TLOU2 Discussion Thread [NO LEAKS]

[Tony at Home]

Abby's a really good character, but definitely not one I'll "remember fondly", just since her story arch is super depressing.

To quote Mel:

Spoiler

I actually failed the Ellie vs Abby fight on the last chapter the first time I played it because my brain was noooot letting my thumbs hammer the square button to slowly plunge a knife into Abby.

The redeeming quality of Abby is she's knows she's irredeemable. Even Abby doesn't actually forgive herself, and she's left with protecting Lev as the only thing giving her purpose as a way to make the world slightly less shitty place than she's made it.

Abby's cruelty also indirectly got Owen killed and she's likely aware of that too. Not just by provoking Ellie though. The torture fucked Owen up mentally and he had reached his capacity to inflict harm, and Abby knows damn well she was a huge part in pushing him over that limit where he couldn't bring himself to kill that old scar, leading him to go AWOL along with all that bad that happened after.

 

[Vslayer]

Abby feeling like a "real" person may hold her back in this way, whereas the Arbiter is like a samurai inspired hulking badaass Alien and Raiden is a cyborg ninja, Abby hinges solely on of you like her. I can't really express how I feel about Abby, I don't like her, but I understand her? I guess? I do think the game went a little far in making Ellie such a piece of shit compared to Abby when you're being objective, but maybe that's just my preference and wouldn't have been better for the game. Would have actually liked a 3 way split between the Seattle events between Ellie, Tommy, and Abby, with a shorter epilogue.

I don't think Ellie is a bigger piece of shit, I think they are on the same path, just at different ends of it in the game. Ellie is still the hero. The fact that she had a panic attack after hitting Nora for info and after realizing Mel was pregnant speaks greatly to her as a character. Abby didn't feel that way. Ellie also saves, Lev, Abby and all the people who were held prisoners by the Rattlers. She made the right choice in the end. She wanted to give her life to give humanity a shot at a cure. IMO Ellie is the hero. They're not supposed to be perfect, they're supposed to make the hard and selfless decisions.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I don't think Ellie is a bigger piece of shit, I think they are on the same path, just at different ends of it in the game. Ellie is still the hero. The fact that she had a panic attack after hitting Nora for info and after realizing Mel was pregnant speaks greatly to her as a character. Abby didn't feel that way. Ellie also saves, Lev, Abby and all the people who were held prisoners by the Rattlers. She made the right choice in the end. She wanted to give her life to give humanity a shot at a cure. IMO Ellie is the hero. They're not supposed to be perfect, they're supposed to make the hard and selfless decisions.

I think Ellie basically became Joel, despite making the right choice at the very very end. She had every opportunity to stop her rampage. The thing is, Ellie's murder spree went across several days. Abby did her thing in an instant, and Joel went on his tear in like a 30 minute period, but the damage Ellie did was across days and felt far more deliberate and sinister. Ellie is the "hero" but is certainly not a good person, not that any of them are.

Ellie's desire to give her life for the "cure" is motivated mostly by her survivor's guilt for Riley's death in Left Behind, to help other people avoid the same fate, which makes sense with that in mind. However, it is nonsensical to think that the Fireflies could have pulled it off or that they would have had completely pure intentions. They manipulated Joel into taking Ellie across the country, knocked him out, didn't even give him the guns they owed him, were perfectly fine with killing him and Ellie BEFORE getting her consent, then acted like it was so shocking that Joel snapped and killed them. So basically, if Ellie thought about it with any semblance of logic, she would be grateful that Joel didn't let her die for nothing. Ellie at that point already WOULD and HAS killed to protect Joel, she should get it.

Spoiler

I'm glad they at least began the steps toward reconciliation before Joel died. Sucks ass that he died likely thinking that Ellie and Tommy were next. Depressing as fuck but effective story telling and motivation for the player for Ellie's campaign.

 

[Popegina]

I'm only 3 hours in and I'm barely skimming the comments here as to avoid spoilers. There's something I want to mention regarding the Abby character - I don't exactly know why there's been so much outrage, but I've noticed that in movies, sometimes an actor is so good at their role that casual idiots not only get mad at the fictional character, but attribute the performance to the actual human being.

So far I love this game. Like shit man, you can blow body parts off and you can smash windows to unlock doors. Underrated mechanics

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

The more I read and watch, the more pissed I get at the reviewers for throwing the game under the bus for Abby being a buff and rough killing machine. Could've 100,000% done without the awkward as hell sex scene, but she's absolutely a memorable and well thought out character who I hope comes back if there's ever a TLOU3, and i will be hype to play this game and experience Seattle in her boots.

Bunch of sexist dicks, I say.

 

[Saboteur-6]

I thought this was funny lol

 

[Dankster Morgan]

The more I read and watch, the more pissed I get at the reviewers for throwing the game under the bus for Abby being a buff and rough killing machine. Could've 100,000% done without the awkward as hell sex scene, but she's absolutely a memorable and well thought out character who I hope comes back if there's ever a TLOU3, and i will be hype to play this game and experience Seattle in her boots.

Bunch of sexist dicks, I say.

Abby spoilers

Spoiler

The sex scene was so fucking awkward lol. I saw pewdiepies reaction and he was all "the game that keeps on giving, that was very tasteful"

Abby has grown on me but is still a ruthless killer. She is only able to stop after she has killed Joel and caused the death of her friends, only doesnt want to fight Ellie in the end because she is emaciated. Both protagonists were honestly such pieces of shit that I couldn't imagine anyone really going that far, even for their fathers. Game just beats you over the head and has no subtlety or class. Lev and Dina are the only likable characters by the end.

 

[Vslayer]

The more I read and watch, the more pissed I get at the reviewers for throwing the game under the bus for Abby being a buff and rough killing machine. Could've 100,000% done without the awkward as hell sex scene, but she's absolutely a memorable and well thought out character who I hope comes back if there's ever a TLOU3, and i will be hype to play this game and experience Seattle in her boots.

Bunch of sexist dicks, I say.

Well you see, people will pretend to try and make arguments against Abby and Ellie to not seem misogynistic but really they're trying to cover up that two female protags isn't their cup of tea. Like I don't know if y'all ever played Gears of War, but Marcus the main character is built like a freaking bull. In the Gears world, the 'Gears' eat ration bars. The game doesn't say the nutritional value, but people assume it's protein bars. So you're telling me this big ass dude can stay that buff on protein bars and limited rations? But no guys it's fine, because he's a dude and they don't need to dissect everything about him.

Just the comments and the outrage from the 2018 trailer should tell you a whole lot about how people view gay/bi main characters.

Abby spoilers

Spoiler

The sex scene was so fucking awkward lol. I saw pewdiepies reaction and he was all "the game that keeps on giving, that was very tasteful"

Abby has grown on me but is still a ruthless killer. She is only able to stop after she has killed Joel and caused the death of her friends, only doesnt want to fight Ellie in the end because she is emaciated. Both protagonists were honestly such pieces of shit that I couldn't imagine anyone really going that far, even for their fathers. Game just beats you over the head and has no subtlety or class. Lev and Dina are the only likable characters by the end.

Why was it awkward? There's been similar scenes in movies and tv shows 100x times. Fight leads to sex. people are overreacting cause they just don't like Abby and the game and so they bash every single thing about it. Also who cares what youtubers say lmao, make your own opinion about it.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Well you see, people will pretend to try and make arguments against Abby and Ellie to not seem misogynistic but really they're trying to cover up that two female protags isn't their cup of tea. Like I don't know if y'all ever played Gears of War, but Marcus the main character is built like a freaking bull. In the Gears world, the 'Gears' eat ration bars. The game doesn't say the nutritional value, but people assume it's protein bars. So you're telling me this big ass dude can stay that buff on protein bars and limited rations? But no guys it's fine, because he's a dude and they don't need to dissect everything about him.

Just the comments and the outrage from the 2018 trailer should tell you a whole lot about how people view gay/bi main characters.



Why was it awkward? There's been similar scenes in movies and tv shows 100x times. Fight leads to sex. people are overreacting cause they just don't like Abby and the game and so they bash every single thing about it. Also who cares what youtubers say lmao, make your own opinion about it.

Those are my opinions lol i found the scene awkward, wasn't overly long or too hard to sit through, just didn't need it.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Abby getting it doggy was hot af.

 

[Vslayer]

And people who don't understand sex think it HAS to be anal lmao (which is why the trans stuff happened). Like BIG YTers were saying this stuff.

 

[Saboteur-6]

And people who don't understand sex think it HAS to be anal lmao (which is why the trans stuff happened). Like BIG YTers were saying this stuff.

That's really sad lol.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

And people who don't understand sex think it HAS to be anal lmao (which is why the trans stuff happened). Like BIG YTers were saying this stuff.

Thats pretty embarrassing lmao

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Spoiler

Reason I didn't like the sex scene is that I can't empathize with this woman already and she's fucking a dude with a pregnant girlfriend. Mel is god awful too but still.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Spoiler

Reason I didn't like the sex scene is that I can't empathize with this woman already and she's fucking a dude with a pregnant girlfriend. Mel is god awful too but still.

Owen always represented Abby's light in the dark for me. He was a grounding force and tried to turn Abby away from choosing to live in the hate and the pain that became her life's purpose. I got the impression that they didn't work out initially because of Abby's obsession of revenge. I mean they clearly both still loved each other and watching them give into that raw primal attraction had power as well just being sexy. It was also evidence of how Abby was changing internally and moving away from whatever was keeping her tied to the WLF.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Owen always represented Abby's light in the dark for me. He was a grounding force and tried to turn Abby away from choosing to live in the hate and the pain that became her life's purpose. I got the impression that they didn't work out initially because of Abby's obsession of revenge. I mean they clearly both still loved each other and watching them give into that raw primal attraction had power as well just being sexy. It was also evidence of how Abby was changing internally and moving away from whatever was keeping her tied to the WLF.

I know what it represented in the plot, the game isn't exactly subtle, it just didn't make me develop any empathy for Abby. which the game obviously wants us to do. Like oh look at Abby pet the cute puppy, meanwhile Ellie kills the attack dogs, just didn't work for me.

 

[Saboteur-6]

I know what it represented in the plot, the game isn't exactly subtle, it just didn't make me develop any empathy for Abby. which the game obviously wants us to do. Like oh look at Abby pet the cute puppy, meanwhile Ellie kills the attack dogs, just didn't work for me.

I was commenting on the fact that you said it "wasn't needed" to show them fuck and pointing out why it mattered to Abby's character development beyond just being steamy.

I mean even the position they fucked in on camera was an interesting choice because doggy is a submissive position and the fact that she let Owen take her like that showed vulnerability and trust unique to him.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I was commenting on the fact that you said it "wasn't needed" to show them fuck and pointing out why it mattered to Abby's character development beyond just being steamy.

I mean even the position they fucked in on camera was an interesting choice because doggy is a submissive position and the fact that she let Owen take her like that showed vulnerability and trust unique to him.

Gotcha, I misunderstood your response then. I always got the idea that Abby was responsive and soft for Owen, but I suppose you aren't wrong. As far as "steaminess", completely subjective, I don't need or want a game to turn me on, but that I honestly found it disgusting as neither of them are at all attractive to me. Once again subjective though, but watching two characters I hate fuck each other just wasn't what I wanted from this game.

Very small nitpick over a very short scene, don't get it twisted, I'm not saying it ruined or even detracted from anything, it just felt more like a "because we can" type of thing. Also RIP the mocap actors that had to be awful lmao.

 

[JJvercetti]

3 things I have noticed so far while playing this game. (Annoying or odd to me)

• The revenge issue was forshadowed in the first game with the failed attempt by David and his group.
• My stealth of the firefly section in the first game didnt mean anything since Joel "massacared eveyone"
• Mel getting cleared for duty (need to watch/play this scene/section again)

There was a fourth thing but I forgot.

 

[Vslayer]

Spoiler

Reason I didn't like the sex scene is that I can't empathize with this woman already and she's fucking a dude with a pregnant girlfriend. Mel is god awful too but still.

yeah I mean I guess they also wanted to show that? Like yeah she's not a great person but now her conscience (because of Lev and Yara) is pulling her to help them.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Spoiler: Question about ending

So when Ellie decided to spare Abby, she has a memory of Joel shortly before he was killed where they begin reconciling. Does this mean that she concluded that Joel didn't want that for her? Or her sparing Abby was the first step towards actually being to heal? Or that forgiving Abby for what she did, she is in a small way releasing Joel from the anger she held for him? I don't think it's the last one because they were already moving towards reconciliation.

One thing that was interesting was Joel sacrificed his last shred of decency to save Ellie, Ellie gave up her a lot of what made her good to avenge Joel. Good parallelism I suppose, but I'm not sure what the meaning was behind her sparing Abby in the grand scheme of things. I mentioned a few of my ideas, maybe it's all of that, maybe it's none of that, maybe the game is supposed to be that way.

Be that as it may, if the shoe was on the other foot and Ellie were killed instead of Joel, he absolutely would have murdered everyone in Seattle and it would have been infinitely more cruel, which she surely must know.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

yeah I mean I guess they also wanted to show that? Like yeah she's not a great person but not her conscience (because of Lev and Yara) is pulling her to help them.

I liked Lev and Yara a lot, you'd think the things Abby did to protect Lev and the choices she made would make her have an "oh okay I kinda get it" moment about Joel and Ellie, if even just a little bit.

 

[Vslayer]

Spoiler: Question about ending

So when Ellie decided to spare Abby, she has a memory of Joel shortly before he was killed where they begin reconciling. Does this mean that she concluded that Joel didn't want that for her? Or her sparing Abby was the first step towards actually being to heal? Or that forgiving Abby for what she did, she is in a small way releasing Joel from the anger she held for him? I don't think it's the last one because they were already moving towards reconciliation.

One thing that was interesting was Joel sacrificed his last shred of decency to save Ellie, Ellie gave up her a lot of what made her good to avenge Joel. Good parallelism I suppose, but I'm not sure what the meaning was behind her sparing Abby in the grand scheme of things. I mentioned a few of my ideas, maybe it's all of that, maybe it's none of that, maybe the game is supposed to be that way.

Be that as it may, if the shoe was on the other foot and Ellie were killed instead of Joel, he absolutely would have murdered everyone in Seattle and it would have been infinitely more cruel, which she surely must know.

For the ending, I think it could be interpreted different ways but the fact that in the memory she told Joel "I don't think I can forgive you, but I want to try," I feel like she forgave Joel out of love, but for Abby, she's doing it for herself (so love for herself and her humanity) and it's not really to forgive Abby? Like maybe the memory of all that she's lost is enough to make her realize this won't help her mourn him, or make her feel better about what happened. It's hard to say for sure, it could be multiple things like you stated, I feel like it's all of them.

I liked Lev and Yara a lot, you'd think the things Abby did to protect Lev and the choices she made would make her have an "oh okay I kinda get it" moment about Joel and Ellie, if even just a little bit.

I think that's why Abby spared them, like first it's Owen, then it's Lev reminding Abby that if she wants to be a better person she needs to start making better choices.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Going through again, I really liked Jesse and Dina, they were easily my favorite characters in terms of likability. Obviously Joel and Ellie are my favorite, but no thanks to this game.

I just wish Jesse did more in the game than

Spoiler

get cucked, die, and never be talked about as if nobody every gave a fuck about him.

 

[RYX]

game sucked