Question Ask Smoke Thread - Have Any Question? Post It Here!

[smokey]

So im not sure if this has been answered yet, had a flick through and didn't find anything on it:

Double cross-up whiffed TP's and avoiding going into a ball on block. Has anybody had a good look into this, i was really playing about with it over the last night, and FUCK i have never been punished so many times in my life for getting blocked teleports!

Basicly what happens is when you do a cross up jump punch or kick then cancel that into teleport, you will hit them with the first punch of the TP and then cross back over and WHIFF the second hit of the telepunch, leaving you in a fairly safe situation.

Best way i do this is from a cross over (pretty cool to whiff in the corner without the punch/kick because it sometimes does a TRIPLE cross up) as you are just level with their head, you input a reversed TP motion, and you will telepunch back over the top of them, which is pretty useless when it just whiffs, but when you catch them with the first hit, even if they try to anti air/anti cross up you, they will either get stuffed, or they will whiff leaving you to fully punish them.

In the corner (or VERY VERY VERY close to it) you can do this, jump into the wall and do the jip>tp whiff. You get a cross up from the jump, you then TP over the top of them *second crossup* and then you fall across their head, meaning 3 crossups!

I dont know how useful everybody will see this , so i put it in the questions thread so that i can get an opinion. How many people i see using whiffed TP's to throw their opponent off and to get in, only to get punched in the face on the way down... This wont completely avoid that, but it will sure as hell confuse your opponent, and i think the punish window is actually tighter because of the first hit

Hope this is good for somebody and that it makes a nice addition to smokes arsenal of crazy shit!

 

[cgarcia6310]

Just a Few Smoke Qs

Dashing Pokes: now im really not doing this right i see smoke players dash they d"+1 and into smoke ball..is there some sort of shortcut or are these peoples inputs just really fast?

Crossover Pressure: sometimes i just get caught with some1 beating me down by simply jumping over and neutral punching there any good way to punish them?

Tele Whiff: is this actually a good tech? when are the right or wrong times to do it?

returning pressure: whats the best way to make i guess a comeback with smoke? to really lay tht pressure down..since he doesnt have a meterless reset is there something to avoid wakeups and beat em dow

Long range game: smoke ball has no chip =[ which really hurts at a range cause it doesnt help give a life lead..what do u usually do from across the screen?

well thts all i can think of i may come up with more later but if u can answer thtd be great! Thanks!

 

[FrothyOmen]

1. for d1 > smoke bomb, you can input d+1, b, 2. This uses negative edge in your favor so you dont have to input d1db2. This is useful not only for regular poking, but most wall and antiair combos as well. It's very important you learn this.

2. In my experience, Smoke gets shit on in the crossover department. But then again I play exclusively online since I don't have any offline practice partners, so I'm not super helpful on this subject. [MENTION=2765]KT Smith NYC[/MENTION] get in here and help this man (and me? ;] )

3. Not really. You can throw it in every now and then, but it's punishable by full combo on prediction so you're better off to just... not.

4. Poke pressure. Abuse Smoke's d4, on hit it (i'm almost positive) frame traps into b2 if executed perfectly, so they have to block high or eat combo. Oki pressure too; Whiff a telepunch at the end of combos to safely get on top of your opponent for mindgames and more pressure. This doesn't work against all characters in all situations, if you want a more in-depth answer I again defer to Katie, arydious, Subserosmokerain, or anyone else on here that's actually able to play offline. Otherwise stay about half screen and try to put pressure on them as they "get in". 214 bomb antiair if they jump in on you, b23 overhead if they try to dash in.

5. Throw dat bomb. Acquire dat meter. Just don't get in an idle rhythm and eat a punish. Spacing for smoke should usually be about half or 2/3 screen at the most... you don't really want to be at full screen. Smoke has no options out there other than just throw bombs or try to IATP a jumping opponent.

 

[AK BeerGuyEd]

Crossover Pressure: sometimes i just get caught with some1 beating me down by simply jumping over and neutral punching there any good way to punish them?

Frothy covered most of the things you asked, but I will add to his post on this subject.

1. If your opponents gets into a pattern that you read NJP the cross over for a full combo punish. That will slow them down considerably.
2. Jump back and jk~airthrow them, and whiff a teleport for more pressure
3. You can also ex shake the cross over pressure for 9% damage.
4. You can also ex smoke the cross over to get some spacing. When doing this you can sometimes get them with a smoke bomb if they are inputting a block string with the crossover jip.
5. You can also telepunch the crossover attempts. Input the telepunch before they switch sides and it hits pretty much everytime. Except of course when the jip somehow wins against the telepunch, but even that is not too bad since it knocks you down and ends the pressure.

There is no magic way to stop the crossover pressure though you just have to get used to how to combat it and escape it.

 

[smokey]

1. Dashing pokes are great for laying on pressure, and as smoke has no low combo starters to convince your opponent to block low (and eat your overhead full combo) you have to abuse pokes, like you never have before. D1>D3>D4 is a great poke string, the speed of D1 followed by the pushback range of D4 puts you in a great position to B2 overhead them. Just get used to playing your poking game fast paced, but know when you need to get out, check your oponents meter, if they have xray or armoured moves they arent likely to fall into your pressure game. Drifting back is good, and smoke bomb pressure from drifts makes your oponent think twice about how they chase you down.

2. Crossover pressure can be beaten on reaction (hard however, you need to practice this though because crossover pressure is a great way of shutting down smoke!). You can use either EX Shake (Reverse input OR b,f,b,1). EX Drift has invincibility on it so you might get away with that, but dont rely on it because it has a nasty habit of getting punched out of, but thats just MK9 for you i guess. Another option is to B4 sweep as they fall onto you, your lowered hitbox can avoid cross punches with ease, however following up you should try to either poke with D1 to stop another jump out attempt, do a Jump back kick to get out and also cover the air a bit, or you can whiffed TP if they try to cross you up again, as this will usually take them out of the air. Unfortunately smokes crossup defense is hard to execute and does require you to think on the spot a bit, but with practice you should start to see the best ways out.

3.Tele whiff is a great move, aslong as you dont become predictable or overuse it. I save it for when i predict a safe movement out, if your opponent is dash blocking your smoke bombs for example, they are usually too preoccupied to see it coming as they are busy not getting smoke bombed. I like to use either D3 or D4 after a tele whiff, or just straight blocking to see what happens before you make a move, but pre-plan your tele whiffs, theres no use in just teleporting yourself into johhny cage or jax, when all you are going to see is damage falling away from your health bar.

4.Enhanced Shake. Successfully using this will make your opponent think twice when pressuring you. Also on wake-up if you are being continuously pressured then this can shut that down. Without meter, a drift forward or backward, coupled with wake-up invincibility is good for getting out of the corner, and gaining some much needed distance when you are being laid down by pressure. Also using your cancel off of EX Shake is great for later in the match, or if you fear you are becoming predictable with it. Fire one off when your opponent is coming in from jump to sweep range, their reaction is to stop blank, use this split second to Uf,UF cancel out of it into a punch, reversing the pressure in your favour.

5. Smokes long range game is all about your opponent. Using smoke bombs, drifts and invisibility from distance to force reactions and build meter. Any attempts to counter zone can be Shaken. Most smokes see this as a good thing however you need to analyse your situation before you go shaking everything. You going to put yourself in melee range of your opponent who has full meter while you have none? I dont think so. Watch yourself and the game and play smart. You CAN use the invincibility on drift & EX drift to avoid projectiles, however this is iffy. Depends on the speed + Amount of the projectiles and how good you time it. For example Kano knifes move fast and have a small hitbox on them, so you should be alright, but something like Skarlets daggers, they come out 2 at a time with a break in between, so chances are your invincible window wont cover this!

Hope all this info helps, i like to keep packing the smoke forum with walls of text instead of just "use shake l0lz" as it really is beneficial to people.

Also hopefully a mod can merge this with the questions thread so that we have a big compilation of information instead of loads of seperate threads!.

 

[xenogorgeous]

After someone said that Smoke might could be a S tier character, I started to pay more attention on him, and, in fact, he is a very good character, maybe a little underrated in tourneys, but, he is powerful, if played smartly ....

I think that him and Raiden are the 2 most hard difficult characters to be "zoned" by all the rest of MK9 roster, maybe Smoke could be the number 1 spot as best "anti-zoner" character ..... I think Smoke has a great chance to be a character in the finals of some future tourney, or even winning one.

I like Smoke very much in this game,since he has personality and his own moves, and is not anymore a "copycat" clone from Scorpion, so, I hope Smoke develops more fan base, he is a great character in MK9. I think his gameplay capacity is a bit "underestimated" in MK9 ....

 

[G4S KT]

Dashing Pokes: now im really not doing this right i see smoke players dash they d"+1 and into smoke ball..is there some sort of shortcut or are these peoples inputs just really fast?

Crossover Pressure: sometimes i just get caught with some1 beating me down by simply jumping over and neutral punching there any good way to punish them?

Tele Whiff: is this actually a good tech? when are the right or wrong times to do it?

returning pressure: whats the best way to make i guess a comeback with smoke? to really lay tht pressure down..since he doesnt have a meterless reset is there something to avoid wakeups and beat em dow

Long range game: smoke ball has no chip =[ which really hurts at a range cause it doesnt help give a life lead..what do u usually do from across the screen?

well thts all i can think of i may come up with more later but if u can answer thtd be great! Thanks!

good answers from [MENTION=5794]FrothyOmen[/MENTION].

Keep in mind that you can only 2 in 1 specials out of most moves on hit or block.

In other words, you have to make some sort of contact with your opponent.

This includes 2 in 1-ing smoke bomb out of d1. If the move whiffs, the special won't come out.


As far as defending against cross ups goes, Smoke has several options but none of them are particularly strong:

-EX shake is guaranteed but costs meter
-a well timed d3 will avoid a cross up punch (the timing for this isn't that tight; it's pretty much 100% against CUPs once you get used to it)
-a very well timed d1 will get you a combo (risky. I still can't really do this consistently so I don't try to)
-NJP will get you a combo. (I'm trying to NJP more often. it's a pretty reliable tactic)
-IJK to AT works too, but to do it on reaction you gotta be quick

Keep in mind that many people say to just try and jump out so you get hit out of the air, claiming that "it's better because they won't get the full combo". This isn't necessarily true. Many characters can take advantage of this and do big dashing 1 combos on reaction to it.

If they cross up over a whiffed move, unless it's standing 1 or 2, or d1/d3/d4 you're basically fucked.

If it is one of those moves you have two options

-block
-EX shake

that's pretty much it.

air TP whiffing is only good for baiting punishable AA moves.

ground TP whiffing is good for staying on opponents after a combo.

[MENTION=4641]BeerGuyEd[/MENTION] TP against cross ups can work but it's risky. If it misses the jip WON'T knock you to the ground; it counts as you standing and you get combo'd.

Smoke can't really lay down pressure like many characters in this game can, so you have to keep moving, use spacing to your advantage, and be creative with set ups.

 

[arydious]

I either NJP a cross up, and follow it with 3d12 32 f4 EX SB
Or
I do a dash step back and land 214 anti air, this oen is a lot harder but its pretty damn consistent if you dont get jittery, the only bad thing is if they learn and start jump kicking your ass lol

 

[BenGmanUk]

If I block a sb and smoke throws a d1, how many frames do I have to beat your d1?

 

[OZombiePenguinO]

If I block a sb and smoke throws a d1, how many frames do I have to beat your d1?

Enough for your own, that's for sure

 

[Creepy00]

hmmm if you guys would have to grade the level of difficulty to play a decent and an advance smoke what would be low-mid to high-mid Lv difficulty? I m planning in picking up smoke as he and cyber sub are the two lui kuie characters that i have no experience with.

 

[G4S KT]

If I block a sb and smoke throws a d1, how many frames do I have to beat your d1?

Smoke bomb on block is somewhere between -7 and -11

hmmm if you guys would have to grade the level of difficulty to play a decent and an advance smoke what would be low-mid to high-mid Lv difficulty? I m planning in picking up smoke as he and cyber sub are the two lui kuie characters that i have no experience with.

You mean how hard it is to get a good Smoke? Smoke isn't very execution heavy but he relies heavily on good spacing, good reads, and smart set ups so becoming dangerous with him could take a while.

Unless, your opponent doesn't know the match up. If that's the case you'll likely be catching them with random smoke bombs for full combos on the regular.

 

[Apock]

smokebomb on block is -9

 

[AHmada0]

Does smoke have an anti-air?

I think every character has an anti-air special attack and otherwise they could use the standing 1 if they back up a lil bit as an anti-air, which is great against people who just constantly keep jumping towards you. So I started playing smoke cause i really don't have the patience to fight zoners, but I've noticed that when people get up close jumping I can't do anything else but block and take the chip damage.
You guys got any advice on beating jumping punches with smoke? Can smoke also use a standing 1 as an anti-air? Hasn't worked for me yet.

And also what is the best follow up if you jump punch someone out of the air?

 

[Slego]

Standing 2 is an amazing ant-air with a deceptively big hit box, chain one or two d1s into a smoke bomb after for a kombo.

After an Air to air punch, you can smoke bomb them with the right timing, or a dash 2->d1 bomb if you're savvy.

 

[FrothyOmen]

^this.

also, Ask Smoke Thread.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

You guys got any advice on beating jumping punches with smoke?

-Standing 2, followed by D1 smoke bomb.
-D1, followed by D1 smoke bomb.
-Telepunch with precise timing.
-EX Shake with precise timing.
-Walk backwards and B2 3 smoke bomb.
-Walk backwards and use his super fast sweep.

And also what is the best follow up if you jump punch someone out of the air?

Blank Smoke Bomb. This requires good timing and SOME luck.

You can also B2 3 Telepunch for like 13-15% damage (depending on whether the second hit of telepunch whiffs or not). It's also possible to replace the telepunch with a smoke bomb, but that doesn't work very often.

 

[McNasty]

I like to do standing 2 dash forward 214 smoke bomb 32 JK airthrow timing is semi strict but is about 28-30%

 

[DirtyBalls]

standing 2 is very good AA. It's even useful online lol. simple combo is 2, 2, d1 smoke bomb.

 

[G4S KT]

also, Ask Smoke Thread.

+1

thread moved.

 

[NariTuba]

Hey I have a question:

Watching the ghetto smoke resets that dont work with OTG smoke bomb i thought that maybe this can be used to remove the opponents wakeup. Lets say if you finish a combo with a normal that leaves them right next to you (d1 maybe?) linked to a SB. Would this work?

 

[G4S KT]

Hey I have a question:

Watching the ghetto smoke resets that dont work with OTG smoke bomb i thought that maybe this can be used to remove the opponents wakeup. Lets say if you finish a combo with a normal that leaves them right next to you (d1 maybe?) linked to a SB. Would this work?

it does work. there was a period of time where I was doing the OTG bomb for the express purpose of denying wake ups, but I decided that it isn't a good idea because it puts you at disadvantage.

 

[Enenra]

How is Smoke supposed to be played? I really have no idea if he is zoning, pressure/rushdown, etc. Some one please shed some light on this.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

How is Smoke supposed to be played? I really have no idea if he is zoning, pressure/rushdown, etc. Some one please shed some light on this.

Well, he's not a zoning character, as his projectiles do no chip, and he can't do anything fullscreen to damage his opponent. He's the ultimate anti-zoner and punisher in the game. That's what he's best at: punishing. But Smoke can be played in various ways.

People say I play a runaway Smoke since I keep distance a lot, bait, punish, and rely on a lot of tricks that allow me to pressure opponents after countering anything. On the other hand, Smokes like Anti Static's are rushdown orientated; he's on your face a lot.

There's no right way of playing Smoke, and that's what I love about the character. You really have to develop your own style. If you're a rushdown player, then by all means, you can have a rushdown Smoke.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Well, he's not a zoning character, as his projectiles do no chip, and he can't do anything fullscreen to damage his opponent. He's the ultimate anti-zoner and punisher in the game. That's what he's best at: punishing. But Smoke can be played in various ways.

People say I play a runaway Smoke since I keep distance a lot, bait, punish, and rely on a lot of tricks that allow me to pressure opponents after countering anything. On the other hand, Smokes like Anti Static's are rushdown orientated; he's on your face a lot.

There's no right way of playing Smoke, and that's what I love about the character. You really have to develop your own style. If you're a rushdown player, then by all means, you can have a rushdown Smoke.

You watched the stream last night right?

I'm pretty sure you saw me fail with Smoke against Mileena. If you remember, what can I do to get better?