Fundamentals VS combos

[John Grizzly]

Luckily MK11 doesn't have combos, so just focus on fundamentals.

 

[Tanno]

Luckily MK11 doesn't have combos, so just focus on fundamentals.

If only that were the case. Some characters just ignore the fundamentals.

 

[Matix218]

The word fundamentals is kinda lost in a game that has moves that ignore neutral like teleports

Yet sonic fox/scar/foxy/dragon etc have the best fundimentals and consistently win in this game at the highest level... nice try though.

 

[Wigy]

But then- mk9 cyrax is laughing at your poll results.

 

[Matix218]

But then- mk9 cyrax is laughing at your poll results.

Although no cyrax won a major until the 3rd evo with DJT, so it took a player with amazing fundimentals to win at the highest level even with that broken mess of a character

 

[Wigy]

Although no cyrax won a major until the 3rd evo with DJT, so it took a player with amazing fundimentals to win at the highest level even with that broken mess of a character

I was just kidding. You must be fun at parties.

 

[Matix218]

I was just kidding. You must be fun at parties.

I was just pointing out that even in a case where a character literally has 100% damage combos fundimentals STILL are required to win in high level play. I wasn't trying to dis your post in my reply. Don't be so touchy man.

 

[GLoRToR]

Recently today, I had a discussion with another poster and now I'm really interested to know the global opinion here regarding the topic :
FUNDAMENTALS OR COMBOS
Between these 2 :
what makes the difference between good players and pros?
What requires more skill ?
What's harder to master ?

Combos take an hour to get down tops.
Fundamentals take years.

 

[Sanjo]

My answer is fundamentals but I'd argue combos are part of fundies. I think you misunderstood me in the other thread. Side switches, reading you opponent and punishing with the most optimal response, setting up oki, corner carry into restands ect are apart of fundamentals as well as proper spacing, identifying player tendencies, adjusting to your opponents, making good reads, footsie, Wiff punishing, shimmy, setplay, optimizing staggers, Anti Airing JIK/JIP, Frame perfect-frame traps, wave dashing and cancels is all needed to play at a high level.

How you start, carry and end your combos are very important in every MK but you can't play at a high level without fundamentals.

Well, you did say that combos require more skill than fundamentals. Also, you said that fundamentals were easy enough to be worked in practice and required less time than combos. I think it's the absolute opposite as I replied that combos are a 1 player game whereas fundamentals are a 2 player game, which makes it way more complicated.

 

[Kindred]

IMO, Neither. The options you gave can separate ok players from good players. The good ones will usually have better fundamentals as well as have taken the time to learn the combos. The ok ones would have just spent their time practicing combos.

What separates good players from pros is adaptability and patience. Pros will be more patient then attack only when it is their turn to do so and they will be faster to adapt to your ever changing strategy. For example, if you have the tendency to neutral jump in specific scenarios (i.e. after a specific string), pros will adjust to that and punish you the next time around. While a good player will catch on or modify his behavior much later.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

IMO, Neither. The options you gave can separate ok players from good players. The good ones will usually have better fundamentals as well as have taken the time to learn the combos. The ok ones would have just spent their time practicing combos.

What separates good players from pros is adaptability and patience. Pros will be more patient then attack only when it is their turn to do so and they will be faster to adapt to your ever changing strategy. For example, if you have the tendency to neutral jump in specific scenarios (i.e. after a specific string), pros will adjust to that and punish you the next time around. While a good player will catch on or modify his behavior much later.

What you mentioned as what separates players is still fundamentals. Fundamentals are still more important than combos alone, because combos, or better said execution, is a part of fundamentals, but fundamentals obviously encompass more than that so therefore combos cannot be more important.

But about what you’re saying specifically, adaptability and patience are again both aspects of fundamentals. What separates the two is just who is better fundamentally. Who understands the different aspects better, and who can find the easiest way to run their game against the opponent. Good players can do it, but take significantly longer, which obviously implies they aren’t as good fundamentally as those at the top.

 

[Vslayer]

Fundamentals, you can kill someone by just punishing them with a simple throw or anti-air.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Well, you did say that combos require more skill than fundamentals. Also, you said that fundamentals were easy enough to be worked in practice and required less time than combos. I think it's the absolute opposite as I replied that combos are a 1 player game whereas fundamentals are a 2 player game, which makes it way more complicated.

I didn't say that. I think you just took it that way or I worded it poorly. I said almost everything in MK11 us low execution I never said one was more important than the other I think both is very important besides you can't have one without the other. It takes fundamentals to do them combos vs a high level player.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Fundamentals.

Technically you can win only standing 1-ing your opponent every time you out space/neutral them, bait them, punish them, etc. It would just require a lot more reads. But if you had the better fundamentals you could do it.

Combos just help move you closer to your win quicker, by rewarding your good fundamental play.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Early on in MK11 I could always tell what I call a combo-warrior from an actual player. Combo-warriors dial in strings and can nail these fancy optimals. Intimidating at first until I realized I just had to play smart. Players whoop the shit outta me by knowing defense, spacing, when to poke, anti-airs...fundamentals.

 

[Gaxkang]

Fundamentals.

Technically you can win only standing 1-ing your opponent every time you out space/neutral them, bait them, punish them, etc. It would just require a lot more reads. But if you had the better fundamentals you could do it.

Combos just help move you closer to your win quicker, by rewarding your good fundamental play.

Yeah, like how I tend to play it's more involved, takes more time. Different than landing a jump in and taking half a life bar heh.

Something I also dislike in a fighting game is plus on block gameplay, that sorta thing.

I still don't believe MK11 really promotes fundamentals in its current state all that much...it can be there, but there's a lot of other stuff.

I don't really consider for example the shenanigans Sub Zero gets up to, especially online, to be about fundamentals heh.

 

[MrArcher15]

Fundamentals, but of course combos matter. If you aren’t optimizing your damage you could lose because you chose not to. However if you don’t have the fundamentals you’re gonna be struggling to even get in and do anything.

 

[lionheart21]

Combos are what you use when you successfully hit-confirm with the correct set-up. Fundamentals teach how to properly make the correct set-up, and when to do so. It also helps you know how to counter your opponent.

 

[Bucketfeet]

You can know 0 combos I this game and still win with the right plays. Combos obviously play a big role in maximizing damage and setup your next moves but it all comes down to the fundamentals.

You can win purely on pokes and throws for example.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You can know 0 combos I this game and still win with the right plays. Combos obviously play a big role in maximizing damage and setup your next moves but it all comes down to the fundamentals.

You can win purely on pokes and throws for example.

I won vs someone at a local with only pokes and projectile. But when I faced players closer to my skill level I needed to do optimal combos. Combos become more important the better your opponent is, things like oki and restands can tip the scales in your favor or doing 50% combos blows up just two mistakes. I consider combos, spacing, zoning, adapting, AA, setplay, staggers, frametraps etc all fundamentals which are all needed as well as MU knowledge, fast reactions and reading your opponents to be successful in MK11.

 

[NaCl man]

^^
100% this.

That what i ment by the question is weird.

You need all of the above so i consider them both a fundimental part of any fighting game. They go hand in hand.