How can Mk12 be better than Mk11?

[-Nachtmahr-]

Idk, 11 is fun so far but has the typical nrs jank attached to it. But they are more competent than they were before. They still need to learn how to balance a game properly though and stop making derp characters such as liu kang or cetrion, who is and looks too much like injustice. I like the slower pace and hope that 11 will live on for more than a year since i am not a fan of injustice and superheroes. Then i'd be absent again and won't recognize the new and the old players lol.
Also, people who cry for tits should prob go out more or watch some pr0nhub. Kitana and Skarlet have great outfits and you can still let the inner weeb out and stare at their buttcheeks smh

 

[trufenix]

DA was a mix in all fairness. Johnny wasn't involved in the SF in the original timeline iirc, DA was more about bringing warriors from across the realms to fight the Deadly Alliance.

Johnny, Jax, Sonya, Kung Lao, Kenshi, and Cyrax all fought for Special Forces in DA. So did Hsu Hao until he betrayed them, it was an integral part of the plot. They were Raiden's heroes for that game, in DE he specifically name drops them as having failed. The only non-SF good guys in DA are Sub Zero, Bo Rai Cho and Li Mei and they're all from outworld.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

I'm pretty sure you can have sex appeal without being half-nude.

Saying a woman has to be wearing next to nothing to be sexy is super patriarchal and an extremely outdated belief. It's just a terrible argument overall.

I don't know why a couple people keep bringing this up in every thread. You notice they never complain about the male outfits. It's just a distraction from the real issues.

You can have sex appeal without being half nude but sometimes is better to just go the lazy route and just make them half nude. Its like trying to display that Shao is strong so they remove most of his clothing to expose his bare abs and chest. I used Mileena and Skarlet as examples because both actually have a reason to be half nude.
Mileena literally uses your body as a distraction. It can be seen in several of her fatalites and thats her character. There is nothing wrong with that. It wouldnt have the same effect with her caressing her body as she walks towards you if she was in a full dress or burka.
Skarlet's design LITERALLY doesnt make sense because of how her blood powers are. She is limiting herself in that regard. It wouldnt make sense for Sonya/Jaqui/Cass to be half nude cause shes in the army and there are uniforms. I can maybe argue Cass if she was younger as she was rebellious and her dad is JC but even then it wouldnt be to the extent that Mileena is. Jade/Kitana are also a case by case as they are both some form of royalty and idk the fashion sense over there in Edenia but judging by the outfits I have seen so far, there doesnt seem to be a big need for clothing.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Idk, 11 is fun so far but has the typical nrs jank attached to it. But they are more competent than they were before. They still need to learn how to balance a game properly though and stop making derp characters such as liu kang or cetrion, who is and looks too much like injustice. I like the slower pace and hope that 11 will live on for more than a year since i am not a fan of injustice and superheroes. Then i'd be absent again and won't recognize the new and the old players lol.
Also, people who cry for tits should prob go out more or watch some pr0nhub. Kitana and Skarlet have great outfits and you can still let the inner weeb out and stare at their buttcheeks smh

NRS jank is what makes it MK. I dont want it being like other fighting games. I dont want to play SF or Marvel but with MK as the title. I want my face paced, janky, wild, sexy game but more refined. MK11 refined itself so much that it lost everything that made it MK. Its a mess and needs to die so we can get MK12.

 

[Hacenit]

MK11 refined itself so much that it lost everything that made it MK.

I really don't think so. It's as hammy as it needed to be, the characters are great and the gameplay is rather welcoming to newcomers. Although I may have liked the game to not be as shiny, I think the ability to make such aestheics was lost a while back.
My reply to the thread was a joke because I genuinely do not think NRS can do better aside from going into a completely different direction. They could make the game less annoying, sure. But the game itself is great and I love it.

 

[haketh]

All I want are more bright colors again cuz MK was never this dark back in the old games color palette wise.

And for them to finally please God have a soundtrack

 

[Nephrite]

Yeah MK11 really doesn't have the MK vibes in the menus. It's more Injustice vibes with all the grays and black colours. Also combo dmg not being shown in percentages, but in pts makes it even more so. Bring back the percentages.

 

[QueenOmega]

I'm pretty sure you can have sex appeal without being half-nude.

Saying a woman has to be wearing next to nothing to be sexy is super patriarchal and an extremely outdated belief. It's just a terrible argument overall.

I don't know why a couple people keep bringing this up in every thread. You notice they never complain about the male outfits. It's just a distraction from the real issues.

At this point is better to just ignore them, no way you are gonna convince them there is no SJW hidden agenda illuminati bullshit ruining their games.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The scars are optional. And in my layout he's wearing a rather small jacket. You can also outfit him with a pretty tight shirt.
View attachment 16059
View attachment 16060
I'm not complaining about that though.
I wish we could give Erron more of a cowboy stripper aesthetic.

I wouldn't say either of those outfits are designed for sex appeal. I think that's really a stretch.

"Small jacket" lol. Meanwhile Skarlet is actually wearing a full-length skin tight mesh bodysuit in your picture.

 

[Hacenit]

I wouldn't say either of those outfits are designed for sex appeal. I think that's really a stretch.

"Small jacket" lol. Meanwhile Skarlet is actually wearing a full-length skin tight mesh bodysuit in your picture.

Somebody saw Kabal, who is usually a hideous burn victims wearing a duster with a bunch of black cloth underneath and went "why don't we give him a not burned skin where you can see his pecs". Granted, I am not attracted to dudes, so I can't really judge him on the sexy scale.
Also not my Skarlet picture lol, I like most of Skarlet's skins. The retcon with her powers happened back in the MKX comics so it wasn't a surprise.

#bringbacktheduster

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Somebody saw Kabal, who is usually a hideous burn victims wearing a duster with a bunch of black cloth underneath and went "why don't we give him a not burned skin where you can see his pecs". Granted, I am not attracted to dudes, so I can't really judge him on the sexy scale.
Also not my Skarlet picture lol, I like most of Skarlet's skins. The retcon with her powers happened back in the MKX comics so it wasn't a surprise.

#bringbacktheduster

He's a fighter. Traditionally real-life fighters including boxers, kick boxers, and MMA artists don't even wear shirts. It has nothing to do with sex, it's a fighting game.

You guys are trying to spin drama out of everything.

 

[Hacenit]

At this point is better to just ignore them, no way you are gonna convince them there is no SJW hidden agenda illuminati bullshit ruining their games.

Lol whatever the hell is going on at NRS I'm pretty sure SJW or whatever has nothing to do with it. Have you seen the latest Jade skin?
I just do not understand what's going on really. Is it a guest design, or did they decide to be more lax with the skins? I wouldn't really care if they didn't make a fuss about being embarrassed by the old outfits and then made Jade wear the hot wicked witch Halloween outfit.

All of this doesn't really matter to the gameplay and story, and only is partially related to the presentation. I always saw MK as somewhat of a videogame equivalent of an 80s slasher movie with its excessive violence, pointless sexualisation, redundant plots and cheesy one liners. That's why I felt the slasher guests of MKX fit in so well. While less sexualisation is a very, very minor nitpick MK11 feels less like a slasher movie but more like a videogame equivalent of a modern over the top action movie.

 

[Hacenit]

He's a fighter. Traditionally real-life fighters including boxers, kick boxers, and MMA artists don't even wear shirts. It has nothing to do with sex, it's a fighting game.

You guys are trying to spin drama out of everything.

He's less of a fighter and more of a mercenary really. He mostly uses hookswords. I guess in 11 he is part of Kano's arena, but I thought it was an exception for Sonya.
No drama, just sayin'.

 

[xKMMx]

Interesting characters.
Actual cool looking skins not just pallet swaps of the same 4 skins (oh wait this is MK pallet swaps is their thing since MK1 sooooo....)
Fluid gameplay that doesn't feel like controls are on a half second delay between button presses and animations playing.
A return to cool looking stages with hype music.
Kill off old tired charcters like Raiden, Scorpion and Subzero. I know I get it they're staples for fan boys but are never all that interesting and its just old and I personally think it would show a ton of balls to kill off main characters like they do in the best TV shows like the Sopranos or Breaking Bad.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Interesting characters.
Actual cool looking skins not just pallet swaps of the same 4 skins (oh wait this is MK pallet swaps is their thing since MK1 sooooo....)
Fluid gameplay that doesn't feel like controls are on a half second delay between button presses and animations playing.
A return to cool looking stages with hype music.
Kill off old tired charcters like Raiden, Scorpion and Subzero. I know I get it they're staples for fan boys but are never all that interesting and its just old and I personally think it would show a ton of balls to kill off main characters like they do in the best TV shows like the Sopranos or Breaking Bad.

I wouldnt mind removing the oldies and then having them introduced back as DLC. It gets rid of the guest character complaints that also plague the game and it opens up room for new characters.
Ferra/Tor was awesome
Kollector needs another chance to shine because I love his character and his personality. Also who the fuck thinks of giving a character 6 arms but having 2 of them be used as straps for their backpacks? Genius!
D'Vorah gets 1 more game but this time as the main protagonist.
Sindel returns as a normal character.
Pull characters from Armageddon. Darius/Meat/Li Mei/Shujinko/Chameleon/ect We need new faces cause MK is starting to look like Dragon ball games that recycle the same damn story every time for everything with a fresh coat of paint every so often.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

He's less of a fighter and more of a mercenary really. He mostly uses hookswords. I guess in 11 he is part of Kano's arena, but I thought it was an exception for Sonya.

I'm pretty sure mecenaries have to fight

You're really kinda stretching this one, haha.

 

[MK Dragon]

First of all, MK11 is best in the franchise to me in terms of graphics, characters' looks, depth and roster. That being said, with a few tweaks and one big change I think we could have the best fighting game in history of all fighting games:

1. Modify variation system - I think we're too far gone to rewind this feature and while for some characters it works as you can really make them unique and the moves are actually great replacements that would be hard to implement otherwise, there's too many characters were the variation options are very limited or are very weak to take a slot. I think scaling it back to two with each one meaning totally different play styles that are just set and not customisable, but very deep would be an option.

2. No customisation - I appreciate the effort in MK11 by NRS, but I doubt it's about giving fans what they want and rather a way to get us to spend money. The random colour combo's, the lack of diversity, not just giving us MK2/3 skin for the ninjas but have us grind to get the right combination, (false) advertisement of skins in trailers - from the first of Scorpion in MK3 outfit and MK2 mask to Terminator's iconic look - it just feels all around cheap. This would also eliminate the constant requests for skins and make it all about now, not trying to relive the old days. It's time to let go for at least one game.

3. Zoom out again - we are close to the action, which has its advantages but it's one of my main gripes with NRS' choice with regards to fights backgrounds. Most arenas, even the outdoors ones feel very enclosed and I love stages where you can get a sense of where you are, a sense of depth. If they stay in the current format, then I'd say zoom out for certain arenas and keep it close for others. For example: Dragon Grotto, the Fight Club, Tarkatan War Kamp (has depth and doesn't feel closed off) or Hideout stage zoomed out wouldn't change anything, but think about Koliseum, Sea of Blood or Fire Garden and its surroundings.

If they decide to keep it close, then I'd suggest taking it to the next step:

BIG CHANGE:
Cinematic fighting - shoot the fights with several cameras in 3D close, far away and from all possible angles to make it feasible and then have a cinematic mode and or have us choose which camera we prefer. This would give us the closest to a 3D experience without the fighting actually being full on 3D. While sidestepping would be silly, I would love a dodge option. This would also make the arenas much more immersive and the whole fighting a much more intense experience.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

1. Modify variation system - I think we're too far gone to rewind this feature and while for some characters it works as you can really make them unique and the moves are actually great replacements that would be hard to implement otherwise, there's too many characters were the variation options are very limited or are very weak to take a slot. I think scaling it back to two with each one meaning totally different play styles that are just set and not customisable, but very deep would be an option.

I think we have to ask if it's an issue of depth, or just the way it's setup though. For example, I can name a few characters who already seem to have a preponderance of tools and something for every situation:
Geras, Sonya, Liu, Cetrion, etc.

Those characters can pressure, can zone and control space throughout the entire screen, can play footsies in the midrange, stagger or mix you at point blank, and generally have a tool for every single situation they encounter. So do we really need to give them more tools by increasing the options available?

Erron Black is another character where, despite not being absolute top tier, can zone, mix, dot, get in quickly, has a full screen fatal blow, etc. What else does he need in order to be considered complete?

Maybe it's just the actual moves or mechanics themselves. You can take the existing number of slots and create a variation that requires a lot of time and practice to master. Upgraded Jacqui is one example.. That's not the kind of character you're going to have fully fleshed out after a couple days of practice.

Anyway, just food for thought.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

I think we have to ask if it's an issue of depth, or just the way it's setup though. For example, I can name a few characters who already seem to have a preponderance of tools and something for every situation:
Geras, Sonya, Liu, Cetrion, etc.

Those characters can pressure, can zone and control space throughout the entire screen, can play footsies in the midrange, stagger or mix you at point blank, and generally have a tool for every single situation they encounter. So do we really need to give them more tools by increasing the options available?

Erron Black is another character where, despite not being absolute top tier, can zone, mix, dot, get in quickly, has a full screen fatal blow, etc. What else does he need in order to be considered complete?

Maybe it's just the actual moves or mechanics themselves. You can take the existing number of slots and create a variation that requires a lot of time and practice to master. Upgraded Jacqui is one example.. That's not the kind of character you're going to have fully fleshed out after a couple days of practice.

Anyway, just food for thought.

A good amount of the variation issues could easily be fixed by adding or taking away things from variations and putting them in others.
EB could have his DoT and zoning capabilities in one var while the other is mix up based with no long ranged options.

Variations dont really fall into boxes that people expected from them.

 

[Jynks]

I think NRS has been methodically improving, literally everything in their games at a pretty hardcore rate. Every game has so many community requested things. MK11 is basically a point by point reproduction of this thread for MKx. So they are nailing so much.

Still, what I think is the largest problem NRS hasn't tackled yet, is the HitBox issue in the games, that is a legacy problem from MK9.

The NRS games use mesh based collision detection. This is a function of how 3D Technology works and without going to hardcore into it there, is what I guess is easiest to generalise as a rounding error due to how point matrices work. W/E. the point is that ALL these problems with hitboxes in NRS games are caused by mesh collision errors, and while it is solvable and in the long run probably the best way to do it, I personally think it will always have real issues for the foreseeable, long term future.

This is what I would love to see in MK12 or IJ3.

I really would like them to consider scrapping mesh detection completely and move to a Street Fighter style 2D HitBox overlay method. Something simple, yet so customisable and tweakable. The problem with the mesh method is that it is all maths, as it is "real world" collision. It works or it fails, and there is little you can do to really deal with these intermittent errors. With 2D hitboxes you can just scale it so on this frame it is this shape and ... bang .. perfect hitboxes. Obviously all games have hitbox errors, compounded by rollback (which is what 90% of those crazy hitbox error vids you see are) but that would be my suggestion.

Move MK12 to 2D Hitboxes.

Anyway, regardless of how they do it, I feel that overhauling the HitBox system is the next massive step for NRS. They are getting so much bang in the middle of the target now, and I really think that this hitbox issue is one the last massive problems, as bad as the old NetCode was an issue, that NRS games have.

The thing is MK11 is built on MKx, which is built on MK9.. this means that to change how the hitboxes works is to basically re-build HUGE chunks of how they have built on the engine. It is a "back to drawing board" type thing. It is no "easy fix", but a "fix" that would be huge step forward. However they do it.

 

[Testurmight19]

1. Variations need to go
2. Bigger roster

3.konquest mode needs to return. Story was great, but this is a video game and I wanna play it, not watch it.
4. Stage fatalities need to be standard in EVERY game
5.Krypt should to back to graveyard style to put more focus on kharacters
6.More variety to combos and more combo extenders
7.Get rid of fatal blows
8. Keep krushing blows but as a visual aspect.
9.get rid of Jacqui
10.no more towers of time
11.Bring back Test your luck
12.Secret kharacters to unlock

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I could expatiate a veritable dissertation on the "wrongs" of MK11

Please do

 

[CrimsonShadow]

9.get rid of Jacqui

Wtf

 

[LaidbackOne]

Yeah MK11 really doesn't have the MK vibes in the menus. It's more Injustice vibes with all the grays and black colours. Also combo dmg not being shown in percentages, but in pts makes it even more so. Bring back the percentages.

With all the grays and blacks? Did you play MKX? lol

 

[Rasilover]

Allowing projectiles to clash