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Question re: downplay

xKMMx

xKMMx

Banned
lordlosh said:
Sorry but our definition for OP/Broken is completely different.



Broken doesnt mean this. Go check the definition. :D
Click to expand...
RIght. Mine is accurate. Yours is not.

My definition for broken. Is broken.

Your definition for broken is OP. They are different things bro.

I wont bother to give you the breakdown again cause it didn't get through the last time.

But.... for something to be broken means it literally breaks the game rendering all other options in the game useless against that tactic.
 
Agilaz

Agilaz

It has begun
I thought this was a general downplay thread but I guess it's a Lewy Man thread.

Personally I don't think he's broken, but his kit is just so needlessly overloaded. Recap:

- fast, advancing +3 on block, easily hitconfirmable highs. Yes they're highs but good luck reacting accordingly, because...

- TWO 9f mids that lead to his BnBs. Why?

- B1 which is a god tier stagger

- F4 blender. Yes his options are punishable or at the very least the end of his turn, but the shear amount of them means the defender is always at risk, more than the attacker.

- good zoning, counterzoning. Low, low high, high, triple high and air fireballs. Whyyyy

-one of the best reversals in the game with dragon kick

- a parry. Why does he need this too? Granted its a risk, but you really only need do it once vs wakeup and thats half a lifebar that just vanishes

- great FB starting hit, second only to Jax's imo

- KB's on both throws, on F43u3 (on punish/ch for the ENTIRE STRING, not just the last hit),
one loadable w/ bike kick, one with dragon kick, the scary one on the parry..so much damage that's just excess because:

- considering all his options, he still gets an easy 200+ per bnb, and everything gets him good oki. Alternatively, opt for less damage and in return save your meter and get a + restand

- all of the above, wrapped in a nice jacket of "no execution required beyond the absolute basic function of your fingers". This character is just so ridiculously easy to play. I havent even labbed him, yet I can morph into Liu with Shang and do the exact same shit they're doing, often to great effect.

So yeah. Def not broken, but needlessly overloaded. He could certainly use a bit of toning down, even if its just for the sake of public perception cause im so fucking bored of this MU by now. And since I insist on torturing myself with Kombat League, this MU is like, 65% of my experience
 
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xKMMx

xKMMx

Banned
Yep that is accurate and its just the state of the game. I honestly would rather play against LK these days than Jade. SHe is just annoying AF!!!
 
F

FonicSox

Mortal
Agilaz said:
I thought this was a general downplay thread but I guess it's a Lewy Man thread.

Personally I don't think he's broken, but his kit is just so needlessly overloaded. Recap:

- fast, advancing +3 on block, easily hitconfirmable highs. Yes they're highs but good luck reacting accordingly, because...

- TWO 9f mids that lead to his BnBs. Why?

- B1 which is a god tier stagger

- F4 blender. Yes his options are punishable or at the very least the end of his turn, but the shear amount of them means the defender is always at risk, more than the attacker.

- good zoning, counterzoning. Low, low high, high, triple high and air fireballs. Whyyyy

-one of the best reversals in the game with dragon kick

- a parry. Why does he need this too? Granted its a risk, but you really only need do it once vs wakeup and thats half a lifebar that just vanishes

- great FB starting hit, second only to Jax's imo

- KB's on both throws, on F43u3 (on punish/ch for the ENTIRE STRING, not just the last hit),
one loadable w/ bike kick, one with dragon kick, the scary one on the parry..so much damage that's just excess because:

- considering all his options, he still gets an easy 200+ per bnb, and everything gets him good oki. Alternatively, opt for less damage and in return save your meter and get a + restand

- all of the above, wrapped in a nice jacket of "no execution required beyond the absolute basic function of your fingers". This character is just so ridiculously easy to play. I havent even labbed him, yet I can morph into Liu with Shang and do the exact same shit they're doing, often to great effect.

So yeah. Def not broken, but needlessly overloaded. He could certainly use a bit of toning down, even if its just for the sake of public perception cause im so fucking bored of this MU by now. And since I insist on torturing myself with Kombat League, this MU is like, 65% of my experience
Click to expand...
Good post. I agree. We haven't seen anything in this game up til now that should be labeled "broken." Save that shit for the likes of release Tanya, Alien, launch Abigail from SFV and so on.

These characters dropped and half the recognizable high level tournament player base INSTANTLY abandoned their prior mains because not using something so strong meant you were going to get stomped by everyone else using it.

That said, I don't think any other character in this game's span thus far has been in so obvious need of tweaking. I honestly miss playing against season 1 Erron and Sonya at this point.
 
L

lordlosh

Apprentice
Hellbringer said:
So what is your definition of broken?

edit: and dont give me a smartass comment like "liu kang", im honestly asking
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What Liu Kang was in MKXL at one point and till the end. I would said Alien(Acidic) in MK10 at one point as well was fr** s*.

Everyone have their understanding and i dont have problem with that. My problem is when someone is trying to imposed his opinion.
I never said im right and the other person is wrong i just give me perception.

For me broken is where at similar/equal level, one guy has to do 20% in terms to win, and the other one needs to 180% more efforts in terms to win.
Where it has tools, that simply is uncounterable or lets said you simply going to eat this moves.

I want goes through all of his strengths again, but i will just mention his raw High DMG KBs and that whatever you do, their going to land one way or another, and the bout is just not fair. Its uphill battle from the begining.

There is a big difference between strong character and broken one.
Cassie and Sonya(through a lot of people were saying she is broken) for example.
Cassie was solid, but she doesnt have such strong and fast mids. She wasnt making you guessing and stealing turns after turn. And what is more important, she doesnt have full screen anti-zoning ability, as well she has 1 viable KB and her FB suc***.
She has drawbacks and has not so good matchups.

Everytime i see Johnny Cage and then look at Liu Kang, and i just cant imagine the same people make them. Its like characters from different games.
How is that proper balance.
Liu is like upgraded version of Johnny Cage.

Johnny - no KBs, sh*** FB, only high projectile
Kang - best FB, best KBs, low, low high, high, 3x high, air projectiles, and on top of that full screen anti-zoning ability. And the picture get more grim, when you understand that he is a f* pressure character, that destroys you in close.
 
V

VELL1

Noob
FonicSox said:
What's the scale of that assessment? Do we also apply it to Foxy, Sonic and Dragon? Also, how did you come to that conclusion?
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Dude, do you just comment for the sake of commenting?? I Literally said, that super high level of play isdifferent. But if you are anywhere below Elder-God level, it's not an issue.
 
F

FonicSox

Mortal
VELL1 said:
Dude, do you just comment for the sake of commenting?? I Literally said, that super high level of play isdifferent. But if you are anywhere below Elder-God level, it's not an issue.
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I was replying to your quoted comment which was made in isolation and didn't have that context you added in. You may have said that elsewhere in this thread, but I'm not exactly following your history.

"If you're below Elder God Liu Kang shouldn't be an issue" doesn't make sense. Liu Kang is incontestably overpowered, and also happens to be one of the easiest characters in the game to pick up and play (next to... Baraka?). There's no barrier to entry in putting his superior toolset to use.

That mentality falls under the people that say "tiers don't matter outside top level play!" which is actually just incorrect in all facets.
 
Parasurama

Parasurama

Dragon
FonicSox said:
I was replying to your quoted comment which was made in isolation and didn't have that context you added in. You may have said that elsewhere in this thread, but I'm not exactly following your history.

"If you're below Elder God Liu Kang shouldn't be an issue" doesn't make sense. Liu Kang is incontestably overpowered, and also happens to be one of the easiest characters in the game to pick up and play (next to... Baraka?). There's no barrier to entry in putting his superior toolset to use.

That mentality falls under the people that say "tiers don't matter outside top level play!" which is actually just incorrect in all facets.
Click to expand...
Liu Kang is very strong, high or top tier. However overpowered or broken should not describe this otherwise it is like when a really over powered character shows up- it loses all meaning. Also he was mildly nerfed in the last patch otherwise he is the same as from the beginning of the game and if he was that broken- people would have been crying already (long ago) when they were complaining about Scorpion or Cassie who did not really need nerfs anyway. If Liu kang is top tier and gets changed then it is what it is but using words such as ‘broken’ or ‘OP’ when he was considered high or upper mid tier with better frame data makes little sense and this is an example of up play.
Hitboxes/Hurtboxes in characters like some females Johnny Cage Liu Kang Geras etc are broken and needs fixing.
 
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