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Do You Think That Armor Breaking Moves Will And Can Be Properly Balanced?

Raider

Raider

Warrior
I really wonder what everyone else thinks about this. They said that some of the armor breaking moves give things like Krushing Blows (ignoring that KB requirement), some of them pop-up for a full combo... etc. While some of them will do nothing else but break the armor. Isn't this already... wrong? Why would some characters have these extras tied to armor breaking move while other get nothing but armor breaking. I mean KB and launcher for a full combo are 2 huge things in this game. It already makes some of these moves more powerful than the others.

You try to use your Fatal Blow, opponent uses their armor breaking move on you and gets the Krushing Blow or full combo???
 
Demon_0

Demon_0

RIP Akira Toriyama
Yes. You want to break away? Fine: no turning the tables, just take this extra damage and we are back to neutral. Perfect solution.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Warrior
Just a big nope. The examples they showed are a good example of how they're just randomly thrown away (like Krushing Blow conditions are, seriously, do designers of each character even talk with each other while they design moves?) so I don't really think they will all be equally useful or balanced. Sub-Zero for example only benefits once from his armor break move (after that you're better of using an uppercut rather than the boot) while others have always combo launchers whenever they break armor...
 
chud_munson

chud_munson

Apprentice
My guess is that armor breakers that don't give any extras are much faster, require no meter, are more versatile, or just somehow have a lower barrier to entry.
 
Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
I'm also not sure about choosing Sub's f4 as the armor break, but they're also making his f4 faster to compensate so you guys are still getting a buff.
 
appo

appo

º°˜¨EU¨˜°º
yes. not in term that all are equal but more so in that it gets balanced out with the overall tools of the chars compared to other ones.
what nr did with it needs to be seen, especially with the other announced balance changes.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Warrior
Eddy Wang said:
I'm lost af, didnt watch mkast cause no enough data, someone give me de recap details pls.
Click to expand...
Basically each character will have a move that is able to break armor and if they break armor they gain extra benefits:

- Scorpion gets his wheelkick (I think b3? Not sure) and whenever it breaks armor, it launches.

- Sub-Zero gets his F4 boot which now is faster and gets a krushing blow (on armor break or connecting 2 consecutive) but after wasting the krushing blow uppercuts deal more damage against breakaway armor anyway.

- Shao Kahn gets mind games after shoulder, he can either launch or read a breakaway and use the down version to launch against armor (so he only breaks while trying the shoulder mind game on hit...).

Scorpion armor break looks 100000000 stronger than either of the other 2 to be honest. Guaranteed launchers everytime against stamina depleted foes compared to a 1 use KB or being restricted to a particular launcher.
 
Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
Eddy Wang said:
I'm lost af, didnt watch mkast cause no enough data, someone give me de recap details pls.
Click to expand...
  • Balance patch for Aftermath confirmed
  • All characters will receive an Armor Break move like Spawn's mace, repurposed from existing moves (Scorpion b3, Sub f4, etc)
  • Each armor break has varying properties ranging from combo starters, restands, new KBs, or just the armor break.
  • 3rd Augment slots unlocked, augment system being overhauled
  • Shao Kahn has entered the game
 
Darth Mao

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #buffRaiden
Eddy Wang said:
I'm lost af, didnt watch mkast cause no enough data, someone give me de recap details pls.
Click to expand...
They added the Armor Breaker, a mechanic similar to Spawn's v3 bf3 . So they showed Shao, Scorpion and Sub-Zero as examples.

Shao accesses using bf3 ex~d, receiving a launcher in case the opponent tries to use Breakaway. Scorpion also has the same benefit if you hit b3 vs Breakaway. Sub-Zero has a new KB on f4, which is its Armor Breaker too.
 
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Mr.Khen

Mr.Khen

I am you
I am personally going to wait for the patch notes since this new mechanic might have got them to redesign some of the moves for certain characters so the armor breakers would make sense for a character that got plenty of kombo launchers vs those who lack in that department...

We shall see!
 
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P

PetulantWaste

Apprentice
No. I just commented on another thread but unless they've made a ton of changes to the game there's no way that this will be fair.

Keep in mind, some characters can do a ton of damage without having to juggle you so this is really only gonna help the characters that really struggle because their combos require early pop-ups.

Just look at Shao Kahn's armor breaker compared to Scorpions. Shao Kahn's requires bar. If your opponent is smart they'll just wait for the regular amplify and then break.

Also, some characters (Scorpion and Sub-Zero) seem to have armor break moves in EVERY variation. Shao Kahn doesn't even have ACCESS to his armor break move in variation 3 (not that anyone in their right mind would be playing variation 3 anyway)

It seems clear to me that some characters are gonna get great utility versions and others are gonna get relatively shit versions. They only showed 3 characters (4 if you count Spawn) and it's already an unbalanced mess. Spawn's armor break was designed as part of his kit. IT MAKES SENSE. The reason it makes sense is because it comes out at roughly the same time as the regular combo extension, therefore, the player actually has to guess whether you're gonna go combo extension or armor breaker.

Sub-Zero's f4 is slow and moves you way forward. The moves that he would usually be using to combo you won't work in those timings so it'll be easy to spot if they are gonna go for an armor break set up or a regular combo.

Spawn doesn't have that problem. His armor break is designed to come at the same time and cover about the same range as his regular combo extension path.

Like is Scorpion in V3 gonna be able to NJP and then f3 connect? Is Sub Zero gonna get a freeze and then be able to land jump kick into f4 to bait an armor break (It was actually shown on stream that you can land jump kick into f4 normally but can you do it after a freeze, can you do it after he lands his b2)? Also, why the fuck did they give him another krushing blow anyway? Did he really need it?

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but this seems hella chaotic. I think sometimes NRS doesn't do the obvious thing just to spite people who recommend it. Like ok we're gonna give a short hop krushing blow but we're only gonna give it to Fujin, or you know what breakways are annoying but instead of setting characters back to neutral like damn near everyone suggested, we're gonna add in this inherently unbalanced mini-game.

I'm excited to try it out just because it'll be new and fresh for like 2 weeks but then I imagine it'll start rubbing people the wrong way. Just my guess.
 
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Gamer68

Gamer68

Fujin!
Obviously some characters will have better armor breaking moves, 16bit literally said that one stream. Some will restand, some will give you a KB by skipping the usual requirements, some launch, etc. While others just armor break and hit them and that's kinda it. Every character has pros and cons when it comes to the things in their kits, so obviously armor breakers will not be an exception. Some will definitely be easier to land than others.

But we really need to wait. We only know Fujin's, Scorpion's, Sub-Zero's, Shao Kahn's, and Kitana's.

Plus it's only a piece of the whole picture. Remember they are doing balance changes across the board like buffing Shao's F34. So seeing certain ones may not be impressive, but they could be improve the character in other areas.
 
Raider

Raider

Warrior
Gamer68 said:
Obviously some characters will have better armor breaking moves, 16bit literally said that one stream. Some will restand, some will give you a KB by skipping the usual requirements, some launch, etc. While others just armor break and hit them and that's kinda it. Every character has pros and cons when it comes to the things in their kits, so obviously armor breakers will not be an exception. Some will definitely be easier to land than others.

But we really need to wait. We only know Fujin's, Scorpion's, Sub-Zero's, Shao Kahn's, and Kitana's.

Plus it's only a piece of the whole picture. Remember they are doing balance changes across the board like buffing Shao's F34. So seeing certain ones may not be impressive, but they could be improve the character in other areas.
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Yeah, and Scorpion really needed a combo launcher for every armor breaking...
Or Sub-Zero needed new KB... Seems balanced.
 
Gamer68

Gamer68

Fujin!
Raider said:
Yeah, and Scorpion really needed a combo launcher for every armor breaking...
Or Sub-Zero needed new KB... Seems balanced.
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Yeah but they could have nerfed them in a different area for all we know. My point is that we only know a piece of the whole picture. We need to see the balance changes for those characters, plus all other armor breaking moves to really compare.
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Lokheit said:
Just a big nope. The examples they showed are a good example of how they're just randomly thrown away (like Krushing Blow conditions are, seriously, do designers of each character even talk with each other while they design moves?) so I don't really think they will all be equally useful or balanced. Sub-Zero for example only benefits once from his armor break move (after that you're better of using an uppercut rather than the boot) while others have always combo launchers whenever they break armor...
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I'm thinking about the same thing.

I want to believe this is going to be great for everyone, but I'll be surprised if there aren't at least a few that either don't make any sense or end up attached to moves that aren't in any tournament variation.

What I really think is going to be a mess is the new moves coming with the new Augment system. THAT was where I snapped back to reality after Fujin hypnotized me.

I know Injustice 2 had the same system, but on top of doing what IJ2 DIDN'T do and having half the special moves in the game locked out of competitive mode, now you're adding A SECOND entire new layer of complexity, incentive and depth...that is going to be just as completely and totally redundant to anyone who's trying to seriously learn the game.

And if you can buy or improve them with Time Krystals? Fucking forget about it.
 
FoughtDragon01

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
I'm in the boat of waiting until the balance patch drops so that we get the full picture. God knows how much it'll change since we're basically entering Season 2 of this game. A character that gets good unbreakable damage won't need an armor breaker that launches. Conversely, a character that doesn't get amazing damage could benefit from it.

Now, if the balance does get screwed up, hell yeah, I'll call them out, but I'm giving NRS the benefit of the doubt for now.
 
Mr.Khen

Mr.Khen

I am you
Lt. Boxy Angelman said:
What I really think is going to be a mess is the new moves coming with the new Augment system. THAT was where I snapped back to reality after Fujin hypnotized me.

I know Injustice 2 had the same system, but on top of doing what IJ2 DIDN'T do and having half the special moves in the game locked out of competitive mode, now you're adding A SECOND entire new layer of complexity, incentive and depth...that is going to be just as completely and totally redundant to anyone who's trying to seriously learn the game.

And if you can buy or improve them with Time Krystals? Fucking forget about it.
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The augments were for sure confusing! even for Derek to explain. the poor guy was waiting to get interrupted by Tyler lol. I mean at least they can allow us a broken online competitive mode where we could make use of the fun stuff.. why spend your resources fixing and re-designing something that is for offline play beats me.. I guess it's meant for super casuals.
 
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chud_munson

chud_munson

Apprentice
Well, you asked two questions.

Will they balanced? For sure not. It's a brand new feature that's probably going to shake up the meta quite a bit. There are 100% going to be rough edges.

Can they be balanced? I think there's a version of that where the answer is yes. Not every character needs to have all the exact same tools as another character. Just because some character has an armor breaker that is a launcher doesn't mean that overpowers that character as a whole. I think we should be thinking about this as one avenue among many to affect a character's strengths and weaknesses. But I don't think the armor breaking options as a single dimension will ever be balanced among the whole cast, nor should they.

Before the announcement, I was pretty wary of the idea of retrofitting an armor breaker into a character's moveset, but I'm interested to see how this plays out.
 
marcelfarias

marcelfarias

Noob
Mr.Khen said:
The augments were for sure confusing! even for Derek to explain. the poor guy was waiting to get interrupted by Tyler lol. I mean at least they can allow us a broken online competitive mode where we could make use of the fun stuff.. why spend your resources fixing and re-designing something that is for offline play beats me.. I guess it's meant for super casuals.
Click to expand...
Right?! We don't have test your luck anymore, so a mode where we could play with augments would be AWESOME! It's not fun to throw a lot of projectiles if you are hitting the A.I.
 
E

Eji1700

Kombatant
It's doable. Nothing about what they've shown is inherently broken, and they're trying to keep it asymmetrical obviously, and that's fine. It's just a question of "can they make it balanced".

Scorp/khan gets a relaunch and a combo, sub just gets more damage(once) and spacing. That's a fine tradeoff/way to do it and you can totally work it around the idea that sub doesn't always need the armor punish to be max damage/popup combo.

It's really just going to come down to "do the tradeoffs make sense". What i've seen so far is fine. I'm just expecting geras to armor break off his natural combo followup and the punish for breaking armor with it is it unplugs the opponents controller for 30 seconds.

I hope that they don't screw it up, but obviously with how they've handled KB's i'm not super confident in them actually weighting them all properly. I'd never expect it to be right out of the gate, but it's frustrating for how long we've had KB's so wildly imbalanced across the cast/variations.
 
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