feedback. So, no.

They didn't like Flawless Block launchers and reversals.

 

[Eddy Wang]

He turns invisible, has multiple specials he can cancel and has 50/50s. Please don't tell me you're one of those "I can block all that bro"

If he gets hit or jumps, he appears, you have options here, on top of having armor, just play the game first, we'll see how it unfolds

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

If he gets hit or jumps, he appears

Wait, I must've not paid enough attention. He turns visible if he jumps? Like, neutral jump/cross over jump?

 

[Rude]

I liked Flawless Block as it functioned in MK11. It's a reward for skill and making the correct read. Its not like people didn't have options to bait and punish flawless block attempts, because they do.

There are a lot of factors though, since we haven't seen any frame data or in depth info on how Kameos/strings function frame wise. It's entirely possible that such Reversals aren't needed.

We don't know yet. The defensive mechanics seem pretty good, but I highly doubt the community will stay satisfied with them.

Fighting game players, especially competitive ones, are notoriously inconsistent and fickle. They think they know what they want but they often don't.

I suppose we'll find out soon but I'm curious about this up block for jump ins. And while there are players calling the d2 mechanic, "useless," the fact is it is never a bad thing to have more options.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Wait, I must've not paid enough attention. He turns visible if he jumps? Like, neutral jump/cross over jump?

he jumped a projectile on stream and he appeared

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

he jumped a projectile on stream and he appeared

I was under the impression the timer on the invisibility had just run out or something. Did Stephanie comment on that specifically?

 

[1man3letters]

There's also the return of last breath/chip negation. Personally the only thing I'd add is the option to wakeup with any special move, not just kameo wakeup or one armored special. Otherwise, no, everything seems fine.

Source for last breath being back??

 

[Eddy Wang]

I was under the impression the timer on the invisibility had just run out or something. Did Stephanie comment on that specifically?

no, but it was very sudden as well, its not that he appeared mid jump, as soon as he started jumping he appeared, it was definitely weird.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Source for last breath being back??

I think Rooflemonger covered that at EVO

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Source for last breath being back??

I saw some youtube video showing it... perhaps Ketchup and Mustard?

 

[Juggs]

Depends on what you mean by “defensive options”. I’m assuming you’re referring to the universal ones. For those defensive options we have: Block, Flawless Block, Up Block, Breakers, Armored Wakeup Attacks, Kameo Summon Wakeup Attacks, Delayed Wakeup, The D2 combo cancel mechanic that costs meter (which definitely can be considered a defensive option imo), etc. And this is just what we know about, there could be more universal defensive options.

And you also have character specific ones as well as using your Kameos as a defensive option.

Just based on what we know so far, I think there’s plenty of defensive options.

 

[Kokoko]

Damn, its almost like this is a forum for discussion and speculation. Imagine that

No need to get offensive. Like you said, this is a discussion and I expressed my opinion. We just saw two people in the training press buttons and said that what we see will change 100%. And also played during the stress test, in comparison with which the beta will be a completely different game after all the changes made. I think, it's too early to discuss how the game needs to be changed, it needs to be played for at least a few months first.

you're one of those "I can block all that bro"

I'm absolutely not. But I also remember that in MKX Reptile could become invisible and he had his 50/50. Which absolutely didn't help him become a top tier. And in all recent NRS games characters needed a good advanced mid to be really good. Which Smoke doesn't seem to have. Plus, getting damage after Smoke's 50/50 seems to be only possible with a kameo or meter, which will make him more vulnerable in defense. I think SZ looks way more scarier.


Btw this is one of the main reasons why other FG communities hate on MK and MK players. Plus, don't take us seriously. They most often condemn us for asking to change the game instead of playing it. And if you think that this is not true, chat a little with them. Maybe someone will say "what's the difference". But don't be offended next time when some SF players think we're second rate.

 

[Metin]

Flawless Block revearsals with armored specials,upblock and kameos. Yes, we also need a character called Untouchable.

 

[Juggs]

Btw this is one of the main reasons why other FG communities hate on MK and MK players. Plus, don't take us seriously. They most often condemn us for asking to change the game instead of playing it. And if you think that this is not true, chat a little with them. Maybe someone will say "what's the difference". But don't be offended next time when some SF players think we're second rate.

I could write so much about this, and actually did, but deleted it. It’s just way too long for people to want to read and it harps on things I’ve already said a dozen times anyway.

But yeah, everyone needs to chill and wait for the game to come out before they go into panic mode. AND before they start screaming from the rooftops that nerfs need to start happening. Really hoping NRS finally takes the advice of buffing more than they nerf. Otherwise in a year or 2, MK1 will be back to being just as boring as the rest of the NRS games ended up being at the end of their lifespan (aside from MK9)

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Nobody is asking for nerfs, I was asking if defense should be buffed. Its simple speculation you cats don't have to be so offended lmao

 

[Rude]

No need to get offensive. Like you said, this is a discussion and I expressed my opinion. We just saw two people in the training press buttons and said that what we see will change 100%. And also played during the stress test, in comparison with which the beta will be a completely different game after all the changes made. I think, it's too early to discuss how the game needs to be changed, it needs to be played for at least a few months first.

I'm absolutely not. But I also remember that in MKX Reptile could become invisible and he had his 50/50. Which absolutely didn't help him become a top tier. And in all recent NRS games characters needed a good advanced mid to be really good. Which Smoke doesn't seem to have. Plus, getting damage after Smoke's 50/50 seems to be only possible with a kameo or meter, which will make him more vulnerable in defense. I think SZ looks way more scarier.


Btw this is one of the main reasons why other FG communities hate on MK and MK players. Plus, don't take us seriously. They most often condemn us for asking to change the game instead of playing it. And if you think that this is not true, chat a little with them. Maybe someone will say "what's the difference". But don't be offended next time when some SF players think we're second rate.

Maybe Deceptive Reptile wasn't top tier, but I'm pretty sure Nimble Reptile was up there.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Nobody is asking for nerfs, I was asking if defense should be buffed. Its simple speculation you cats don't have to be so offended lmao

just out of curiosity, what else do you think the game needs defensively, remember that we haven't played the game yet.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

If anything, after MK11 it was offense that needed more options so all of these things like meterless launchers and more 50/50s are more like course corrections to contend with the already strong defensive options. Also keep in mind that flawless block actually got a massive buff (imo) in that you can activate it mid string even if there are no gaps.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

just out of curiosity, what else do you think the game needs defensively, remember that we haven't played the game yet.

Idk if its in yet, I don't remember seeing it, but I think Block Breaker is a good addition.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Idk if its in yet, I don't remember seeing it, but I think Block Breaker is a good addition.

You mean pushblock? I think that could work yes, but at cost of how much meter?