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Do You Think That Armor Breaking Moves Will And Can Be Properly Balanced?

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
I honestly don't see much of a difference to be honest. Spawn was the 1st test dummy & I didn't see much of a difference.

It's all about the Oki afterwards anyways just has much as it's the player and opponent, either forcing themselves to use meter or not.

It would be game changing if it was meterless specials or normals that wouldn't otherwise hit confirm in strings, as now your playing a completely different ball game.
Even if it was said special or normals the DID hit confirm I think that the g
ame would be hella more fun.
 
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haketh

Noob
It makes sense for some variations to not get or have limited use Armor Breakers. That’s not something you generally want even strength across the board on. Like the tackle variation with Cassie or Var 1 Kollector, those variation can get mad Unbreakable damage so it would make sense for them to not have one or a limited one. Chill a bit y’all till we know a bit more.
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Premium Supporter
Tbf just because something is "universal" doesn't mean that all characters should be able to use it the same way, just like how d2s, fatal blows, hop attacks are universal but they vary in speed/range/utility etc.

The great disparity in utility and how often you'd be able to actually use them per character is definitely another way they can balance them. Characters that have mostly grounded combos will have super specfic ones that might be useful on oki or to stuff fatal blows as opposed to being used to beat breakaway where others will have ones that are more common but use meter like Shao Kahn's or are very usable in combos but they won't net you much reward like Fujin's.

I do agree that simply making the downtime after a breakway longer would've solved a lot of the issues instead of doing all of this but we'll see soon enough I guess.
 
the situation with them already sounds like a mess. we pretty much have to test them for like 2-3 months see how it is and then they get balanced in the next 2-3 months maybe
 

Zubro

Noob
Terrible. One step forward two steps back. It seems like it was a decision made by upper management. The meeting prob went like this:
Upper management: let’s give everyone a new Armor breaking mechanic but it will be different for each character. It could be a button or a special or even an amplified special.
Paolo: That’s a terrible idea. It would be a nightmare to balance.
Upper management: Great. So we’re all in agreement. Get started on it.
Paolo shakes head.
 
Some of you are acting as if Spawn hasn't had an armor break in 2/3 of his variations this whole time. The variation he loses it in doesn't even need it.

Stop panicking.
 

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
Maybe it's an attempt to try and balance out around characters who already have access to a lot of unbreakable damage. If you can already BnB 30% unbreakable, do you really need an armor breaker?
Kind of looks like it's a balance dial. Kitana access to it tracks pretty much along how people view her variations right now. The weakest gets the most access to it, while arguably the strongest doesn't, with the one in the middle getting a gimped version.

Still seems a little strange to use it for balance. It sounds significant enough that it's like why would a system/meta affecting change only be in play some of the time?

It's hard to make any judgments without knowing everything and only a few days before we know worlds more, so I'm not overly concerned with trying to sort through people's imagination of what it will be like.
 

Denny

Noob
I really wonder what everyone else thinks about this. They said that some of the armor breaking moves give things like Krushing Blows (ignoring that KB requirement), some of them pop-up for a full combo... etc. While some of them will do nothing else but break the armor. Isn't this already... wrong? Why would some characters have these extras tied to armor breaking move while other get nothing but armor breaking. I mean KB and launcher for a full combo are 2 huge things in this game. It already makes some of these moves more powerful than the others.

You try to use your Fatal Blow, opponent uses their armor breaking move on you and gets the Krushing Blow or full combo???
No. They will not be Balanced.
This change Strongly Benefits characters with high Combo Potential and Severely Undermines low damage play in the game.
Jade for example rarely gets to Launch anyone because her only Launcher is a 28Frame Overhead which is perfectly Reactable both by Flawless Block or just Block and Punish. She will be even worse for it while characters like Baraka will benefit quite a bit.
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Premium Supporter
No. They will not be Balanced.
This change Strongly Benefits characters with high Combo Potential and Severely Undermines low damage play in the game.
Jade for example rarely gets to Launch anyone because her only Launcher is a 28Frame Overhead which is perfectly Reactable both by Flawless Block or just Block and Punish. She will be even worse for it while characters like Baraka will benefit quite a bit.
We don't know that though, maybe Jade's will be her d2 or some shit and she gets a relaunch or a restand (Which 16bit did mention as one of the possible outcomes from the armor breakers).

I think once we know what every character's armor break is and what their possible reward is (KB, relaunch, restand) we'll have a clearer picture, coz even with the current moves like Scorp's b3 it looked way faster in the Kombat Kast.
 

Denny

Noob
We don't know that though, maybe Jade's will be her d2 or some shit and she gets a relaunch or a restand (Which 16bit did mention as one of the possible outcomes from the armor breakers).

I think once we know what every character's armor break is and what their possible reward is (KB, relaunch, restand) we'll have a clearer picture, coz even with the current moves like Scorp's b3 it looked way faster in the Kombat Kast.
I Like that you are Optimistic about this.
However, NRS has a poor track record with Balance.

Of Course we'll have a Clearer Picture once we KNOW but this Thread is about what people THINK and I personally Think I'm not as Optimistic as You are right now.
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Premium Supporter
I Like that you are Optimistic about this.
However, NRS has a poor track record with Balance.

Of Course we'll have a Clearer Picture once we KNOW but this Thread is about what people THINK and I personally Think I'm not as Optimistic as You are right now.
I'm not, I stopped playing the game around the time Shang released and only came back around Joker's release coz Sindel looks tight af.

I still disagree with so much that's in the game, Geras, low sand trap, upgraded, Geras, Liu's +3 that you keep praying that it whiffs but get smacked by it anyway, j3s still being too crazy to try to anti-air, Sonya's annoying rings, Johnny actually being good etc.

Point is, this route that they took is definitely way more complicated than delaying the wakeup time after breakaway which I'm sure crossed their minds as a change.
I wanna believe that they did this coz it can potentially help a lot of characters that couldn't do any damage if the opponent just does breakaway as soon as they get touched.
It also adds a little 2 way interaction between the players during the juggle where its a mindgame of "are they gonna breakaway here or not?" instead of it just being mash breakaway as soon as I see that KB zoom in.
You'll see stuff like a player that got a big launch and went for the armor break expecting a breakaway which didn't come so they lost a big damage oppurtunity, or if it works it'll be a hype callout and mini flex like "I'm in your head, asshole now hold this combo". Hell If their armor break is good enough it might actually be a case of you eating the full combo that you could've escaped coz you too scared of the armor break.
It can add a lot of hype to tournament matches which I'm all for.
 
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Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I think it's a cool change that will benefit the game by adding depth.

I don't think the change is going to be so dramatic as to create balance issues, but I think it will make some variations better and some worse.
 

Ilthuain

Lost in a labyrinth of egoism
...However, NRS has a poor track record with Balance...
Sometimes I wish I had a time machine, but like one that could only be used for completely trivial things. I would take people who say things like this on a tour through Fighting Game History, and I will have them play all of the popular games from the last two and a half decades and see if the "MK11 is poorly balanced" perception sticks.
 

Denny

Noob
Sometimes I wish I had a time machine, but like one that could only be used for completely trivial things. I would take people who say things like this on a tour through Fighting Game History, and I will have them play all of the popular games from the last two and a half decades and see if the "MK11 is poorly balanced" perception sticks.
Other games being Worse does not make This one Good.
 

Denny

Noob
I'm not, I stopped playing the game around the time Shang released and only came back around Joker's release coz Sindel looks tight af.

I still disagree with so much that's in the game, Geras, low sand trap, ungraded, Geras, Liu's +3 that you keep praying that it whiffs but get smacked by it anyway, j3s still being too crazy to try to anti-air, Sonya's annoying rings, Johnny actually being good etc.

Point is, this route that they took is definitely way more complicated than delaying the wakeup time after breakaway which I'm such crossed their minds as a change.
I wanna believe that they did this coz it can potentially help a lot of characters that couldn't do any damage if the opponent just does breakaway as soon as they get touched.
It also adds a little 2 way interaction between the players during the juggle where its a mindgame of "are they gonna breakaway here or not?" instead of it just being mash breakaway as soon as I see that KB zoom in.
You'll see stuff like a player that got a big launch and went for the armor break expecting a breakaway which didn't come so they lost a big damage oppurtunity, or if it works it'll be a hype callout and mini flex like "I'm in your head, asshole now hold this combo". Hell If their armor break is good enough it might actually be a case of you eating the full combo that you could've escaped coz you too scared of the armor break.
It can add a lot of hype to tournament matches which I'm all for.
You are Reasonable, I like you. :)
Case Point: Aftermath is Coming and we'll see how it Turns Out.

Nothing's wrong with Guessing, though!