Do You Think That Armor Breaking Moves Will And Can Be Properly Balanced?

[TrulyAmiracle]

Just posted in the other thread but anyway..


I get their idea. At least in concept, they want you to try to read when they'll breakaway, if you go for the armor break move randomly you potentially lose damage on your combo and they keep their def meter.
Its a very bootleg KI 'counter breaker' they're going for, like you can do just a standing 1 with Scoprion instead of 11 to bait their breakaway attempt then catch it with b3 for a relaunch.

In theory it'll mean that people can alter their juggles to throw off breakway attempts that are during common spots, like doing stand 3 into spear or some shit instead of the regular f3 11 to catch them sleeping. You sacrifice a bit of damage to continue your combo but you kinda guarantee that they won't break away there.
like for the Fujin armor breaker, it's gonna be a common move but the "balance" concept is that it's a much smaller reward even if you catch their breakaway, no KB no relaunch just the damage from the spin kicks where characters that have their armor break on less common moves they get a relaunch or KB or something.
Guess part of it is characters that'll become scary to break away against like Shao unless he's out of bar I guess.

Seems interesting overall, we'll have to wait and see what everyone's AB is before passing judgment i think.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

My gut feeling is the armor-breaking moves should have all been special moves but we'll see.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I don't get it? If scorpion d2 kbs you you can very easily just react to whether he'll b3 or not, I don't see how there could possibly be a mind game, the button is very slow.

 

[Cashual]

I really wonder what everyone else thinks about this. They said that some of the armor breaking moves give things like Krushing Blows (ignoring that KB requirement), some of them pop-up for a full combo... etc. While some of them will do nothing else but break the armor. Isn't this already... wrong? Why would some characters have these extras tied to armor breaking move while other get nothing but armor breaking. I mean KB and launcher for a full combo are 2 huge things in this game. It already makes some of these moves more powerful than the others.

You try to use your Fatal Blow, opponent uses their armor breaking move on you and gets the Krushing Blow or full combo???

isn’t this just another opportunity to address character balance? Like, Geras doesn’t need a launcher armor break, but skarlet does. As long as overall toolsets and archetypes and relative strength is carefully considered, it could be a good change.

I have a wait and see attitude right now. It does seem like they will all actually cause hitstun and prevent being punished (which was always dumb) so that’s a positive.

it definitely creates another layer/guess or hitconfirm so we will see. I think we will see that the threat will create the shinnok hellspark “thing” where having a bar to mb means you almost don’t have to as it made people not try and punish the regular one .

 

[Bawlah]

It's all part of the mind games tbh! Scorpion's example risks the player doing little damage if the opponent doesn't actually try to break away cuz his armor break move wouldn't pop up normally! It's a mental battle that I'd gladly accept!

 

[ChaosTheory]

I don't know Scorps combos, but could KB into either b3 vs MB Spear be the guess?

As opposed to either b3 vs juggle which seems like you could easily avoid?

Just trying to get a grasp on this.

 

[ismael4790]

So basically, their way of trying to solve a flawed universal mechanic like breakaway is not a universal change to it, but a particular change to each character. Best recipe for failure. They are trying to solve one problem by introducing many more new ones.

Armor breaking moves having different speeds, properties, some of them launching, some of them not doing it, will introduce more complexity in the balance. There are going to be characters where their armor breaking moves will synergize correctly with their combos and some where they just won't, and this will probably just end up in the defender only having to change the point in the combo where they breakaway to that point where the armor breaking move can't connect anymore.

It would have been much simpler to turn breakaway into traditional breaker resetting the neutral, with the exception that you can only break when airbone, in order not to harm characters whose design was based on grounded combos.

 

[Pterodactyl]

So basically, their way of trying to solve a flawed universal mechanic like breakaway is not a universal change to it, but a particular change to each character. Best recipe for failure. They are trying to solve one problem by introducing many more new ones.

Armor breaking moves having different speeds, properties, some of them launching, some of them not doing it, will introduce more complexity in the balance. There are going to be characters where their armor breaking moves will synergize correctly with their combos and some where they just won't, and this will probably just end up in the defender only having to change the point in the combo where they breakaway to that point where the armor breaking move can't connect anymore.

It would have been much simpler to turn breakaway into traditional breaker resetting the neutral, with the exception that you can only break when airbone, in order not to harm characters whose design was based on grounded combos.

This is what I've been saying.

99% of players had the same single complaint about breakaways;

You shouldn't be able to get a full combo punish when you yourself were the one who got hit initially.

The answer to that, IMO, would be to find a way to remove or severely reduce the reward of actually dropping down.

That is a universal change that would not creep into other aspects of balance, and would positively impact the core meta of the game without robbing or over lending to certain characters.

I won't pretend to have the exact solution but I figured increasing the time a player spends on the ground after breaking away would be it. In a lot of cases it would mean the opponent gets guaranteed oki pressure on you and DOESN'T completely lose their turn, but you still get the benefit of ending their otherwise guaranteed combo damage.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

What a mess this mechanic is becoming. I really don't see why they couldn't just do something simple

In MKX, you had the ability to grab airborne opponents. If you ex'd the grab, it acted as a restand which you could then follow up with your choice of overhead/low options.

What if they just would have allowed you to grab your opponent during their breakaway? And if you amp'd the grab, you could then go into full combo (like Terminator's air grab), or rather continue the combo that they just attempted to breakaway from? I think that would have been kinda hype.

The gravity and scaling would be reset once you've restood them, I should note.

I'm probably overlooking a flaw in my suggestion, but I'm just saying there's gotta be something better than what they're doing.

 

[Blewdew]

I don't get it? If scorpion d2 kbs you you can very easily just react to whether he'll b3 or not, I don't see how there could possibly be a mind game, the button is very slow.

B3 will be significantly faster after the new patch though

 

[rainuS]

Though they gonna introduce breakers which reset to neutral especially MK11 is supposed to be neutral heavy game, in opposite now we have to think twice while breakinaway cuz whole cast can punish you for trying to escape.... good job NRS.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I think the point is that the mind mindgame of armor breakers is going to come mostly from launching Krushing Blows.

Scorpion's b3 is no way in hell going to connect after an amp teleport (unless they make the pop up bigger) and Sub Zero doesnt really need to worry about breakaway in the first place outside of launching krushing blows as well.

So, characters who get bodied by breakaway might have stronger armor breakers.

 

[Jynks]

Is this the new version of "third variation will not change the meta" thread for Aftermath? Probably age just as well.

 

[Professor Oak]

Is this the new version of "third variation will not change the meta" thread for Aftermath? Probably age just as well.

Lmao, It fucking didnt but whatever your point is is probably hella insightful and deep. Because it included strong variations didnt make it change the meta, the meta is still strike/throw and it is still turtle once you have depleted 70% of the opponents health.

 

[Raider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263445232324096000

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263513901637001217

Yikes.

 

[Tertian]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263445232324096000

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263513901637001217

Yikes.

Yikes indeed.

So this further devalues variations. If these armor breaking moves are to be an integral part of the meta then why would a player choose a variation that doesn't contain it?

This is disappointing.

 

[Raider]

Yikes indeed.

So this further devalues variations. If these armor breaking moves are to be an integral part of the meta then why would a player choose a variation that doesn't contain it?

This is disappointing.

It literally doesn't make any sense at this point. Variations were a MISTAKE.

 

[kevkopdx]

Wow nice “universal” fix.... no breaker for fearless ugh nrs

 

[Tertian]

It literally doesn't make any sense at this point. Variations were a MISTAKE.

I don't think variations were a mistake in concept (I enjoyed them in MKX) but MK11 just executed them so poorly.

 

[Raider]

I don't think variations were a mistake in concept (I enjoyed them in MKX) but MK11 just executed them so poorly.

That's what i tried to say. I liked them in MKX too.

The fact that we have characters with 3 out of 3 good and viable variations and then some with just one variation that is being used and considered to be viable is bad enough. But this... It will make things even worse.

 

[NorthernLadMSP]

I'm floored, and not in a good way. I figured they had enough intelligence to make them a universal move or normal. So, let me get this straight. Characters like Scorpion and Sub-Zero will get them in all tournament variations and custom variations, but Kitana is fucked and gets it only in 2 of the 3 tournament variations? Wow.

 

[Ilthuain]

So this further devalues variations.

No, it doesn't. It adds additional differentiation between variations. It's something else to consider when choosing which variation is right for the job.

 

[Morgan the pilgrim]

Lets say its a value kind of thing right . So , if u have an armor breaking move ur good to go right ? Not rly .

1. Whats the point of armor breaking move if variations that get it DONT HAVE A COMBO TO USE IT . Take spawn as an example .
2. On the other hand , some characters (like fujin ) , get armor breaker on they finisher EVEN IN THEYR COMBO VARIATION .
3. What stops players to abuse things like waiting for scorps s1 /s4 or spear to come out and THEN breakaway (when he cant even input his b3 )
4. If ur armor breaker is the same type as sub zeros , why would u use it after uv hit ur kb ? Ur d2 will give u better dmg and better oki .
5. Some of them will cost meter and some of them wont is also a big issues on its own, on top of some of them beeing normals and others beeing specials.
6. If u have a grounded combo , like sub zero or cassie , this mechanic is pointless .

-Balance problems , ofc .
-Fair and usefull? No and maybe .
-Solves breakaway issue ? LUL NO.
-Why was it added ? Dont have a clue.
-Will it have any use ? Maybe to stop wakeup fatals ,U3s or to punish some armor interactibles on read .

 

[scarsunseen]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263513901637001217

I'm concerned about this. Not all variations will get armor breaking moves.

 

[Tertian]

No, it doesn't. It adds additional differentiation between variations. It's something else to consider when choosing which variation is right for the job.

This is assuming the variation(s) without the armor breaker somehow have equitable tools to ensure they are competitively on par with the variation(s) that do. (i'm not confident in that)

Given this mechanic can affect breakaways, interactables and Fatal blows, my feeling is the disparity will be too great.

I guess we'll find out when we see the patch notes tho.