Turning Liu Kangs F43xx Tools Against Him (Short Guide)

[lordlosh]

LawAbidingCitizen, so you are his lawyer? And yeah he is downplaying him big time and he is doing this for long, long time.
You can just click on his profile and check his profile post and thread post and its obvious from the plane how he is downplaying him.
You are doing the same. And you are making a fun of yourself by putting Sub Zero and Liu Kang in comparison in one sentence.
Didnt read the rest of your post, because you are writing the same thing over and over again.

And no one ever said other character doesnt have option, but there isnt any other move in the game that have 3823487548265462 option after the initial string.

Words are usless:

2 f* KB on his, not one, but 2. And let see how hard is to land on this KBs. O dear Rewind land both his throw KB in 1 round .....
Free round win.
And how the second set started? How of course with another KB throw.
Where is the Liu Kang defender to go explain to one of the good Jonny Cage players in the game how to neutral dick to avoid this Kbs?
But lets continue to breakdown the round. Of course they both go to FB zone and of course Liu Kang won the round with the FB.
Rewind drop a round, and then hop another KB F43U3 of course, down goes your health. Let me outzone you a bit with my imba zoning.
But yeah Liu is not Op, no of course not.

 

[Hellbringer]

he can keep his 489032843908439 options after F4 so all liu kang players don't commit hara kiri.

in the game that have 3823487548265462 option after the initial string.

Same account?

 

[Kanalratte]

Just curious, do you think your opponents have to guess between Subs Overhead/Low and his Staggers and frame traps?

yes they do. unless you are the sonic fox and can react to his overhead. but what has this to do with liu kang? just because i have a Sub Zero avatar? i don't play him at all. i think he's also braindead once he hits you and it's 50/50 time.

 

[Kanalratte]

Same account?

i don't need "ambush" accounts to post here on TYM just because we have the same opinion doesn't mean it's the same account

 

[lordlosh]

51:00
After that match if anyone come to defend Liu and downplay, it will be ridiculous.

Now pls the 2 or 3 defenders here, come explain me how i cant play this match up and how hard is for Liu Kang to condition his opponent and to get his KB ready to go when he need and land 3-4-5 of his insanely easy KB every single set.
The final set was fu* joke. Rewind won the whole set with KBs alone.

 

[kcd117]

they ignored the OS that beats the F43xx options.

I really don’t think anyone has huge problems with the F43 mindgame at a mid to high level.

The big problem I have with Liu Kang is that everything he does is a straight up 50/50 stagger. You either commit to take your turn back and risk your life for it or you keep getting pressured forever. The only time you’ll ever see this character effectively lose his turn is after you block an amplified low fireball, shaolin stance, flying kick or bike kick lol.

I play characters with good stagger game but no one comes close to what Liu has. Jacqui and Jax are the only characters that come to mind but they don’t have it on everything (despite also being dumb in their own way).

Yall are like “read this read that reads are reads reads are in every fighting game” like hell yeah! They are! But I don’t think you understand the fact that you are not simply reading a grab or a jump in... you are reading to get a chance to play the game every time he touches you! And you are not reading once and that is it.... you are reading, 2,3,4,5 times in a row.

I think you are completely missing the point which is not the mindgames themselves, but the fact that half of the shit this character has shouldn’t be a mindgame in the first place. And I think kindred is just not aware of how strong his character is and that reads are simply educated guesses so I gave up trying to explain anything to him.

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

Again.... Are we STILL on this?
The character has 3 good strings: 12 (high) and 2 mids. He has less than average reach and only does high damage in the corner.
He has a good fb but that's nothing special. Yes he has KBs on both throws and just above average "zoning". When playing baraka, cetrion, Skarlet, Sonya, Kabal, Erron and god knows how many others he CAN get outzoned.
And for the people Who Will reference the ninjakilla vs scar matches, may I remind you that this Liu is Ninja Killa's Liu. Not the average Kombat League Liu that most of the people here moan and rant about.. . Let's be serious here. We cannot be hatefull against random lius on-line and ragequit/teabag because the character "carries" them but when you come across Ninja or silverye then be polite because they are godlike pros. If you struggle against one character that is being used 80-85 per cent of the time by random, your reactions and reads are the problems, not ONE single string. And Let's be serious here once again... After raging against that Last Liu match-up, you are probably the guy that Will Again rage against the next match vs whomever you're up against. The difference is that Liu is "in fashion" that Last month or so... So thanks for filling TYM with convos about my favourite video game character since 1992. Rage on!

 

[lordlosh]

Another Liu Kang player trying to downplay him, thats so cute.
And btw Rewind just beat Dragon, who is Cetrion and avoid zoning against Liu Kang ahahahhahah. Thats tell you the whole story how broken that character is.
Its good to say so far Rewind have only L to Dragon in the last majors, but he wasnt maining Liu Kang there. What a coincidence ...

 

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

If guessing is what you think you must be doing to win, then they can nerf LK to the ground, you're still going to get blown up

I've made it to God tier on both xbox and ps4 using only Shao Kahn in both seasons thus far. The idea that pointing out that something is dumb somehow means I can't win against it, is such a weak argument lol. This is the same type of argument that Scorpion players were using before they nerfed the teleport.

I just wish people would admit they want to keep their crutches. Instead, you'll just point to practice videos that don't show the layers and all of the pieces being put together (fast frames, mids, mix, zoning, kbs). Or you'll say, "make the read". Making a read is simply making an educated GUESS. There's really only two categories of decision making in these situations: Guessing (straight up guessing or educated guess) or reacting. So repeat this with me: "A read is an educated guess".

 

[SaSSolino]

Kindred

Kindred has never down played Liu Kang. He has said Liu is very strong multiple times. Its these two clowns acting like they lose because of guess factor when every character has mix: frame traps, number of hit, some have 50/50's, staggers and Shimmy which all create "Guess"
I call it reads because I make most not all of those situations more favorable by observing my opponents patterns and making reads based off that.

These people are acting like only liu has multiple options that force guess, its absurd. There issue isn't with the character its with the meta (Strike Throw).

All he did was simply state you can make reads which help your risk vs reward. This is important because they said above liu kang can win alone with only F43 mix which is absurd. Might be worth mentioning they ignored the OS that beats the F43xx options.

Hey man, I didn't even notice there was a discussion taking place. I'm just saying that literally every Liu Kang thread and even most profile statuses mentioning the character have multiple Kindred replies in it.

It's getting old.

 

[Kindred]

I've made it to God tier on both xbox and ps4 using only Shao Kahn in both seasons thus far. The idea that pointing out that something is dumb somehow means I can't win against it, is such a weak argument lol. This is the same type of argument that Scorpion players were using before they nerfed the teleport.

I just wish people would admit they want to keep their crutches. Instead, you'll just point to practice videos that don't show the layers and all of the pieces being put together (fast frames, mids, mix, zoning, kbs). Or you'll say, "make the read". Making a read is simply making an educated GUESS. There's really only two categories of decision making in these situations: Guessing (straight up guessing or educated guess) or reacting. So repeat this with me: "A read is an educated guess".

Ive always said it. A read is an educated guess. Big difference than a regular guess. People bitch about LK because they say he has so many options that you have to guess and that's inaccurate since you should be doing an educated guess based on previous patterns. When you have that in mind, hes not impossible to deal with at all. Educated guesses are the basis of fighting games.

@SaSSolino , annnnnd.... lol This is a forum to discuss the game. Obviously im more likely to post on stuff pertaining to characters Im familiar with

 

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

When you have that in mind, hes not impossible to deal with at all.

No one is arguing that he's impossible to deal with. The argument is that he has too much going for him that result in massive damage if you guess wrong or if you don't have split second reactions. Plus frames, throw kbs, kounter kbs, full screen flying kick kb, bicycle kick kb, low projectile, mix and fast mids. The problem isn't just guessing, it's that you will constantly have to keep guessing with huge risk to stop it. All LK has to do is block your poke, and you are right back in the blender. But this argument can go back and forth for ages. Can you please just post some video footage of you playing Kombat League against high level Liu Kangs? I don't want to see anymore practice mode videos. I learn by seeing things in action, not in theory.

 

[Kanalratte]

i've just watched the rewind vs dragon match. aquaman: "he does 2 things: D1 and F4" anyone seen the shang vs sonya match? "we saw a combo!!" i lol'ed this was so awful to watch. "pew pew pew" the whole match and this was high level play. i'm glad i've stopped playing this game. maybe come back for Terminator. until then i just hope they balance the game the right way.

Can you please just post some video footage of you playing Kombat League against high level Liu Kangs? I don't want to see anymore practice mode videos. I learn by seeing things in action, not in theory.

agree. big difference if you are in practice mode or having a real match against a very good opponent.

 

[lordlosh]

No one is arguing that he's impossible to deal with. The argument is that he has too much going for him that result in massive damage if you guess wrong or if you don't have split second reactions. Plus frames, throw kbs, kounter kbs, full screen flying kick kb, bicycle kick kb, low projectile, mix and fast mids. The problem isn't just guessing, it's that you will constantly have to keep guessing with huge risk to stop it. All LK has to do is block your poke, and you are right back in the blender. But this argument can go back and forth for ages. Can you please just post some video footage of you playing Kombat League against high level Liu Kangs? I don't want to see anymore practice mode videos. I learn by seeing things in action, not in theory.

He is a Liu Kang player, what video you want him to post? A mirror match ?

The video i post in this page say it all. Rewind simply won the whole set against Dragon with his KBs. One after another.
And this guy was saying Liu Kang Kbs was not easy to be set.
Look at the previous match against the Jonny Cage player as well. What is the point of draining his health, when he is going to touch you 2 time and steal the round.
There isnt a character that steal more rounds than Liu Kang in this game.
Exactly what Magician said like 2 weeks ago.
Magician:

Why the fk is Liu a f*ing character. Everytime im playing KL, a Liu just comes to mess it up. Liu is broken especially with how much damage he does and when you get close to killing him you are the one who dies. Seriously either nerf him as much as Erron or just remove him.

Liu Kang is all arround character that have all the tools in the game and he can even outzone a "pure zoner" characters, but what really pisses me off is the comeback power of this character.
Super strong strings with great mixup potential, best turn stealer, great pressure, best zoner for mixed character, one of the best if not the best KBs and FBs.

 

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

He is a Liu Kang player, what video you want him to post? :A mirror match ?

Good point. Non-mirror match footage please.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Hey man, I didn't even notice there was a discussion taking place. I'm just saying that literally every Liu Kang thread and even most profile statuses mentioning the character have multiple Kindred replies in it.

It's getting old.

Why does it bother you that a character loyalist posts in his characters threads?

 

[kcd117]

He is a Liu Kang player, what video you want him to post? A mirror match ?

The video i post in this page say it all. Rewind simply won the whole set against Dragon with his KBs. One after another.
And this guy was saying Liu Kang Kbs was not easy to be set.
Look at the previous match against the Jonny Cage player as well. What is the point of draining his health, when he is going to touch you 2 time and steal the round.
There isnt a character that steal more rounds than Liu Kang in this game.
Exactly what Magician said like 2 weeks ago.
Magician:


Liu Kang is all arround character that have all the tools in the game and he can even outzone a "pure zoner" characters, but what really pisses me off is the comeback power of this character.
Super strong strings with great mixup potential, best turn stealer, great pressure, best zoner for mixed character, one of the best if not the best KBs and FBs.

Mantis also followed his “don’t try to tech the grabs” game changing tech. Too bad he got completely outplayed by in the throw loops.

 

[SaSSolino]

Why does it bother you that a character loyalist posts in his characters threads?

For starters because I remember him saying he wasn't even a Liu Kang player the first time I spoke with the guy, meaning he lied to give more weight to his downplaying.

Mostly though it's just annoying when someone tells you the same thing 45 times.

Like if someone creates a salty profile post about Kang's f4 saying some bullshit, let him, he'll calm down soon enough anyway. There's no need to go there and start another argument that looks the exact same as the last one.

 

[lordlosh]

LawAbidingCitizen, probably because he is speaking nonsenses and it was lying at first so he downplay Liu big time.
Probably because he disappear big time, when i post the above 2 videos.

When i was saying that Liu have easy time conditioning his KBs, he said this to me and the "kcd117" this;

Just because you get easily conditioned, doesnt mean everyone does. The problem isnt Liu, it's you.

It sounds to me like you get conditioned pretty easily. If you are constantly scared to press buttons from the fear of the KB, that's completely on you bro. That tells me you arent seeing a pattern in your opponent, you're passive as fuck and you're scared to press buttons. ...you're getting outplayed.

How dumb that is, when i say from the very begining that i speak about high-pro level gameplay.

51:10
The fight against Bio

Can you count in this 3 matches how many rounds Liu simply steal and how KBs he landed? How braindead this character is.
This is a pretty much uphill battle. You are putting tremendous effort, just to find yourself dead thanks to his mindless easy KBs.
And this guy trying to downplay him by saying its easy to not allow him to condition his Kbs. Sorry, but this is a complete joke.

You dont need much skill to condition his KBs. His throw KBs are easy to get conditin. His F43U3 KB its KB that land 110% of every set you play.
His Bicycle Kick is the cherry of the cake, you need to connect 2 combo and that move is set to win you the decisive game.
And we add his FB that is mind-blowing and its landing on will for 40% dmg and the only way to win against this character is to totally outplay him or to be like 1 or 2 levels above the Liu Kang player.

With all due respect to Rewind and i like this guy a lot, esp. in INJ2, untill he switched to Liu Kang he was bang average.
He switched and bang, he won 2 tournament and now he is in the winners of top 8 in a Major, and beat Dragon for first time this year i think. Dragon beats him in 2 majors this year so far and is the second best player to date in MK11.
This speaks for itself.

 

[Parasurama]

LawAbidingCitizen, probably because he is speaking nonsenses and it was lying at first so he downplay Liu big time.
Probably because he disappear big time, when i post the above 2 videos.

When i was saying that Liu have easy time conditioning his KBs, he said this to me and the "kcd117" this;



How dumb that is, when i say from the very begining that i speak about high-pro level gameplay.

51:10
The fight against Bio

Can you count in this 3 matches how many rounds Liu simply steal and how KBs he landed? How braindead this character is.
This is a pretty much uphill battle. You are putting tremendous effort, just to find yourself dead thanks to his mindless easy KBs.
And this guy trying to downplay him by saying its easy to not allow him to condition his Kbs. Sorry, but this is a complete joke.

You dont need much skill to condition his KBs. His throw KBs are easy to get conditin. His F43U3 KB its KB that land 110% of every set you play.
His Bicycle Kick is the cherry of the cake, you need to connect 2 combo and that move is set to win you the decisive game.
And we add his FB that is mind-blowing and its landing on will for 40% dmg and the only way to win against this character is to totally outplay him or to be like 1 or 2 levels above the Liu Kang player.

With all due respect to Rewind and i like this guy a lot, esp. in INJ2, untill he switched to Liu Kang he was bang average.
He switched and bang, he won 2 tournament and now he is in the winners of top 8 in a Major, and beat Dragon for first time this year i think. Dragon beats him in 2 majors this year so far and is the second best player to date in MK11.
This speaks for itself.

A few things need to be understood to put your last post in context:
Rewind is not an average player and has been searching for a main.
Liu Kang is almost the same character post patch and the variation Rewind plays is slightly nerfed
Rewind is the only Liu Kang user in the Top 8 in a tournament with various Liu Kang mains.

Ok you can carry on.

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

A few things are need to be understood to put your last post in context:
Rewind is not an average player and has been searching for a main.
Liu Kang is almost the same character post patch and the variation Rewind plays is slightly nerfed
Rewind is the only Liu Kang user in the Top 8 in a tournament with various Liu Kang mains.

Ok you can carry on.

Thank you

 

[lordlosh]

A few things are need to be understood to put your last post in context:
Rewind is not an average player and has been searching for a main.
Liu Kang is almost the same character post patch and the variation Rewind plays is slightly nerfed
Rewind is the only Liu Kang user in the Top 8 in a tournament with various Liu Kang mains.

Ok you can carry on.

Comes down MK11 Rewind result before switching to Liu Kang was a bang average. He was not even close to come to top 8 in a major, and he is top 8 in a winners right now.
He wasnt using Liu Kang before the patch, you know this ? He used Jax and Jacqui and so on.
The moment he start using Liu Kang he won 2 tournament, 1 was local, the other was Online Cup - NA WEST. And now top 8 in the winners in a major.
And the first tournament he won, top 3 was all Liu Kang player. Try to downplay him more pls wow.
And what exactly nerfs Liu Kang recieve from the patch? Lets all laugh at them.
And you realize other top characters was nerfed big time, so that mean the character that went untouched will do better ?

As far as Liu Kang players, Liu was probably the most used character in the tournament.
And lets not forget the other 2 top Liu Kang players are not participate - Ninjakilla and SylverRye.
SylverRye is participate in other tournament i think and he is in top 8 there.

Nice try, but not going to happen.

 

[Hellbringer]

Comes down MK11 Rewind result before switching to Liu Kang was a bang average. He was not even close to come to top 8 in a major, and he is top 8 in a winners right now.
He wasnt using Liu Kang before the patch, you know this ? He used Jax and Jacqui and so on.
The moment he start using Liu Kang he won 2 tournament, 1 was local, the other was Online Cup - NA WEST. And now top 8 in the winners in a major.
And the first tournament he won, top 3 was all Liu Kang player. Try to downplay him more pls wow.
And what exactly nerfs Liu Kang recieve from the patch? Lets all laugh at them.
And you realize other top characters was nerfed big time, so that mean the character that went untouched will do better ?

As far as Liu Kang players, Liu was probably the most used character in the tournament.
And lets not forget the other 2 top Liu Kang players are not participate - Ninjakilla and SylverRye.
SylverRye is participate in other tournament i think and he is in top 8 there.

Nice try, but not going to happen.

So your basically saying rewind only won because of his character? such disrespect smh

 

[lordlosh]

Where i said that man? Is this the main reason for his result lately? Maybe. But he obviously improve, as this could happen to anyone.
The Pro Tour stage start with a SonicFox won a major, after that Scar won the Combo Breaker and from that on Scar is on decline big time.
This could tells you that one player can improve, other can decline, people understand the game and characters more, because this is still a fresh young game.
But the bum of Liu Kang players online and in tournament is not a coincidence.
That being said can Liu Kang be beaten - Yes of course. He can be both outsmarted and outplayed so a top Liu Kang player can be beaten of course.
But this character compare to the rest right now have some big shortcuts.
I wouldnt be so mad about it, if the character was hard to play and required really great skill to shine, but Liu is hand down the most stupid and easy character out there.
If they made DVorah so strong for example i wouldnt be mad about it, because she is tricky to play and require skill to use at high level.

Cassie pre-patch(and probably now) was a solid character, but atleast her FB sucked, as well as her KBs. She kad like 1 useful KB on high level gameplay, where it was "solo" move with not much damage on it.
And Liu now for example have everything, and you can totally outplay him and he still can win by his imba FB and high dmg easy to set KBs.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

For starters because I remember him saying he wasn't even a Liu Kang player the first time I spoke with the guy, meaning he lied to give more weight to his downplaying.

Mostly though it's just annoying when someone tells you the same thing 45 times.

Like if someone creates a salty profile post about Kang's f4 saying some bullshit, let him, he'll calm down soon enough anyway. There's no need to go there and start another argument that looks the exact same as the last one.

WHen I started playing sets with him he used Liu Kang and Frost and was very good with both. But I know before he used Frost only so its entirely possible he was telling the truth. I know there are a few characters I use seldomly to lab up that I don't main just like most others.
Maybe people should have more faith in others.

To me it sounds like you and kindred got in am argument back then. Did you make posts about Liu Kang's F4 or how broken you thought he was?

I guess you need to look at it a different way. Let me explain: if someone was to say Shang Tsung requires no skill and can Zone out characters with just GS and is a single win button character vs some. Would that rage you? Would you want to correct it since several scrubs are claiming he is and its possible he could get an unjustified nerf?

That is literally what is happening to LK. People are shifting the blame from themselves to the character instead of labbing it up and they want the character nerfed.


I guess we will leave it at that. I have known kindred by playing him in the TYM tournament and he is a cool guy that is very chill. Words get lost on forums and many are misunderstood.