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Toms conversation podcast with Tigerzz

Chernyy Volk

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.

Curious what you guys think about this? I didn't see anyone post it yet so yeah.

I'd make smartass comments here like, it's almost like Tigerzz (and every top player I've spoken to in private) has been parroting every single criticism etc I've levied at the game since launch but you know.

But what do you guys think? Here's a respected top player who is more than willing to dunk on the game and reinforces a lot of the criticisms the game has received. Do you guys think he's wrong? Stupid? Correct? What's your take?
 
D

DethRaze

Noob
I like tigerz because he's honest about his character and the cheese he uses. From the pros down to even the random on KL, nobody seems to want to admit that the characters they play have cheese. Yet everybody else needs to "git gud" when they win, and everything that beats them is "no skill scrub stuff."

Sheeva's stomp is obviously too good. But fujin can combo launch from half to 3/4 screen . Jacqui can do meterless combos from a leap that goes full screen. Cetrions has a million options on top of having amazing buttons and being able to teleport in or out as the situation dictates.

But it's ok that they have these options if other characters can do similar things. But we're either bricked by the variation system or the moves are flat out banned. Terminator has incapacitator in a preset, yet skarlet can't have killer clot. Again, jacqui and her unbreakable damage. But kitana had her plus frames from up fan taken so she can't do unbreakable damage with it. Mileena literally has half her kustoms taken up by different versions of her base moves. BUT SHE WAS DESIGNED TO RELEASE WITH CUSTOMS. Meaning they definitely did it on purpose.
 
Chernyy Volk

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
DethRaze said:
I like tigerz because he's honest about his character and the cheese he uses. From the pros down to even the random on KL, nobody seems to want to admit that the characters they play have cheese. Yet everybody else needs to "git gud" when they win, and everything that beats them is "no skill scrub stuff."

Sheeva's stomp is obviously too good. But fujin can combo launch from half to 3/4 screen . Jacqui can do meterless combos from a leap that goes full screen. Cetrions has a million options on top of having amazing buttons and being able to teleport in or out as the situation dictates.

But it's ok that they have these options if other characters can do similar things. But we're either bricked by the variation system or the moves are flat out banned. Terminator has incapacitator in a preset, yet skarlet can't have killer clot. Again, jacqui and her unbreakable damage. But kitana had her plus frames from up fan taken so she can't do unbreakable damage with it. Mileena literally has half her kustoms taken up by different versions of her base moves. BUT SHE WAS DESIGNED TO RELEASE WITH CUSTOMS. Meaning they definitely did it on purpose.
Click to expand...
These issues I think, well, I THINK ANYWAY, are universally agreed upon. I do not think Fujin is a good design though. He literally deletes half of the game just by being on screen. That's not unique or cool, that's just him shitting all over the game. It's like if you were playing chess but your opponent, and only your opponent, can just knock over the chess board any time he wants to. That's Fujin.
 
Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
DethRaze said:
Terminator has incapacitator in a preset, yet skarlet can't have killer clot.
Click to expand...
I keep seeing these moves compared to each other but Incapacitator doesn't also lock the player's ability to special cancel in addition to the meter, whereas Clot does unless I'm mistaken.
Pretty important detail.
 
D

Deleted member 64931

Guest
Chernyy Volk said:
These issues I think, well, I THINK ANYWAY, are universally agreed upon. I do not think Fujin is a good design though. He literally deletes half of the game just by being on screen. That's not unique or cool, that's just him shitting all over the game. It's like if you were playing chess but your opponent, and only your opponent, can just knock over the chess board any time he wants to. That's Fujin.
Click to expand...
There are obvious different between Fujin and Atom, but did you have similar feelings towards Atom in injustice 2 with his ability o shit all over the neutral? I don't see a problem with fujin's design because the b2 actually does have to be directed. If you're one character length away a 3/4 screen b2 will whiff. Black Aadm could full combo launch from full screen. This is nothing new. Seeing Fujin placed in the same league as Jaqui or Sheeva or Cetrion is mind blowing to me. He's completely lab-able.
 
D

Deleted member 64931

Guest
Chernyy Volk said:
This is a dumb point because the execution for Jacqui isn't difficult and is just as braindead as Sheeva stomping once the muscle memory is there.
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Dude, Fujin played optimally is significantly harder than D-U and should be rewarded. Displacer radian had incredible difficult execution and should be rewarded. Before ultimate this character was mid tier at best and airsenal made buffed his meter management. You play easy AF characters like black manta and scorpion. Black manta btw pretty much shit all over that games neutral with his F2.
 
D

Deleted member 64931

Guest
Chernyy Volk said:
Of course you can. I literally beat Dragon today in KL because he missed some stomps because he read wrong.
Click to expand...
You got lucky is what you mean. You and tom brady are ignoring fighting game design 101, execution should be rewarded while entry level characters (lie kang) should really not be. There's no reason bicycle kick should be plus 40 on hit for instance , though i don't think it is anymore with the rising frame change.
 
Onryoki

Onryoki

We all die alone. So love yourself before you go.
Chernyy Volk said:
This is a dumb point because the execution for Jacqui isn't difficult and is just as braindead as Sheeva stomping once the muscle memory is there.
Click to expand...
Well to be fair, MK isn’t really known for its complex move inputs.
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Edit: cut
---
Tigerzz did a great job on exposing the game, I hope NRS adjustments are right around the corner.

"You can double flawless Kollector, as he is super lost with his hurtbox, a 10 0 matchup at best 9 1"
"Nah, its fair and balanced"
...
Everyone saying its fair and balanced, looks like a crazy fool to me (my view)
 
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Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Whatever issues you have with someone within the community that has nothing to do with the game itself (personal), that is your right, obviously. But it’s beyond unnecessary to bring it up in a thread that has nothing, at all, to do with your issues (or hatred) of that certain person. This isn’t me “hiding the truth” or “censoring you” or whatever other crazy thing some users say. It just isn’t warranted and causes a problem that YOU started. So yeah, any of that will be deleted.

If you have an issue with what someone on the podcast said, feel free to address that. Thanks.
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Juggs said:
This isn’t me “hiding the truth” or “censoring you”
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For sure it is!
But I said, if a mod wants to delete it, go for it, so I won't take it in a "bad" way

hint: you should also delete post #19, as people can still read my "story" :laughing:
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Ashesfall said:
For sure it is!
But I said, if a mod wants to delete it, go for it, so I won't take it in a "bad" way

hint: you should also delete post #19, as people can still read my "story" :laughing:
Click to expand...
I’m saying that isn’t the intent behind deleting the post. I think I’ve been fairly consistent on this subject across every thread. If there’s someone you dislike in a podcast for reasons outside of the contents within that podcast, it’s not only completely unnecessary to bring it up, it derails the thread and creates a toxic environment where in which there wasn’t one until said post. So in effect, you become the problem, even if bringing it up pails in comparison to what you’re actually bringing up.

I acknowledge that this response is further derailing the thread, but I wanted to make my position as clear as possible in an attempt to minimize the likelihood of this happening in the future.

Anyway, I appreciate the heads up about post #19, thank you.

Also, I believe the thread has been cleaned up. This goes to everyone, please let me know if I missed anything.
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Chernyy Volk said:
This is a dumb point because the execution for Jacqui isn't difficult and is just as braindead as Sheeva stomping once the muscle memory is there.
Click to expand...
Let me ask you this, you think you can teach your grandma to hit D and U?
You think you can also teach her this:
"f12~du~db1(en), j2, f12~du~db1(en), j2, f22, f22, f22, f3141+3"
(I copied from jacqui combo thread)
especially the f22, I find it to be tricky and has drop potential, I play on pad

because this is basically what KissTheMissile wanted to point out

you extreme hardcore guys only see the 1% elite (and we know now, even the 1%(!) has issues with it ...)

A developer should create a game in a way all people can enjoy it, without getting massive frustrated by ONE silly abusable move ...
 
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