The RoboCop Thread

[Deleted member 5032]

I'm in the lab right now comparing tools, and I think Cassie might just be a better RoboCop.

Zoning: They both have fast mid-hitting projectiles (hers is actually 3 frames faster...) but hers can lead to 20%+ 1-bar into an advantage restand anywhere on screen. His gets 12% 1-bar. Her high projectile does 2% less damage but leaves the opponent standing, allowing for Flamethrower-esque restand pressure. Her amplified bf1 does 3% more damage than RoboCop's amplified bf2. However, her bf1 can be charged for more damage or canceled for mind games. So, already, she's got essentially the best parts of RoboCop's v1, v2, and v3 zoning (mid projectile, high multi-hitting projectile, projectile cancels, restands, used in blockstring pressure). In addition, she's got an Air projectile that can be amplified for another mid-hitting projectile. She's also got Flippin Out, but honestly I count that as a weakness...

Neutral: Take them into the lab and compare their forward and backward dashes. They're almost identical, though RoboCop's feels a bit faster. She's also got a safe, staggerable 9-frame mid, a 10-frame far-reaching high with a KB, and all her other tools (I'm not going to write a full-on outline of everything that makes Cassie good). She also has RoboCop's b4 as her b3, but it's a confirmable string into 25%+. Even just b13-d2 deals 21% meterless; more than RoboCop can get with meter from his high starters. On Oki, you have to respect her 9-frame mid into her max kombo damage, giving her easy access to throws.

Damage: Not much to say here, she can get 25%+ into a restand anywhere on screen from her fast, staggerable low and mid starters. RoboCop has to commit to a 16-frame short-ranged high or a 17-frame mid-into-high to get anywhere close to 20% midscreen, and he can't restand once he's launched.

Wakeups: This is the only area where her terrible wakeups are on par with his, though her u2 is still much better than his. At least when her u2 flawless block whiffs, she backflips to safety.

Fatal Blow: This is where RoboCop finally gets the edge on her, as his FB is vastly superior.

I'd also say he has better KBs overall, but that doesn't really offset that massive damage differential between them. The point of this post is mainly to refute the argument that RoboCop's zoning warrants his low damage and terrible normals. It doesn't. Her zoning is arguably better, at least on par, and yet she still has solid entry points to solid damage through her lows and fast staggerable mids. The disparity between her tools and RoboCop's is staggering, considering how similar they are tool-wise.

I could do a similar post using Sonya, due to her strong zoning combined with her high damage and mixups. The only reason I chose Cassie is because her tools so closely resemble RoboCop's. Sonya has excellent zoning but it's an entirely different breed, and thus not fully comperable.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I'm doing more testing with OCP's Finest (v1) to see if the command grab helps at all. However, look at this nonsense with his electric bombs:

The opponent has fully recovered and is capable of blocking or jumping out, so I have no idea why they would make the bombs not work after those strings...

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Cassie is why I've thought v2 isn't great, because there's a direct comparison to be drawn, to a stronger character (with a female hitbox). Which leaves v1 (command grab, electrics) and v3 (air mobility, setup) as your more unique options.

In theory they both have a way to get you combos, but both the electrics and the gas are too finicky. Which leaves just the grab (minus core tools, can only tick from d1) and air slam + low dmg DoT... Which I don't see doing it.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Here's Sonicfox's RoboCop getting tossed around and flawlessed by Fujin and Cassie. It's not even the Fujin variation that gives RoboCop the most amount of trouble (as far as I know), and the Fujin isn't even doing basic things like punishing Flamethrower on block.

 

[M2Dave]

Cassie is why I've thought v2 isn't great, because there's a direct comparison to be drawn, to a stronger character (with a female hitbox)....

Robocop's zoning game is superior to Cassie's. What Robocop fails to mention is that the low auto has seven less recovery frames than the low gunshot on block, which is why players counter-picked and beat Semiij with Shang Tsung at Final Kombat, using the ground eruption to negate the low gunshot. The low auto, on the other hand, is safe against every character, even Sub Zero's slide, at mid range.

I am not going to write an essay that compares and contrasts Robocop and Cassie. The reality is that Robcop's low auto is obviously the better zoning tool designed for a zoning character whereas Cassie's low gunshot has its own advantages designed for a character with versatility. You can choose either character based on how you intend to play, but they do not have access to each other's tools for balance reasons. Such characters, namely pre-patch Deathstroke and Deadshot, existed in previous NRS fighting games.

Everyone agrees that Robocop has a very good zoning game so worst case scenario he is going to be a utility character. In other words, he is going to have some match ups in which the zoning is effective and some match ups in which the the zoning is ineffective, which by definition is equivalent to mid tier. The best case scenario is everything else.

 

[Dante]

V2 is both his best zoning variation and his best close up variation. I trade cmdthrow for ex missile and flamethrower and even parry any day. V3 still has potential but its hard to exist atm.

Game is still as shitty as I remember it, but I'm talking online mostly for sure.

I'd say they got to take a look at his hurtbox during normals as they lose where they shouldn't. Cetrion for example low profiles his f2 with her d4 (or is it d3)
Either cobra cannon or straight auto 9 could be a mid or the very least hit as low as an ice ball of sub.

But I agree that other chars can do a lot more for less work. Still I don't see robo less than mid tier

 

[M2Dave]

I'd say they got to take a look at his hurtbox during normals as they lose where they shouldn't. Cetrion for example low profiles his f2 with her d4 (or is it d3).

I think both can low profile f+2. LOL. Wake up u+3 gets low profiled by similar low pokes. Speaking of Cetrion, ground pound in V1 also low profiles low auto. I made these discoveries the other day when I was playing Dan. Reversal u+2 has a minuscule hitbox. Bombs disappear on trades, which is obviously intentional, but I am not sure why they do not hit as physical attacks.

As of right now, I agree that V2 Robocop is probably a mid tier character. He has a great projectile, phenomenal movement, excellent parry, a 10 frame mid string, and krushing blows on both throws. On the other hand, he struggles defensively because of his large hitbox and short-ranged reversal attacks, which are fair weaknesses for his character archetype. However, the hitbox issues are not and ought to be fixed.

I also still believe that Highborn Kitana is overall better.

 

[Dante]

I'd love to see moves like b3 and f4 get some hurtbox buffs (the positive ones lol).
Also f2 series could use a few extra +frames on hit. F21 cobra ain't even a combo.

So far d4 f3 f2 low shot and double backdash whiff punishes literally carry me. It's very satisfying but doesn't mean robo doesn't need some slight buffs

 

[M2Dave]

I'd love to see moves like b3 and f4 get some hurtbox buffs (the positive ones lol).
Also f2 series could use a few extra +frames on hit. F21 cobra ain't even a combo.

So far d4 f3 f2 low shot and double backdash whiff punishes literally carry me. It's very satisfying but doesn't mean robo doesn't need some slight buffs

I think the normal attacks work well enough. I would go in a different direction.

How about making a special move that has the word "low" in its name not be low-profile-able? LOL. I understand and appreciate NRS addressing hitbox issues, but my expectations are still very low. Johnny Cage's force balls in Show Stopper are still whiffing a year later...

 

[Qwark28]

I'm trying to keep a positive attitude, but the more I play him and lab matchups, the more glaring flaws I see. For example, the Kotal variation with the totems can heal faster than RoboCop can zone him out. Even if you tag him with a missile everytime he summons a totem or ray, you can't deal enough damage and chip to out-damage his healing. This means RoboCop has to fight Kotal up close, which makes zero sense.

Kotal heals 11 over 8 seconds, rockets do 9.

basic math comprehension, if you hit him just once he has to stand still for 8 seconds to recover 2% hp

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Does he gain any bonus healing from totems? I was not able to cause any significant damage to him while he was healing, even when tagging him with missiles and nonstop chip damage. If you want to have a good-faith discussion about it, that's great, but you can leave your condescending "basic math comprehension" bullshit out of it.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Kotal Buluc defense totem is meaningless. Sunlight heals, but only for 8 seconds, and then Kotal has to eat shots if they want to set it back up.

Single shots get parried, but as long as you occasionally amp the low shots, you will chip Kotal down.

 

[Javoo On Fire]

Kombats robo looks clean lol

 

[M2Dave]

Kombats robo looks clean lol

I thought Rye did not know the match very well. Kombat was breaking him down with f+2,1 staggers.

But it is rather ironic that the "Kombat Against Injustice" Charity Tournament was won by a police officer.

 

[Javoo On Fire]

I thought Rye did not know the match very well. Kombat was breaking him down with f+2,1 staggers.

But it is rather ironic that the "Kombat Against Injustice" Charity Tournament was won by a police officer.

Yeah it was silly

 

[Evil Canadian]

Sindel v3 fireball low profiles robocops(and nightwolf's) mid projectile

 

[TBambangC]

need some expert opinion on this :

Active Patrol is +9 on hit and puts you face to face with the opponent if cancelled from a string. From what I can tell, the plus frames guarantee a command grab follow up which seems to hit the opponent on standing/crouching regardless of block.

Currently experimenting with V1. My gameplan revolves on cancelling F21/F32 with Reactive Patrol on block (which gives you enough space to avoid their d1 mash) or cancel into Active Patrol on hit for that +9 advantage on close range.

Some character’s d4 might catch Robo during Reactive Patrol, in case it happens, throw in some F212 to condition them to block high.

 

[Dante]

Everything you said is true. They gotta jump to avoid the throw.

 

[TBambangC]

Everything you said is true. They gotta jump to avoid the throw.

Thanks! I figure F3 might catch their jump due to its relatively high hitbox and fast startup.

 

[Dante]

Thanks! I figure F3 might catch their jump due to its relatively high hitbox and fast startup.

Exactly. Also d1 throw to add a second layer on the mixup

 

[jokey77]

need some expert opinion on this :

Active Patrol is +9 on hit and puts you face to face with the opponent if cancelled from a string. From what I can tell, the plus frames guarantee a command grab follow up which seems to hit the opponent on standing/crouching regardless of block.

Currently experimenting with V1. My gameplan revolves on cancelling F21/F32 with Reactive Patrol on block (which gives you enough space to avoid their d1 mash) or cancel into Active Patrol on hit for that +9 advantage on close range.

Some character’s d4 might catch Robo during Reactive Patrol, in case it happens, throw in some F212 to condition them to block high.

Also 121 and even (a frame perfekt) 223 jail, so the opponent can't duck.

F212 is a hitconfirmable check to catch jumping opponents.

This is the reason why I always thought that Var 1 was the best.

 

[TBambangC]

Also 121 and even (a frame perfekt) 223 jail, so the opponent can't duck. This is the reason why I consider Var 1 the best one.

Might be a good idea to start the match with a 121 follow up after the +9 and then use the mid strings once they start mashing d2 to punish the 1.

 

[jokey77]

121-bf1 is hitconfirmable and can be looped into itself.

The d2 won't beat it, because the opponent can be hit high during hitstun.

 

[TBambangC]

121-bf1 is hitconfirmable and can be looped into itself.

The d2 won't beat it, because the opponent can be hit high during hitstun.

How viable do you think B2 is on that +9 advantage?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that RoboCop just really, really, really fucking sucks...

He is fully incapable of punishing many characters, like Fujin and Johnny Cage. His U2 is totally useless, like worst-in-the-game on wakeup and flawless block. His d2 is fast but the hitbox is garbage. His damage output is nowhere near the "bigly" amount that was touted by @16 Bit, and what little damage he gets is based on landing terrible high launchers. The only way "bigly" is applicable to his damage output is that it's a nonsense word used to describe nonsense damage. His staggers are easily beaten on reaction due to large amounts of blockstun.

The only thing he has going for him is some above-average zoning tools that still manage to get outzoned or otherwise countered by characters that have much better tools and damage all around, like Sindel, Shang, and Nightwolf. That, and his dashes. Any idiot can work their way in through his zoning, and then he's pretty well fucked. His zoning isn't bad, by any means, but it's certainly not good enough to warrant his utter lack of damage or defense.

It saddens me to say it, but based on my experience with the character, he's feeling like trash tier. Not pre-patch Shao, but not too far off, either.

Lol don't take anything 16 Bit says in kombat kasts as legit. I remember the Darkseid's great recovery projectile meme lmao