With proper Kameo usage, will unsafe moves truly be unsafe?

[TheyMoveBelow]

Kameo meter seems to regenerate very quickly and with kameo attacks like delayed Kano ball for instance that can be set up on Oki and is plus on block…it literally makes a potentially unsafe attack…safe.

It’s really interesting to be honest, but I’m afraid that the game will boil down to a handful of the best Kameos and they’ll all you’ll eventually see.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Not only safe, but potentially PLUS. However, they might balance around it having gaps so you can armor through it. Right now, there's little we can do but wait for the Beta to play again and give some feedback - which, thankfully, is being listened to already.

 

[SaltShaker]

I think we've already seen Kameos provide 50/50 reset pressure that's safe on block and kills you after the reset, and that's with 4 characters and 3 Kameos. It's probably safe to assume the type of game we are getting at this point. GGST levels of pressure and resets.

 

[PapaRegadetho]

The game is going to be the most degenerate NRS title by far. Be ready folks.

 

[Marlow]

Especially early on I think we’ll see roughly the same small list of characters and kameos dominate the tournament scene. Money is on the line, so simple characters with easy strategies tend to be pretty strong and picked a lot early.

I’m guessing we’ll see the same thing with kameos. People will flock to the 3-4 “strong “ kameo characters, before eventually figuring out ways to use other kameos.

 

[Eji1700]

I mean it's going to be just like most other games with assists, with the only potential issue I see right now is you don't have "beam" style moves to punish the assist call even if they're hidden behind the opponent, and of course you don't need to kill 2/3 characters.

These games are always hyper aggressive and based around assist calls allowing degenerate nonsense, but it's just a different kind of balance.

Hitting your opponents kameo or running them out of meter is likely going to be a very big window. As for "just a couple of kameo's seeing use", yeah that's the nature of it. At the very least the multi move kameo's helps a ton (and isn't something I think i've seen before and a brilliant decision?), so even if one particular ability is weak or niche (say scorps spear pulling you back), you'll still have something to cover your approach/extend your combos/get someone off of you.

Good assist design helps extend usage. UMvC3 has a surprisingly large cast that's viable and part of that is because of assist synergy. Sure characters like zero/vergil/doom go anywhere but you can be threatening with nearly every character in the cast if you build your team right. I hope MK can thread that needle as well.

I do expect more than the usual amount of whining for balance changes month one because it seems like this will be the first rodeo with assists for a lot of MK players. It's going to take a different approach to think about and get around, and the standard for whats allowed is going to be much much higher.

 

[LiuKangmain]

They said "This game is about fun" meaning all the balance is outta the window. The more character they show the more fucked up the mechanics. Imagine Smoke being literally untouchable for 5 seconds. Or, I don't know, Raiden dealing dot for standing near him and getting stunned for being close for 10 seconds.

 

[molambo]

i dont recall when exactly you can call them, is it possible to get yours out while you are in a blockstring that is caused due to your opponents kameo or is there a gap that allows you to counter with your own kameo summon?

 

[Marinjuana]

Going to be like Brainiacs trait all day

 

[Deleted member 5032]

i dont recall when exactly you can call them, is it possible to get yours out while you are in a blockstring that is caused due to your opponents kameo or is there a gap that allows you to counter with your own kameo summon?

Different kameos have different rules regarding when they can be called. However, we have already seen that Kenshi can summon a special ghost that functions as a kameo, but remains on screen, can be directly controlled via negative-edge, and can even attack while the player is blocking.

To address OP: Yes, it seems that way. As we've seen with the delayed Kano Ball kameo, characters will have access to tools that allow them to cover their gaps, unsafe strings, approach, jump-ins, and just about anything else.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I mean it's going to be just like most other games with assists, with the only potential issue I see right now is you don't have "beam" style moves to punish the assist call even if they're hidden behind the opponent, and of course you don't need to kill 2/3 characters.

These games are always hyper aggressive and based around assist calls allowing degenerate nonsense, but it's just a different kind of balance.

Hitting your opponents kameo or running them out of meter is likely going to be a very big window. As for "just a couple of kameo's seeing use", yeah that's the nature of it. At the very least the multi move kameo's helps a ton (and isn't something I think i've seen before and a brilliant decision?), so even if one particular ability is weak or niche (say scorps spear pulling you back), you'll still have something to cover your approach/extend your combos/get someone off of you.

Good assist design helps extend usage. UMvC3 has a surprisingly large cast that's viable and part of that is because of assist synergy. Sure characters like zero/vergil/doom go anywhere but you can be threatening with nearly every character in the cast if you build your team right. I hope MK can thread that needle as well.

I do expect more than the usual amount of whining for balance changes month one because it seems like this will be the first rodeo with assists for a lot of MK players. It's going to take a different approach to think about and get around, and the standard for whats allowed is going to be much much higher.

Honestly thats what Kano's summon attack should be. The eye laser should blast through the opponent and hit the Kameo too. As it is now its pretty useless.

 

[Eji1700]

They said "This game is about fun" meaning all the balance is outta the window.

I think that's a bad way to look at it.

For marketing/sales reasons at the minimum, it's not a great look if every top 32 is the same characters. Yes rushdown/zoning will be gross and there's going to be hellish setups, but that doesn't mean that the game can't be balanced.

Honestly thats what Kano's summon attack should be. The eye laser should blast through the opponent and hit the Kameo too. As it is now its pretty useless.

It strikes me as filling the same role as sub's ex iceball in...i think it was 9? A beam that's going to catch people jumping over your projectiles and push them back to have to run the gauntlet again.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

MKX and MK11 both had massive gameplay overhauls late into their lives.

I'm calling it now, at some point MK1's overhaul is gonna let you choose 2 Kameos that you switch between in a fight.

 

[Juggs]

Assists can be used for several different things. Including, but not limited to things like extending combo’s, making something safe or safer, mobility, mixups/safe mixups, zoning, etc etc.

So yes, certain Kameos aka Assists will be able to make unsafe things safe. I can’t wait to see all if what the Kameos have to offer, it adds another huge layer of depth to the game.

 

[Shania Twain]

Correct me if I'm wrong but characters like Johnny Cage who can't zone or teleport can provide interesting concepts. Kung Lao for example.

 

[The Ultimate]

Right now, I think the way Kameos work, particularly the meter, is fine. It takes 10-12 seconds for the Kameo meter to fill halfway, and if the Kameo is hit, you can't use them and the meter stops recharging for a full 10-12 seconds, which is particularly debilitating if you managed to hit the Kameo when the meter was empty, that means your opponent couldn't use it for a full 20 seconds or so. Imagine if it worked that way in Marvel vs Capcom. It's gonna take a while for the competitive meta to develop with this game, I think a much longer time than MK11 did, at least.

The only thing I'd say I'm not super keen on is the Kameo meter recharging during end-of-round taunts, I don't think it should recharge during that period of time...'guess that's one other thing from MK11 that needed to return in this game.

 

[Eddy Wang]

there is no such things as unsafe in this game lmao.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

People are overreacting I think. You guys are forgetting that Kameos are involved in everything. So if somebody uses a Kameo say in neutral to gain advantage, then use their Kameo again when they're upclose to protect themselves, then they finally open you up for a combo, they don't have that Kameo for the extension.

Using a Kameo to keep your blockstring safe isn't just a free commodity. Depending on how much meter you had when you called it, you just gave up your combo extension, your wakeup attack, your fatal blow, your breaker.

 

[LiuKangmain]

People are overreacting I think. You guys are forgetting that Kameos are involved in everything. So if somebody uses a Kameo say in neutral to gain advantage, then use their Kameo again when they're upclose to protect themselves, then they finally open you up for a combo, they don't have that Kameo for the extension.

Using a Kameo to keep your blockstring safe isn't just a free commodity. Depending on how much meter you had when you called it, you just gave up your combo extension, your wakeup attack, your fatal blow, your breaker.

Which means if they actually balance stuff they'll come up with cameo exclusive cooldown time. Really some cameos should have one bar instead of two.

 

[Eddy Wang]

People are overreacting I think. You guys are forgetting that Kameos are involved in everything. So if somebody uses a Kameo say in neutral to gain advantage, then use their Kameo again when they're upclose to protect themselves, then they finally open you up for a combo, they don't have that Kameo for the extension.

Using a Kameo to keep your blockstring safe isn't just a free commodity. Depending on how much meter you had when you called it, you just gave up your combo extension, your wakeup attack, your fatal blow, your breaker.

i'm actually thinking the same way, kameo setups look nice but cost resources, as long as breakers stays 3 bars i don't care how they use kameo in the game. So effectively playing with this in mind, has a sort of similarity with what SF6 is running along with depleting the drive gauge to easily achieve burnouts.

i think MK1 will benefict in the same scenario.

i just wish hitting a kameo in the game would cost them a bit of the gauge and if they are in the overused mode, give them a time penalty before the refill starts just in case they become too bloated.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Which means if they actually balance stuff they'll come up with cameo exclusive cooldown time. Really some cameos should have one bar instead of two.

Limiting things like that is what they're trying to avoid. They tried to be overbearing balance lords in MK11 by telling us what variations we could use, then when they finally made them custom they still put restrictions on what can be used with what and what couldn't.

I say fuck that bullshit. Let it all rock.

 

[LiuKangmain]

Limiting things like that is what they're trying to avoid. They tried to be overbearing balance lords in MK11 by telling us what variations we could use, then when they finally made them custom they still put restrictions on what can be used with what and what couldn't.

I say fuck that bullshit. Let it all rock.

So no real competitive play...at least balanced one

 

[ThingFish]

Stuff being a little unbalanced is much better than what happened with 11, NRS games are all at their best when they are a little fucked up and bullshit, obviously I dont want to get infinited to death every game, but some bullshit is fine

 

[TheyMoveBelow]

I can’t remember what video it was but there was this really good Sub-Zero player who just kept setting up delayed Kano ball and clones in the corner against the opponent and it just seemed so ridiculously oppressive. I’m sure the other guy could have maybe armored out more often but didn’t really to know when to do it.

He was getting pretty mixed up as well between the low and the overheads. (Already sounds like I’m talking about MK11 )

And it really seemed like the meter regeneration on Kano ball was fast. Any time they ended up in the corner which was often, Kano ball was available.

So idk, I’m sure things will change over time, but that was pretty nuts to see.

 

[Marlow]

People are overreacting I think. You guys are forgetting that Kameos are involved in everything. So if somebody uses a Kameo say in neutral to gain advantage, then use their Kameo again when they're upclose to protect themselves, then they finally open you up for a combo, they don't have that Kameo for the extension.

Using a Kameo to keep your blockstring safe isn't just a free commodity. Depending on how much meter you had when you called it, you just gave up your combo extension, your wakeup attack, your fatal blow, your breaker.

I agree. I think a lot will depend on how quickly Kameo meter regenerates, but essentially it comes down to resource allocation. I also wonder if there might be Kameos to try and negate an opponent's plus strings, something like a teleport, armored mobility move, or a shield/barrier of some kind.