Eddy Wang
Skarlet scientist
After playing this game for a while, I can't say that I don't enjoy it at least some part of it, but it always gets me the feeling that the game itself has its shortcomings on things I feel the game could offer a bit more.
The annoyance of things that you have to deal with this game, it doesn't push you to become better, it pushes you to become bored of the game, stay out as much as possible, and then when you return you realize why you left in the first place and it keeps going back and forth.
I don't want to throw my pitchforks at NRS, or like the terms some would use, burn our bridges, I understand if they don't have enough manpower to test through game bugs and glitches when they have to focus on releasing DLCs every X months and content for the game which seems to be main focus, I thought I could make this thread so if any NRS employee would read it, could make it with the open mind, free of name callings and words that otherwise would lead to think that I hate the game. More like a suggestion consumer experience that is willing to give feedback towards having an everlasting MK11 game which not only myself, but maybe even others get to enjoy this game a lot more.
For once I believe, that if those instances aren't looked at and stay the way it is, the game will always require drastic changes to the characters itself and we won't even be able to Enjoy somethings because the loop we are playing no matter the superficial change will always be the same.
#1 Mechanics Refinement
Problem 1: Short Hops
Some of the things that I like the implementation of it but doesn't seem to work that well IMO are short hops, for moves that are supposed to go over anything that is a low, short hops have very little use because they don't have invulnerability once executed, which makes something like, using short hop to avoid d3, d4 and d1s after you block certain moves or force them to block certain moves a lot more irrelevant since any of those moves can get you even when you are already in the air. With Short hops having a sort of invincibility against these attacks will provide a different layer in the close game other than block or FLB or tech a throw in order to keep the offense going, you can still have lows that Anti-Air jump attacks, even if I'm not really a fan of this design, but short hops up close would give more depth to the poke meta itself.
Problem 2: Anti-Airs
I feel like this one go back and forth with the short hop, and there is no denying Jumps are really strong in this game, due to the random timing factor that it provides, there is a strong discouragement to anti-air someone consistently unless they have a good and fast hitbox for it
How do you solve these 2 problems? Simple, you add a feature in the game engine that does the following:
a) Define the type of attacks used in the game(, Projectile, Special attack, Fatal blow, Throws, Command Throws, High, Mid, Low, Overhead) Any move in the game will be under some of these categories
b)Then define another code which one can say: attack x is immune to Y type of attacks for X amount of frames.
This will solve a lot of nuances, it means when you design immunity proprieties for a fighting game, its a good and practical idea, define proprieties for moves, even if those are lows, highs, specials, normals, anything should be tagged, not just projectiles, or throws, so that when you face issues such as the one we do now, proper tools to balance those moves are easier to implement
Problem 3: Mobility and back dash activating counter hits
For some reason, I feel like space is so important in this game, that dashing into normals kinda cheats it, I honestly feel this game doesn't need a cancelable forward dash, definitely no when most of the moves already cover enough space to even call itself a footsie tool, I definitely feel this game doesn't need forward cancelable dashes, I would keep the back dashes however since those seem more clunky. Someone being counter hit or Crushing Blows while trying to escape its not the right way IMO.
problem 4: Throws
Considering the input lag of this game are 4 frames, I have to congratulate NRS to give a game with the minimum amount possible of input lag, however throws are too fast in this game, they are a 50-50 on their own, and the tech window is incredibly small.
If the time someone takes to input a throw is technically 14 frames due the input lag, the time someone takes to react to the animation after throw starts are 6 frames due the input lag, and the time one takes to break a throw window are 4 frames less due to the input lag. I sometimes let go off block as late as I can but in that last instant they are still able to grab me and it feels unfair, to avoid throws I have to commit to duck, and I as a reactionary player rather than a gambler, it's not a decision that I think it benefits my archetype at all.
It is not exactly the input lag that is the problem, but the windows which the throws are made and the window which the throws are meant to be broken are directly affected by the input lag itself, if you really want to give players a game with this threshold, it should compensate for the amount of input lag that it has, meaning a 14 to 12f throw window, and 4 more frames to break both throws, this would make a huge difference and even with online lag or anything else, the frames that compensate will directly affect players reactions more often.
Problem 5: Flawless Blocks
You guys nerfed to make offense more relevant, that's cool, but here are some things that feel unfair:
a) There are moves when blocked have a pushback animation, the same happens when the same move is flawless blocked, this honestly shouldn't be, if a player flawless block an attack he should launch, he was already rewarded for guessing correctly, it shouldn't require the player to be extra clean in order to get a punish he already made the right read, there is a lot of moves in this game with this problem and its a turn off from the game, it doesn't matter if you make the right read, you can't still launch it because opponent's move is just too good even if you flawless block.
A good idea would be, any move that has a pushback and its safe, when flawless blocked the character shouldn't be pushed back, a character should always come out of the block stun 2 frames earlier without using launchers at least to reduce other players to spam moves when blocked this would give so much depth to the game.
Imagine if a move is -7 on block, but you flawless block that move instead, now that move it's -9 on block making it punishable, you can still have those moves which you guys decide how negative it will be if flawless blocked, but would be nice to come out of block 2 frames earlier than regular block.
Problem 6: Poke system
I'm sorry NRS but its trash, its literally the worst poke system you guys ever designed, you guys literally broke the written rule I thought you guys would never do after mk9.
You guys gave characters with 5f to 7f pokes that are -3 to -5 frames on block on games where the fastest mid for some are 13f, by default these characters are always plus when they poke is blocked, some have insane range have no gaps when special cancelable, less recovery even if it whiffs and make them a lot more spammy, its basically MK9 Cyrax all over again with a 0f jab that is 8f on a game where the majority of the characters jabs were 12f startup
Suggestion: Just stop, give pokes some better rules because right now they are terrible, Start by losing that window in between a poke and a special on block, that can't be interrupted by anything, these are literally terrible. Every character in this game when they poke, they should be around -6 at best, and no pokes should've been 5 to 6f, the fastest poke in the game should be 7f and finally mids should be 11f startup just like MKX, not 13f
Problem 7: Punishing
Some moves have pushbacks for unnecessary reasons, the fact that we can't punish -7 with 7f normals it is already an ideal I don't think anyone wants any more, so maybe allowing us to punish moves from what it is really worth it like, if its -7 and we use a 7f move we can punish. On top of reducing the amount of blockstun which feels like we're playing underwater for the most time especially when we can do much quicker responses would be so nice.
I could go on and talk about character specifics, but I think these 7 issues are what currently holds MK11 to be a game everyone can enjoy and strive to become stronger, these 7 issues are key factor on how the meta is shaped in this game, if these 7 issues are no more, I can guarantee you we would have a much healthy game, less complaint about moves, and if by any chance moves started to be an issue again after this, it wouldn't be because of these problems.
The annoyance of things that you have to deal with this game, it doesn't push you to become better, it pushes you to become bored of the game, stay out as much as possible, and then when you return you realize why you left in the first place and it keeps going back and forth.
I don't want to throw my pitchforks at NRS, or like the terms some would use, burn our bridges, I understand if they don't have enough manpower to test through game bugs and glitches when they have to focus on releasing DLCs every X months and content for the game which seems to be main focus, I thought I could make this thread so if any NRS employee would read it, could make it with the open mind, free of name callings and words that otherwise would lead to think that I hate the game. More like a suggestion consumer experience that is willing to give feedback towards having an everlasting MK11 game which not only myself, but maybe even others get to enjoy this game a lot more.
For once I believe, that if those instances aren't looked at and stay the way it is, the game will always require drastic changes to the characters itself and we won't even be able to Enjoy somethings because the loop we are playing no matter the superficial change will always be the same.
#1 Mechanics Refinement
Problem 1: Short Hops
Some of the things that I like the implementation of it but doesn't seem to work that well IMO are short hops, for moves that are supposed to go over anything that is a low, short hops have very little use because they don't have invulnerability once executed, which makes something like, using short hop to avoid d3, d4 and d1s after you block certain moves or force them to block certain moves a lot more irrelevant since any of those moves can get you even when you are already in the air. With Short hops having a sort of invincibility against these attacks will provide a different layer in the close game other than block or FLB or tech a throw in order to keep the offense going, you can still have lows that Anti-Air jump attacks, even if I'm not really a fan of this design, but short hops up close would give more depth to the poke meta itself.
Problem 2: Anti-Airs
I feel like this one go back and forth with the short hop, and there is no denying Jumps are really strong in this game, due to the random timing factor that it provides, there is a strong discouragement to anti-air someone consistently unless they have a good and fast hitbox for it
How do you solve these 2 problems? Simple, you add a feature in the game engine that does the following:
a) Define the type of attacks used in the game(, Projectile, Special attack, Fatal blow, Throws, Command Throws, High, Mid, Low, Overhead) Any move in the game will be under some of these categories
b)Then define another code which one can say: attack x is immune to Y type of attacks for X amount of frames.
This will solve a lot of nuances, it means when you design immunity proprieties for a fighting game, its a good and practical idea, define proprieties for moves, even if those are lows, highs, specials, normals, anything should be tagged, not just projectiles, or throws, so that when you face issues such as the one we do now, proper tools to balance those moves are easier to implement
Problem 3: Mobility and back dash activating counter hits
For some reason, I feel like space is so important in this game, that dashing into normals kinda cheats it, I honestly feel this game doesn't need a cancelable forward dash, definitely no when most of the moves already cover enough space to even call itself a footsie tool, I definitely feel this game doesn't need forward cancelable dashes, I would keep the back dashes however since those seem more clunky. Someone being counter hit or Crushing Blows while trying to escape its not the right way IMO.
problem 4: Throws
Considering the input lag of this game are 4 frames, I have to congratulate NRS to give a game with the minimum amount possible of input lag, however throws are too fast in this game, they are a 50-50 on their own, and the tech window is incredibly small.
If the time someone takes to input a throw is technically 14 frames due the input lag, the time someone takes to react to the animation after throw starts are 6 frames due the input lag, and the time one takes to break a throw window are 4 frames less due to the input lag. I sometimes let go off block as late as I can but in that last instant they are still able to grab me and it feels unfair, to avoid throws I have to commit to duck, and I as a reactionary player rather than a gambler, it's not a decision that I think it benefits my archetype at all.
It is not exactly the input lag that is the problem, but the windows which the throws are made and the window which the throws are meant to be broken are directly affected by the input lag itself, if you really want to give players a game with this threshold, it should compensate for the amount of input lag that it has, meaning a 14 to 12f throw window, and 4 more frames to break both throws, this would make a huge difference and even with online lag or anything else, the frames that compensate will directly affect players reactions more often.
Problem 5: Flawless Blocks
You guys nerfed to make offense more relevant, that's cool, but here are some things that feel unfair:
a) There are moves when blocked have a pushback animation, the same happens when the same move is flawless blocked, this honestly shouldn't be, if a player flawless block an attack he should launch, he was already rewarded for guessing correctly, it shouldn't require the player to be extra clean in order to get a punish he already made the right read, there is a lot of moves in this game with this problem and its a turn off from the game, it doesn't matter if you make the right read, you can't still launch it because opponent's move is just too good even if you flawless block.
A good idea would be, any move that has a pushback and its safe, when flawless blocked the character shouldn't be pushed back, a character should always come out of the block stun 2 frames earlier without using launchers at least to reduce other players to spam moves when blocked this would give so much depth to the game.
Imagine if a move is -7 on block, but you flawless block that move instead, now that move it's -9 on block making it punishable, you can still have those moves which you guys decide how negative it will be if flawless blocked, but would be nice to come out of block 2 frames earlier than regular block.
Problem 6: Poke system
I'm sorry NRS but its trash, its literally the worst poke system you guys ever designed, you guys literally broke the written rule I thought you guys would never do after mk9.
You guys gave characters with 5f to 7f pokes that are -3 to -5 frames on block on games where the fastest mid for some are 13f, by default these characters are always plus when they poke is blocked, some have insane range have no gaps when special cancelable, less recovery even if it whiffs and make them a lot more spammy, its basically MK9 Cyrax all over again with a 0f jab that is 8f on a game where the majority of the characters jabs were 12f startup
Suggestion: Just stop, give pokes some better rules because right now they are terrible, Start by losing that window in between a poke and a special on block, that can't be interrupted by anything, these are literally terrible. Every character in this game when they poke, they should be around -6 at best, and no pokes should've been 5 to 6f, the fastest poke in the game should be 7f and finally mids should be 11f startup just like MKX, not 13f
Problem 7: Punishing
Some moves have pushbacks for unnecessary reasons, the fact that we can't punish -7 with 7f normals it is already an ideal I don't think anyone wants any more, so maybe allowing us to punish moves from what it is really worth it like, if its -7 and we use a 7f move we can punish. On top of reducing the amount of blockstun which feels like we're playing underwater for the most time especially when we can do much quicker responses would be so nice.
I could go on and talk about character specifics, but I think these 7 issues are what currently holds MK11 to be a game everyone can enjoy and strive to become stronger, these 7 issues are key factor on how the meta is shaped in this game, if these 7 issues are no more, I can guarantee you we would have a much healthy game, less complaint about moves, and if by any chance moves started to be an issue again after this, it wouldn't be because of these problems.
