Throws

[lordlosh]

KB-s as a whole need to be balanced and yes there shouldnt be a throw KB. This is plain dumb. Throws damage right now is pretty high as well. It should be no more than 12%. Maybe the best damage is 10%.
Im also for a bit of more room to tech a throw, not only in online, but as a whole. A lot of pros have hard time teching them. 50/50s on throw should stay. I don`t see a better way for them.
Nerf the damage from 14% to 10, or max 12%, bigger window for teching them and yeah when you crounch or get up after crounch should not land a throw.

 

[Invincible Salads]

what happens when u get a player who doesnt give a shit about positioning and just wants that sweet 14%?

 

[Qwark28]

Wow.
You can't possibly ever conceive the possibility, that maybe players can start throwing you in the direction opposite to that of the obvious one? It's crazy, right?

And that's where the mixup is.

Welcome to fighting games 101, where you actually have to think and not complain simply because counterplay is a thing.

"I had to eat 14% to avoid the 31, why do I have to think : (((((((((("

 

[Sanjo]

Some people might get 2nd degree burns but what the hell ! It's one of them moments : "STOP BITCHIN' AND GET GUUUUUUD !"

 

[thlityoursloat]

And that's where the mixup is.

Welcome to fighting games 101, where you actually have to think and not complain simply because counterplay is a thing.

"I had to eat 14% to avoid the 31, why do I have to think : (((((((((("

"I had to eat 14% into possible oki, while still being at risk of eating 31%, I'm so bad at this game because my coin flipping skills are terrible, oh and if I take another grab, that's essentially crushing blow damage, and the crushing blow is still loaded". As if it's not already bad enough that grabs eat buttons, do 14% (!) and are 50/50s?
When MKX does it, it's an outrage, when this game has a bullshit 50/50 mechanic "just take this option bro, it does less damage".

Some people might get 2nd degree burns but what the hell ! It's one of them moments : "STOP BITCHIN' AND GET GUUUUUUD !"

Yea sure, bro, I'm gonna take coin flipping lessons courtesy of Harvey Dent. You coming?

 

[GLoRToR]

Because it would eliminate the ability to bait throw escape attempts in order to punish them. It's also covering two options at once by being able to block at the same time unless pressing a button caused block to release. I dont know how well that would play out.

It's how it always was in most games. Breaking is already a 50/50

 

[Qwark28]

"I had to eat 14% into possible oki, while still being at risk of eating 31%, I'm so bad at this game because my coin flipping skills are terrible, oh and if I take another grab, that's essentially crushing blow damage, and the crushing blow is still loaded". As if it's not already bad enough that grabs eat buttons, do 14% (!) and are 50/50s?
When MKX does it, it's an outrage, when this game has a bullshit 50/50 mechanic "just take this option bro, it does less damage".



Yea sure, bro, I'm gonna take coin flipping lessons courtesy of Harvey Dent. You coming?

Maybe bc MKX had barely footsies and any derp could run up to you and 50-50 you for free for 40%. But a 14% throw is what really pushed you over the edge huh?

Yeah I'm not gonna educate you on how actual fighting games are played, stick to MKX.

 

[Moms4lif3]

Throes being a 50/50 is not lightly going to change, it’s been a part of this game for a long time. I kinda disliked it for a long time, now that my tech game got better I don’t see it as such a big deal anymore.

I feel the way throws are designed at the moment the tech window could be a little bigger, it’s already kind of okay in good connections but not great.

The thing I agree with the most is, that throws should not be able to eat up normals as easily. I get throw ‚kounter‘ a lot even though I am just trying to mash d1/d2 because I know they are going to throw me. In the end it doesn’t even end up teching after the throw animation connects? That’s straight up bullshit and should never happen.

 

[SwiftEagle]

Right, which is why I said those characters are in need of an overhaul. If a character relies on a universal mechanic to get their damage, they are a poorly designed character destined to be low tier. After all, the mechanic is universal, so even the characters with better tools can still use it if they want, making the low-tier character utterly redundant.

Couldn't have said it better. I use Johnny a lot, and he pretty much relies on throws to win. I feel like a bitch for doing it, but it's the only way I can open up good players. Once you play against somebody who reads your throws everytime when you play as him, you might as well give up, because that's all he has. But yea, throws are overpowered. Johnny's grab is like Jax's; you can't even see it coming most of the time.

 

[SwiftEagle]

The last big issue is that this throw meta significantly benefits the best characters that have strong mids. A lot of the poorly-designed characters that rely on throws to get their damage lack decent mids. This makes them more likely to eat D2 krushing blows than the characters that don't need to rely on throws. After all, no one is going to be neutral-ducking Kabal, Geras, Cassie, or any other character with a fast mid that leads to 25%+.

Good point

 

[Matador Fiend]

Maybe bc MKX had barely footsies and any derp could run up to you and 50-50 you for free for 40%. But a 14% throw is what really pushed you over the edge huh?

Yeah I'm not gonna educate you on how actual fighting games are played, stick to MKX.

Is MKX not a fighting game? Even if you dont agree with someone (which it seems is often the case), is it really necessary to come off like a total tool in nearly every post you make?

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I'm landing more techs in this mk than others. I doubt im getting better reactions in my old age. They probably widened the window for this game already, or the netcode is considerably better than in the past.

 

[SwiftEagle]

And that's where the mixup is.

Welcome to fighting games 101, where you actually have to think and not complain simply because counterplay is a thing.

"I had to eat 14% to avoid the 31, why do I have to think : (((((((((("

You're not thinking, you're guessing. It's a 50/50.

 

[Vhozite]

50/50's do force you to make a choice, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's all guesswork. People aren't robots who go with perfectly random options every time. Very often there are tells or other factors you can identify to influence your choice. A very basic example is when you tech for a forward throw knowing that you are close to the corner and your opponent wants to keep you there.

I'm not saying this to be a pedantic dick. I think this concept is really important and often overlooked by newer FG players. To say there is no thought involved (from either side) is incorrect. The mini game obviously favors the initiator but you should never just guess.

 

[TotteryManx]

Tbh, throws were my biggest complaint when the game came out, but I worked on it and have greatly improved since. It can be a guessing game if your opponent is a madman, but a competent player will try to keep you close to the corner. Another thing that helped is I stopped holding the block button when trying to tech. That was a habit that took a long time to break. Most b2b fighters will let you hold back and break a throw. In this game, you can't hold block and tech.

If throws are nerfed a lot of characters would be nerfed by default. Kung Lao has been having great showings at tournaments and they all throw like crazy. I know you want to revamp the characters, but lets be realistic. NRS isn't doing that.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Defending throws suck in bad connections and sadly this game is filled with them.

It's pretty bad when you block a d1 and do a 7 frame S1 and eat a throw completely negating your knowledge of frames

Another situation that ive experienced is being grabbed out of a max range f4 with cage

Tell me if I'm wrong and this is suppose to happen

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I want to know who started this talking point that 14% is egregious and broken but 12% is perfectly fine. This is the most I have seen people complain about 2% damage in a fighting game

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

And then half the playerbase drops because not everybody likes back to block.

Mk player since mk1 when I was 7. Diehard fan. Take away the block button and I'm out.

 

[Qwark28]

You're not thinking, you're guessing. It's a 50/50.

Depends.

Throws are very often not 50-50s based on multiple factors.

 

[Qwark28]

Is MKX not a fighting game? Even if you dont agree with someone (which it seems is often the case), is it really necessary to come off like a total tool in nearly every post you make?

Sorry, little patience for morons who don't know 2 things about fighting games but are so sure on their opinions being facts.

So no, but the ignore feature exists for a reason.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Sorry, little patience for morons who don't know 2 things about fighting games but are so sure on their opinions being facts.

So no, but the ignore feature exists for a reason.

Hey dumbfuck, when did I ever explicitly claim my opinion was fact?

 

[Shishio]

Just don't tech. Neutral crouch if you know a throw is coming for sure.

It's not a 50/50 if you get hit every time like I do because I'm old and don't have the reactions to tech:

I can't tell how many times i died trying to guess grabs and duck.

 

[RexyWrecks]

Just introduce true crossups into the game and remove the goddamn block button then there will be new options to open someone up.
Fuck tradition.

Effectively killing what makes Scorpion great.

 

[Tony at Home]

It's pretty bad when you block a d1 and do a 7 frame S1 and eat a throw completely negating your knowledge of frames

This SAME situation would happen if your opponent pressed any other 10 frame button.

Throws don't magically get properties in laggy environments that other moves don't have.

 

[TakeAChance]

This SAME situation would happen if your opponent pressed any other 10 frame button.

Throws don't magically get properties in laggy environments that other moves don't have.

Except it wouldnt. If that 10f is a high, you would beat it. Throws the moment they are active are destroying normals. If that d3 or d4 has to travel a distance, the throw will eat it. That fundamentally should not happen. Buttons should beat throws every single time. If im holding block ill eat 5 million deserved throws. If im playing Kano and eat d1 throw (kounter throw) even though im confirming the poke, I just shake my head. Yes thats an online issue 100 percent, but its an extremely strong tactic there atm.

To summarize I dont think throws should ever "kounter" a normal.