Bottom 5 Character Project

[Bidu]

I hate that word "free". Sindel doesn't own anyone in this game that's just foolish. Shes 5-5 on sub. He can corner her easy.

The strat against Sindel is pretty much like Kabal's. Just walk into her avoiding the air projectiles if possible and she will at the corner in no time. Once there, if played well, it's hard for her to escape. But I wouldn't say it's 5-5. It seems to me that she has a little bit of advantage in the match.

Yeah, man, play against Foxy's Sonya with Sub-Zero and you'll lol every time he divekicks you out of your d4 pressure, combos you and then resets you. Can't go near her and can't run away from her either because she can zone you all day due to the super sonic recovery speed on ring blasts.

Also, I agree with Dan; Sub-Zero isn't free to most of those characters, they are just difficult matchups for him. Kabal is one of the easier matchups to handle, actually.

Super Sonic recovery on Ring Blasts? Doesn't Sub's Slide go under that shit? And Kabal the easier matchups do handle? I don't know about that... Even REO's Kabal?

 

[Peckapowa]

i think raiden happens to beat sub

 

[salvificblood]

The strat against Sindel is pretty much like Kabal's. Just walk into her avoiding the air projectiles if possible and she will at the corner in no time. Once there, if played well, it's hard for her to escape. But I wouldn't say it's 5-5. It seems to me that she has a little bit of advantage in the match.



Super Sonic recovery on Ring Blasts? Doesn't Sub's Slide go under that shit? And Kabal the easier matchups do handle? I don't know about that... Even REO's Kabal?

Reo's Kabal would almost certainly be better than my Sub-Zero but we're not assigning character placings based on the skill of any two individuals, are we?

The matchup with Kabal is OK because you get rewarded properly for making the right reads against him. Jump the wakeup buzzsaw, free combo. Block the wakeup nomad dash, free combo. The worst case scenario is that you jump over the nomad dash releasing your pressure, but you definitely are rewarded handsomely for scoring untechable knockdowns on Kabal. You can check him with the iceball and once you corner him, he's dead because ex nomad dash is the only way out of the corner, and it's incredibly easy to bait that thing. Many people think Kabal has great wakeup, I think his wakeup game's his worst feature. It's pretty bad.

peckapowa, Raiden beats Sub-Zero pretty comfortably, in my opinion, too.

 

[Bidu]

Reo's Kabal would almost certainly be better than my Sub-Zero but we're not assigning character placings based on the skill of any two individuals, are we?

The matchup with Kabal is OK because you get rewarded properly for making the right reads against him. Jump the wakeup buzzsaw, free combo. Block the wakeup nomad dash, free combo. The worst case scenario is that you jump over the nomad dash releasing your pressure, but you definitely are rewarded handsomely for scoring untechable knockdowns on Kabal. You can check him with the iceball and once you corner him, he's dead because ex nomad dash is the only way out of the corner, and it's incredibly easy to bait that thing. Many people think Kabal has great wakeup, I think his wakeup game's his worst feature. It's pretty bad.

peckapowa, Raiden beats Sub-Zero pretty comfortably, in my opinion, too.

I don't know, you're the one saying names (foxy grandpa).

I don't know about Raiden. He has the advantage, but I don't consider this a really bad match up.

But anyways since this thread is about the bottom 5 here it goes:

Jade, Sheeva, Stryker, Baraka, Kano.

 

[salvificblood]

I don't know, you're the one saying names (foxy grandpa).

Only because not many people play her to a really high standard yet. He plays her to the highest standard I've seen anybody play her so it's natural for me to say that, I guess. The reasons I give for the matchup against Sonya being incredibly difficult are valid, though. Sub struggles against Sonya. Not so much against Kabal, although it's hardly in Sub's favour.

 

[Big Pampering]

But he raped Tom Brady's Sub Zero in tournament that same tournament...the only reason he lost the money match was because he was Cyber Sub instead of his main.

same can be said about tom versus mileena, that matchup is just as fucked up as sub vs cyber sub, maybe even worse. Nevertheless, I have to say we haven't seen a lot of tom's potential because he never mained a character besides subzero, his kung lao doesn't count because it takes a pretty long time to be on the level of other top players with a character you didnt even do much for to learn. and besides, pig is a very good mileena

 

[Big Pampering]

i think Sub is pretty free to the following:

Mil, kit, kabal, sonya, lao, kenshi, Skarlet, freddy, sindel

sub aint got shit on jax

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Reo's Kabal would almost certainly be better than my Sub-Zero but we're not assigning character placings based on the skill of any two individuals, are we?

pretty much yeah that is how Pig does it. I've seen him say on at least 3 or 4 occasions that he doesn't like theory fighting, he'd rather fight it out. Well... if he's better it doesn't matter does it? I don't agree with it either.
I do agree with most of his sayings about Sub Zero though. I don't agree with the "freeness" of a few of those characters, but the rest I do. The only suggestion that I would make for SZ to even out his match ups... let him slide under duck able projectiles like Mileena's ball roll (it is why she is so fucked up). It would allow him to close the gap and make those characters respect his spacing.

 

[THTB]

Sindel will corner herself vs Sub if she doesn't play it smart about her zoning. When you zone, you can't just throw out shit and expect it to keep out obviously, lol. Using everything Sindel has = Sindel is harder to corner, because she's not just throwing out iaFBs.

 

[PimpUigi]

same can be said about tom versus mileena, that matchup is just as fucked up as sub vs cyber sub, maybe even worse. Nevertheless, I have to say we haven't seen a lot of tom's potential because he never mained a character besides subzero, his kung lao doesn't count because it takes a pretty long time to be on the level of other top players with a character you didnt even do much for to learn. and besides, pig is a very good mileena

Except Tom used Kung Lao, who is a very bad match for Mileena.

 

[Big Pampering]

Except Tom used Kung Lao, who is a very bad match for Mileena.

no way that is VERY bad. I dont even think its a bad matchup actually. and pig showed it himself, mileena has more than enough possibilities.

 

[THTB]

Kung Lao doesn't even destroy Mileena.

 

[PimpUigi]

Destroy no, but Kung Lao has the advantage in the match up.

 

[THTB]

I don't see how, really.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I don't see how, really.

Spin.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I think KL *had* an advantage pre-patch. Back when low hat and spins were so godlike. Now it's probably a lot closer to 5-5.

 

[DanCock]

Kung Lao has the advantage I'd say. Maybe a slight one.


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[DownfouralitY]

IMO Kung Lao does have the advantage. He can punish Mileena easily.

 

[Espio]

A smart Mileena isn't going to be rolling or teleport kicking Kung Lao frequently unless she's punishing a zoning attempt made by him.

All Kung Lao does is make Mileena play more cautiously and pick her shots better. Mileena can stil zone and she's pretty good up close too.

If it's not even, the worst the match up is in my view is a 6-4.

 

[NogunYesknife]

I think KL *had* an advantage pre-patch. Back when low hat and spins were so godlike. Now it's probably a lot closer to 5-5.

Hows it 5-5? KL has zero pressure options, dive kicks are nullified by IAF, tele and ex tele are destroyed by a simple d4, and roll can be stuffed pretty easily with d4. I dont understand.... Maybe this was 5-5 pre patch

 

[Tom Brady]

Except Tom used Kung Lao, who is a very bad match for Mileena.

i used Kl one match after not using him in several months. be that as it may, i was outplayed and lost. just trying to keep you in perspective here

 

[PimpUigi]

That's true, I should have thought to say that stuff first.

 

[Via_Negativa]

Don't really see sub-zero being bottom 5, but he really has been fucked up by the nerf's. Definitely the character most effected by patches in a negative way. It's honestly a bit sad. He should get slide under high projectile's and he would be fine. I know NRS deemed this to be too good, but give me a break there are lot's of characters that have stuff that's "too good", just give it too him. Still, I do extremely well with him and play him exclusively, and not once did I consider him bottom 5 until this thread came along. So must be time to pick up one of the top tier's and see how quickly I get a name for myself =P... (beginning the save for evo...)

In the end this game is too matchup based to look at this without some bias. it warps everyone's judgement. But that said, anyway my bottom would be... (1 being worst)

1. Jade
2. Baraka
3. Nightwolf
4. Sindel
5. Lui Kang. (There, I said it.. Never fear this character in the slightest.)

 

[Enenra]

Wow I guess he really is the worst male Ninja. : (
I'd start demanding buffs if I thought NRS would give them to him.

He needs them. I see no reason why NRS wouldn't give them to him. Three buffs on already existing moves, THREE, and he is a top 5 character. Easily.
He may be my secondary but dammit NRS are you listening to us!?

 

[PimpUigi]

He needs them. I see no reason why NRS wouldn't give them to him. Three buffs on already existing moves, THREE, and he is a top 5 character. Easily.
He may be my secondary but dammit NRS are you listening to us!?

Thing is, there's only one more hotfix coming...it's not going to fix Sub Zero