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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

BSJeebus

BSJeebus

Future Karate Expert
So, if I am reading the patch notes right, Johnny cannot combo off of Rising Star when hitting an airborne opponent anymore?
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Doing ok with Outtake. However, there are serious counters to him. Geras, Sub Zero, Cassie, Nightwolf, and almost anyone with a teleport will not fear this S+ character.

I dont understand what's so good about this. You can simply hesitate after Cage downpokes to just not care about Rising Star. Cage isnt in a position to attack without a fast mid follow up. I just simply block and they mash into me. If I don't they can back off and use a forward advancing mid. Maybe you get a down poke. 124 still has the same issues. People just back up and down poke. Seriously, I'm at a loss here. Everyone blocks just the same. I'm still limited to d4 and throws. You will obviously land the occasional combo, but they arent anything, i'd say, are better than his other variations. I kept finding myself out of meter after using amped Rising Star so much for little to no gain. The overhead does land a lot, but I have a hard time believing people wont soon catch on and learn to block it. I feel like the whole point is to spam forceballs until they get in your footsie range. That makes total sense. They get there, I throw shit out, it's blocked....maybe I'm plus but then they just back up. I'm not about to risk shadow kick, and forceball whiffs at that plus frame distance. What am I supposed to do here?

This is not complaining. I'm genuinely curious as to how this variation is better than the others. I want to know how you guys are playing it. I watched Sonic use it and I'm astounded by how many times his opponents let go of block....That's not happening at my current level of play. Help.

On the bright side, the forceball game can be so fantastic. Characters like Jax are basically fucking screwed. They eat so much damage on chip alone that it seems completely unfair.
 
T

Tundra81

Kombatant
Name v.5.0 said:
Doing ok with Outtake. However, there are serious counters to him. Geras, Sub Zero, Cassie, Nightwolf, and almost anyone with a teleport will not fear this S+ character.

I dont understand what's so good about this. You can simply hesitate after Cage downpokes to just not care about Rising Star. Cage isnt in a position to attack without a fast mid follow up. I just simply block and they mash into me. If I don't they can back off and use a forward advancing mid. Maybe you get a down poke. 124 still has the same issues. People just back up and down poke. Seriously, I'm at a loss here. Everyone blocks just the same. I'm still limited to d4 and throws. You will obviously land the occasional combo, but they arent anything, i'd say, are better than his other variations. I kept finding myself out of meter after using amped Rising Star so much for little to no gain. The overhead does land a lot, but I have a hard time believing people wont soon catch on and learn to block it. I feel like the whole point is to spam forceballs until they get in your footsie range. That makes total sense. They get there, I throw shit out, it's blocked....maybe I'm plus but then they just back up. I'm not about to risk shadow kick, and forceball whiffs at that plus frame distance. What am I supposed to do here?

This is not complaining. I'm genuinely curious as to how this variation is better than the others. I want to know how you guys are playing it. I watched Sonic use it and I'm astounded by how many times his opponents let go of block....That's not happening at my current level of play. Help.

On the bright side, the forceball game can be so fantastic. Characters like Jax are basically fucking screwed. They eat so much damage on chip alone that it seems completely unfair.
Click to expand...
This is pretty spot on to what my experience has been with him tonight. Lack of meter was an issue but I know that's on me and I need to manage it better. Force Balls seem really strong. I actually had to disable incoming messages because the hate mail was coming in hot, Kombat League, lol. Force Balls are going to destroy impatient players but they're not going to keep people out all game and that's fine. Still not sold on picking this variation over Showstopper but I think they are meant to compliment one another. I think we just need to find when to use Outtake and when he needs to sit the bench.

Literally no reason to pick Shock Jock now though which kinda stinks. It'd be nice to have 3 viable variations.
 
mrapchem

mrapchem

Apprentice
Name v.5.0 said:
Doing ok with Outtake. However, there are serious counters to him. Geras, Sub Zero, Cassie, Nightwolf, and almost anyone with a teleport will not fear this S+ character.

I dont understand what's so good about this. You can simply hesitate after Cage downpokes to just not care about Rising Star. Cage isnt in a position to attack without a fast mid follow up. I just simply block and they mash into me. If I don't they can back off and use a forward advancing mid. Maybe you get a down poke. 124 still has the same issues. People just back up and down poke. Seriously, I'm at a loss here. Everyone blocks just the same. I'm still limited to d4 and throws. You will obviously land the occasional combo, but they arent anything, i'd say, are better than his other variations. I kept finding myself out of meter after using amped Rising Star so much for little to no gain. The overhead does land a lot, but I have a hard time believing people wont soon catch on and learn to block it. I feel like the whole point is to spam forceballs until they get in your footsie range. That makes total sense. They get there, I throw shit out, it's blocked....maybe I'm plus but then they just back up. I'm not about to risk shadow kick, and forceball whiffs at that plus frame distance. What am I supposed to do here?

This is not complaining. I'm genuinely curious as to how this variation is better than the others. I want to know how you guys are playing it. I watched Sonic use it and I'm astounded by how many times his opponents let go of block....That's not happening at my current level of play. Help.

On the bright side, the forceball game can be so fantastic. Characters like Jax are basically fucking screwed. They eat so much damage on chip alone that it seems completely unfair.
Click to expand...
It appears as though that your prognosis of what Outtake is supposed to do is exactly what this variation is designed to do. From how it looks, his mid projectiles are supposed to harangue people from distance in order to entice then to get closer to you. Once they get there, then you do your JC stuff on them.

The problem with all of this is that our JC stuff isn't nearly as potent as people make it out to be, especially in the wake of these single-digit, safe, combo-starting mids that have good range. And now that the low fireball completely replaces our plus-on-block straight forceballs(that still whiff on a good chunk of the cast), we have to rely on plus frame strings that end with highs and can be made irrelevant by certain characters.

Johnny Cage is a pitbull with no teeth and a broken jaw - everyone sees a muscular animal that looks and sounds like it can kill you. Once it's forced to bite, its real vulnerabilities render it nearly useless.
 
lionheart21

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
Mikemetroid said:
HOld on lol I may of blown my load too early... I think Outtake actually is @Braindead

mbRS saves your ass and can condition your opponent like nothing ive used before... this is dumb
Click to expand...
The AMP Rising Star is the true key to the character that I've found thus far. The AMPed Forceballs seem to work best in the corner, but midscreen combos should be ended in AMP Rising Star on block.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Name v.5.0 said:
Doing ok with Outtake. However, there are serious counters to him. Geras, Sub Zero, Cassie, Nightwolf, and almost anyone with a teleport will not fear this S+ character.

I dont understand what's so good about this. You can simply hesitate after Cage downpokes to just not care about Rising Star. Cage isnt in a position to attack without a fast mid follow up. I just simply block and they mash into me. If I don't they can back off and use a forward advancing mid. Maybe you get a down poke. 124 still has the same issues. People just back up and down poke. Seriously, I'm at a loss here. Everyone blocks just the same. I'm still limited to d4 and throws. You will obviously land the occasional combo, but they arent anything, i'd say, are better than his other variations. I kept finding myself out of meter after using amped Rising Star so much for little to no gain. The overhead does land a lot, but I have a hard time believing people wont soon catch on and learn to block it. I feel like the whole point is to spam forceballs until they get in your footsie range. That makes total sense. They get there, I throw shit out, it's blocked....maybe I'm plus but then they just back up. I'm not about to risk shadow kick, and forceball whiffs at that plus frame distance. What am I supposed to do here?

This is not complaining. I'm genuinely curious as to how this variation is better than the others. I want to know how you guys are playing it. I watched Sonic use it and I'm astounded by how many times his opponents let go of block....That's not happening at my current level of play. Help.

On the bright side, the forceball game can be so fantastic. Characters like Jax are basically fucking screwed. They eat so much damage on chip alone that it seems completely unfair.
Click to expand...
This is not your experience. This is THE experience. You are reduced to d4 and throw.

In sonic videos people just randomly let go of block. Beats the shit out of me why as you have no mixup to condition them.

Anyone who says outtake is godlike, i would like to see video proof of it against competent cassie/sonya/jacqui mains.

All i see is kotal matches and other big bodies that can't dodge fireballs at all.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
Fuck trying to be optimal or counter pick, I’m just gonna use all three variations until I smash my controller.

Outtake and showstopper are good and I just can’t stop da jock lol
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
M.D. said:
This is not your experience. This is THE experience. You are reduced to d4 and throw.

In sonic videos people just randomly let go of block. Beats the shit out of me why as you have no mixup to condition them.

Anyone who says outtake is godlike, i would like to see video proof of it against competent cassie/sonya/jacqui mains.

All i see is kotal matches and other big bodies that can't dodge fireballs at all.
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It’s over man, this character isn’t getting any changes what’s so over lmao and if Johnny did somehow manage to be ass do you honestly think any of these people would eat crow and admit it? Lmao
 
R

Rain and Light

Noob
The balance team could really be a bunch of stooges now can they? They buff top tiers and adjust low tiers so they won't become op but at the same time giving those op tools to the top tier because they "need them" or some silly dung, but leave low tiers with that unshaken rule, as if overnight some random somebody is going to unlock the full potential of these low tiers and their true op ness will be witnessed and we are all just downplayers and Cage is top 1 easy brainddead win anybody can pick up and play GG no RE. Because Sonic and tweedy and a whole bunch of other low life pros claim so brainwashing this already susceptible and gullible community into believing something that is unbelievably false. They are all so stupid and ignorant WILLFULLY ignorant about the garbage they say but fail to realise the weight of their dollar store words to the enjoyment of many. Johnny is top 5 they claim... I'm seriously beginning to question the IQ of these... "Pro players" in other Figthing games the FGC stands for FIGHTING GAME COMMUNITY but to this community- the MK community it stands for FALSE GULLIBLE COMMUNITY. Because they speak out of their colans about characters they clearly know nothing about. Sonicfox is fighting people that clearly have never faught Cage in their life and refuse to disrespect the garbage dump that is Cage, they refuse to utilize pokes properly they refuse to counterpick they refuse to check they refuse to bring to the forefront to the uplayers main king the truth that REAL Johnny players have to deal with, everybody overstimates Cage to the point of false Contingency causing their own downfall and making what should be easy overly difficult. "Johnny is plus 6 UH OH, His super fast 14 frame advancing high that is full combo KB duckable and a 14 frame un hit confirmable mid, WHAT EVER SHALL I DO, Here let me just keep blocking and taking this unnecessary pressure that is completely false and i know how to count and 6 is higher than 3 and lius biggest plus frame IS 3 that's double the op therefore following this very intelligent rule Johnny is more OP than Liu Kang HURRP DURRRR" And people actually believe this too, that includes sonicfox lol. Very secure pro community we got here aye?
 
S

Sanjo

Noob
Rain and Light said:
The balance team could really be a bunch of stooges now can they? They buff top tiers and adjust low tiers so they won't become op but at the same time giving those op tools to the top tier because they "need them" or some silly dung, but leave low tiers with that unshaken rule, as if overnight some random somebody is going to unlock the full potential of these low tiers and their true op ness will be witnessed and we are all just downplayers and Cage is top 1 easy brainddead win anybody can pick up and play GG no RE. Because Sonic and tweedy and a whole bunch of other low life pros claim so brainwashing this already susceptible and gullible community into believing something that is unbelievably false. They are all so stupid and ignorant WILLFULLY ignorant about the garbage they say but fail to realise the weight of their dollar store words to the enjoyment of many. Johnny is top 5 they claim... I'm seriously beginning to question the IQ of these... "Pro players" in other Figthing games the FGC stands for FIGHTING GAME COMMUNITY but to this community- the MK community it stands for FALSE GULLIBLE COMMUNITY. Because they speak out of their colans about characters they clearly know nothing about. Sonicfox is fighting people that clearly have never faught Cage in their life and refuse to disrespect the garbage dump that is Cage, they refuse to utilize pokes properly they refuse to counterpick they refuse to check they refuse to bring to the forefront to the uplayers main king the truth that REAL Johnny players have to deal with, everybody overstimates Cage to the point of false Contingency causing their own downfall and making what should be easy overly difficult. "Johnny is plus 6 UH OH, His super fast 14 frame advancing high that is full combo KB duckable and a 14 frame un hit confirmable mid, WHAT EVER SHALL I DO, Here let me just keep blocking and taking this unnecessary pressure that is completely false and i know how to count and 6 is higher than 3 and lius biggest plus frame IS 3 that's double the op therefore following this very intelligent rule Johnny is more OP than Liu Kang HURRP DURRRR" And people actually believe this too, that includes sonicfox lol. Very secure pro community we got here aye?
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Yet aren't those low IQ low life pro players , who probably spend more time learning the game than you, better at the game than you? Isn't it possible that they have a better understanding of the game? You have the right to have your opinion but when you insult probably the best MK player and other very strong players, well... just keep it classy.
 
heildan

heildan

NANI?!
People are overeacting a lil' bit, no?

Either by saying he is Top 3, S-tier or whatever now, when he is not, and also by saying this variation is kinda shitty when its not.

We need to wait a little to see what can come out of this patch. Its too early for conclusions.

I really hate the whiffing stuff and I agree its a subject for complaints, but oh lord.

They just need to optimize Shock Jock and I'd be happy.
 
R

Rain and Light

Noob
Sanjo said:
Yet aren't those low IQ low life pro players , who probably spend more time learning the game than you, better at the game than you? Isn't it possible that they have a better understanding of the game? You have the right to have your opinion but when you insult probably the best MK player and other very strong players, well... just keep it classy.
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Obviously but that's my point. They're blatantly lying. I mean not even a individual drunk and high on meth would believe that lol. Outtake top 1? Because he has worse cetrion zoning and no tp? OH but D1 rising big ass whoop, I'm just waiting for this truly S tier broken high tier zero skill required no reads needed brain dead Broken trash character to have a 70% usage rate and 100% win rate at all major tournaments coming up correct? Oh wait, they are choosing to be low iq levels of stupid and claim Johnny is S tier haha lolol TROLOLOL, my ass, talk about propaganda bub, THIS is REAL fighting game propaganda. Don't let the CIS white male jock be buffed he's top tier BELIEVE ME, here let me show you by never ever choosing him at a tournament and not believing in my own false claims! Yeah!

I think my statement is earned. Even more so.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
These people calling out bullshit on pro players here have had hundreds, if not thousands of matches where the gameplay you see on sonic stream just does not work.

They got challenged on all guesses and footsies, they lost most of it, and in my oppinion are talking out of experience.

All this "pro" are better is blatantly misunderstood. The only difference between them and some people here are hours put in muscle memory and matchup experience. But it doesn't take practice for 5 years and godlike human reaction to see how you have no answer to frost walkback d4, which shits in literally everything some people here call godlike.

It just takes 20,30 or 50 matches against competent frost players to clearly see it without being a "pro".

We all use mathematical theorems at some point in our life. Some have hard demonstrations that we do not understand or have the sufficient practice to demonstrate them, but we can still understand the result and the effect nonetheless without being a math pro.

We're not all monkeys eating the controller you know, some of these people here very rational and logical and can clearly see an issue when they try what was preached 50, 100, 1000 times and it just doesn't live up to the preach.

I just want video proof of high level matches of players that actually KNOW the cage matchup, to see how this godlike moves and godlike d1 amp shoulder win matches easily, s tier way, against a good frost, kitana, skaret, cassie, sonya, jacqui, etc.

So far nobody backed it up by proof. Especially pro players. God I can't wait enough for the next major.
 
K

kcd117

Kombatant
I think most of yall are misunderstanding the purpose of his fireballs in the third variation...

Yes, it whiffs on crouch blocking people at mid range but that is kinda the point of it...
It is very good on block and has amazing recovey, can’t be jumped as you can amplify on reaction and will hit people standing. Since most character’s can’t win the trade here they’ll try to stay in the range it whiffs, which happens to be the range JC’s normals shine at! With his db3 neutral reset on block he can pretty much always play the game at the range he excels...

I don’t think this is his best variation (showstopper is still too good when forceballs don’t whiff) but it is def hella good and the go-to variation for every single matchup JC used to struggle pre-patch.
 
T

Tundra81

Kombatant
I've stopped amplifying force balls for the most part to save meter for the neutral. It's helped. I do like the fact that we can combo from full screen. If you Amp the double low and follow up with another low it combos for 170 ish. Is that considered a frame trap? I'm feeling this variation and I can't wait to keep playing him.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
kcd117 said:
I think most of yall are misunderstanding the purpose of his fireballs in the third variation...

Yes, it whiffs on crouch blocking people at mid range but that is kinda the point of it...
It is very good on block and has amazing recovey, can’t be jumped as you can amplify on reaction and will hit people standing. Since most character’s can’t win the trade here they’ll try to stay in the range it whiffs, which happens to be the range JC’s normals shine at! With his db3 neutral reset on block he can pretty much always play the game at the range he excels...

I don’t think this is his best variation (showstopper is still too good when forceballs don’t whiff) but it is def hella good and the go-to variation for every single matchup JC used to struggle pre-patch.
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You nailed it. It's a "out of the frying pan and into the fire" situation.

I'm still feeling it out, but I think I may just go 100% Outtake simply because it forces characters to act in a predictable way. Sure, they can slide, sand puddle, or teleport...because of course they will. We can use that to our advantage and still have a good inside game. Except against Nightwolf. Fuck that guy.
 
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