Why didnt NRS just make a Kompetitive and Kustom Kompetitive mode to begin with?

[L3MMYsaves]

I guess what i mean to say is that nrs standardized a competitive game that is well balanced. pro tourneys with no erron or sonya? no scorpion? stop whining about nerfs. looks good to me. and on top of that they gave you a sandbox available everywhere except ranked matches. just learn a legal variaton or two and play everything else for fun, this nitpicking blows my mind. solid game. im not ADD enough to need more depth, im not stupid enough to think shortcomings in my game are NRS’ fault... we good. for those with the ADD thing, play injustice, that rabbit hole goes forever in that game, ul love it. the people with the latter problem should be stripped of their right to have any opinions at all, and given a nice secure job manufacturing shoes.

 

[Enexemander]

"ul."

 

[lordlosh]

There's still too much fucked up stuff in custom variations. Scorpion with Sin Blade and Tele Cancel is too much. Sub Zero with Air Axe and fast iceball is too much. Kabal custom is still insanity.

I think the better way forward is to add more ranked variations and fix the obvious shit ones.

Getting just two instead of three each at launch was a pretty bad deal though. This is absolutely worth fixing before Evo.

So the pro don`t know what they playing against and have like zero time to train/prepare to the new variation and to looks kinda stupid right ?
If there is going to be patch/fix/new variation/content stuff it should be after EVO.
And exactly what L3MMYsaves said.
You know how hard is it to balance 26 character(and more to come) x2(variation) = 52 in total(for now) ? This is so much time consuming. No one is limiting your game time experience. No one promise you anything.
I prefer DEVS to work on new things/mechanics/modes, instead of this.

Right now the game is in great balance, there is like 10-20% stuffs that needs to be touched/balanced.
But just look at the Pro Tournaments from the begining of the year.
We have:
SonicFox - Erron Black at Summit of Time
Scar - Sonya as a winner of Combo
Kombat - Jonny Cage at NA East Online Cup
SonicFox - Cassie Cage at CEO
Hayatei - Erron Black at Viennality
FoxyGrampa - Kung Lao at VSFighting

So much diversity for a winning player character and if you look at top 8 at this tournament you will see the bigger and the whole picture and how many different character are there in top 8. And the scene and game evolve with every new tournament.

 

[Saboteur-6]

I've got no evidence but I wonder if NRS's plan for longevity in shifting the meta WILL be to introduce new tournament variations incorporating unused moves?

I agree though that the marketing pointed towards a system that allowed for competitively balanced custom loadouts. Like many others I would've preferred that to locked presets but I figured it was too much to try and balance competitively.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

“Hey let’s put all of our time and effort into making all these different moves but let’s also make sure we only ever showcase a fraction of them at tournaments.” -NRS

It’d be like if Overwatch League only allowed support characters to be played. I’m sure it’d still be suuuuper popular.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It’d be like if Overwatch League only allowed support characters to be played. I’m sure it’d still be suuuuper popular.

There’s a system in Overwatch that lets you customize hero abilities to your liking, and do all kinds of stuff that you can’t do in ranked, but I don’t think you’ll be seeing it in competitive play any time soon

People who want to do that play on custom servers and everyone understands and it’s fine.

 

[Hellbringer]

There’s a system in Overwatch that lets you customize hero abilities to your liking, and do all kinds of stuff that you can’t do in ranked, but I don’t think you’ll be seeing it in competitive play any time soon

People who want to do that play on custom servers and everyone understands and it’s fine.

Yeah but thats like saying you can do all sort of stuff in towers of times with augments and character upgrades but thats not the point.
Its not like in overwatch has character abilities available like mcree roll or junkrat mines, but not allowed in ranked.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yeah but thats like saying you can do all sort of stuff in towers of times with augments and character upgrades but thats not the point.
Its not like in overwatch has character abilities available like mcree roll or junkrat mines, but not allowed in ranked.

They're not upgrades, though -- you can fundamentally change the character's toolkit in custom servers. It's much closer so something that actually modifies the character's base toolset.

The point is, that games frequently allow you to do things in other modes that you can't do in their main competitive mode. Sometimes they eventually might creep their way into the main game, and sometimes they won't. Back in the day, they even hid these kinds of things behind cheat codes, or in special debug areas before games became as complex as they are today. People who mine game code are still constantly finding things (extra moves, abilities, etc, even characters and stages) that were programmed into games, but not allowed to be used for whatever reason. So this is nothing new, dating back years.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

There’s a system in Overwatch that lets you customize hero abilities to your liking, and do all kinds of stuff that you can’t do in ranked, but I don’t think you’ll be seeing it in competitive play any time soon

People who want to do that play on custom servers and everyone understands and it’s fine.

Are you really doing this? Can you stop being such a shill for one goddamn day please; it’s exhausting watching you stretch the truth and be this fucking disingenuous on behalf of NRS every single time I come to this website.

MK11 is not the equivalent of custom game options in an FPS, it’s the equivalent of half the cast’s abilities not even existing in ranked and tournament play. Don’t fucking quote me again until Blizzard previews how Pharah can fly in Overwatch 2 but locks that ability to custom game modes only for balance’s sake.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

So the pro don`t know what they playing against and have like zero time to train/prepare to the new variation and to looks kinda stupid right ?
If there is going to be patch/fix/new variation/content stuff it should be after EVO.
And exactly what L3MMYsaves said.
You know how hard is it to balance 26 character(and more to come) x2(variation) = 52 in total(for now) ? This is so much time consuming. No one is limiting your game time experience. No one promise you anything.
I prefer DEVS to work on new things/mechanics/modes, instead of this.

Right now the game is in great balance, there is like 10-20% stuffs that needs to be touched/balanced.
But just look at the Pro Tournaments from the begining of the year.
We have:
SonicFox - Erron Black at Summit of Time
Scar - Sonya as a winner of Combo
Kombat - Jonny Cage at NA East Online Cup
SonicFox - Cassie Cage at CEO
Hayatei - Erron Black at Viennality
FoxyGrampa - Kung Lao at VSFighting

So much diversity for a winning player character and if you look at top 8 at this tournament you will see the bigger and the whole picture and how many different character are there in top 8. And the scene and game evolve with every new tournament.

That doesn't mean its super balanced. I think 11 is pretty balanced but there are disparities in the tiers.

Here is the results from Evolution 2016 MKXL

1st: cR SonicFox (Hollywood Cassie, Gunslinger Erron Black, Acidic Alien)
2nd: Tekken Master (Swarm Queen D'Vorah; War/Blood God Kotal)
3rd: PG Scar (Demolition Sonya)
4th: EVB BigD (Ermac)
5th: Orbit | MTL Hayatei (Ronin Takeda)
5th: cR WoundCowboy (Shinnok)
7th: YOMI Michaelangelo (Quan Chi)
7th: EVB Dragon (Tarkatan Alien)

Looks pretty much the same in diversity

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Are you really doing this? Can you stop being such a shill for one goddamn day please; it’s exhausting watching you stretch the truth and be this fucking disingenuous on behalf of NRS every single time I come to this website.

MK11 is not the equivalent of custom game options in an FPS, it’s the equivalent of half the cast’s abilities not even existing in ranked and tournament play. Don’t fucking quote me again until Blizzard previews how Pharah can fly in Overwatch 2 but locks that ability to custom game modes only for balance’s sake.

No, in fact they said exactly what it'd be at the start -- that it might or might not make it into competitively play. Literally on the day of reveal, they said they weren't sure and that the variations for comp might be preset. It came straight from Ed Boon, all the way from the top.

If you have a problem accepting it, that's on you; but people acting like this is completely out of left field and was rash and unprecedented are kidding themselves.

I've been clear about both what I like and what I don't like about the game; but there's nothing worse than someone who can only complain and doesn't even read what was said way back in January. NRS already spoke for themselves.

The only difference between this situation and any other game is that they bothered to present it as a 'maybe' ahead of time, rather than just releasing it at/after launch as some extra mode for kicks, or just leaving it out altogether.

 

[Enexemander]

So by your own admission we can infer that the game was designed for custom variations, and they ran out of time or weren't confident in their ability to balance them.

It still makes the game feel incredibly stilted. Remember MKX had 3 fully fledged variations. MK11 has 2, and they are hella questionable.

 

[spidey300]

why didn't nrs just give us characters with various base moves instead of locking specials away? why couldn't they just go with 3 variations instead of baiting us with selectable specials? just nrs things

 

[spidey300]

Are you really doing this? Can you stop being such a shill for one goddamn day please; it’s exhausting watching you stretch the truth and be this fucking disingenuous on behalf of NRS every single time I come to this website.

MK11 is not the equivalent of custom game options in an FPS, it’s the equivalent of half the cast’s abilities not even existing in ranked and tournament play. Don’t fucking quote me again until Blizzard previews how Pharah can fly in Overwatch 2 but locks that ability to custom game modes only for balance’s sake.

glad someone else thinks this shit. dude is a known shill.

 

[Hellbringer]

No, in fact they said exactly what it'd be at the start -- that it might or might not make it into competitively play. Literally on the day of reveal, they said they weren't sure and that the variations for comp might be preset. It came straight from Ed Boon, all the way from the top.

If you have a problem accepting it, that's on you; but people acting like this is completely out of left field and was rash and unprecedented are kidding themselves.

I've been clear about both what I like and what I don't like about the game; but there's nothing worse than someone who can only complain and doesn't even read what was said way back in January. NRS already spoke for themselves.

The only difference between this situation and any other game is that they bothered to present it as a 'maybe' ahead of time, rather than just releasing it at/after launch as some extra mode for kicks, or just leaving it out altogether.

So they werent sure, on the day of release. Yeah doesnt look good lol

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

No, in fact they said exactly what it'd be at the start -- that it might or might not make it into competitively play. Literally on the day of reveal, they said they weren't sure and that the variations for comp might be preset. It came straight from Ed Boon, all the way from the top.

If you have a problem accepting it, that's on you; but people acting like this is completely out of left field and was rash and unprecedented are kidding themselves.

I've been clear about both what I like and what I don't like about the game; but there's nothing worse than someone who can only complain and doesn't even read what was said way back in January. NRS already spoke for themselves.

The only difference between this situation and any other game is that they bothered to present it as a 'maybe' ahead of time, rather than just releasing it at/after launch as some extra mode for kicks, or just leaving it out altogether.

What did I tell you about quoting me? Look, we get it, you’re Ed Boon on a hidey account and you warned us a long time ago that you might end up fucking your game up, but our problem isn’t that we didn’t listen to your warning, it’s that we didn’t want you to fuck your game up.

 

[Invincible Salads]

lol, just play custom, fuck tournaments, they don't want player creativity being a factor in tourneys

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Yea its a bummer that I don't get to participate in the game as much as I'd like, but im at the age now where I'm only ever going to play games the way I want to play them. No more locals for me, which isn't too bad, as there's a couple really unlikable people in my local scene and I don't want wrapped up in their drama. I get shit talked a lot for being cheap/cheater/scrub for not using tournament variations. I can't participate in leaderboards and other tools for measuring one's e-penis.

It doesn't really sound like a loss when I put it that way. Just play the game the way that it's fun for you. If you wanna hang out at locals, go anyway. You'll still get a good few hours of money matches and casual sets after the tournament is over, and it won't cost you any intro fees. At least on PC, there's a ton of people playing kasuals, so there's not really a shortage of people to play. As long as you don't mind a slight feeling of exclusion among people that take the game more seriously, then you're good.

Edit: Speaking of... Don't date people in your local MK community. It will cause your local scene to disentegrate when you guys start cheating on each other. We lost 3 well known players over it.

 

[SwiftEagle]

We wouldn't have this problem, nor.would we have serious balance problems if the call of duty variation system didn't exist. Every should have 1 style and that's it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

So they werent sure, on the day of release. Yeah doesnt look good lol

Not the day of release -- the day of reveal, which was in January, a few months before the game came out.

 

[Eonfuzz]

Play kasual. its a thing. you try developing and balancing 26 characters and keeping it interesting, two variations makes 52? i think they did a damn good job of it. you can play, online, against matchmaking, local with the boys, whatever, as custom as u wanna be, are you demanding NRS give you permission to compete for money with that one unbalanced combo extending move kabals got? or some specific combo? if its an issue for you thats probably why you cant compete with it. customization ripens ground for unlevel game parameters, damaging (severely) any viability for actual competetion. id rather have a contest of reflex and skill then play a game of “who found the most broke special moves”, they have kasual matches for that. this is the type of debate that puts caluses on my temples, all the forehead rubbing is gonna give me tendonitis too bad to keep playing the game.

As far as I'm concerned NRS doesn't care about the game's balance anyway, so don't bother bringing that up as an argument against it.
Why go through all the effort of putting in CUSTOM variations if they matter diddly bloody squat in the end game.

IF however, as you implied, NrS cArEs AbOuT BaLaNcE, then they can take some time and effort and balance those moves and the actual darn game. I would LOVE to see some variation in the online movesets, because as it stands, this game is currently playing very much like Street Fighter V with little to no player expression and gameplay identity.

Afterall they have the 3 slots mechanic, and they could even have it so abilities may lock you out of others.

inj 2 didnt have enough variety for you? theres so much wackadoo craziness going on in that (well populated) roster u could keep it interesting for a couple lifetimes...

But I thought you said NRS cares about balance? Look at this man spew contradicting points between arguments.

I guess what i mean to say is that nrs standardized a competitive game that is well balanced. pro tourneys with no erron or sonya? no scorpion? stop whining about nerfs. looks good to me. and on top of that they gave you a sandbox available everywhere except ranked matches. just learn a legal variaton or two and play everything else for fun, this nitpicking blows my mind. solid game. im not ADD enough to need more depth, im not stupid enough to think shortcomings in my game are NRS’ fault... we good. for those with the ADD thing, play injustice, that rabbit hole goes forever in that game, ul love it. the people with the latter problem should be stripped of their right to have any opinions at all, and given a nice secure job manufacturing shoes.

Shortcomings in a game developed and released by NRS aren't NRS' fault? Okay buddy, I'm now upset I wasted 15 minutes writing this post.

 

[L3MMYsaves]

As far as I'm concerned NRS doesn't care about the game's balance anyway, so don't bother bringing that up as an argument against it.
Why go through all the effort of putting in CUSTOM variations if they matter diddly bloody squat in the end game.

IF however, as you implied, NrS cArEs AbOuT BaLaNcE, then they can take some time and effort and balance those moves and the actual darn game. I would LOVE to see some variation in the online movesets, because as it stands, this game is currently playing very much like Street Fighter V with little to no player expression and gameplay identity.

Afterall they have the 3 slots mechanic, and they could even have it so abilities may lock you out of others.



But I thought you said NRS cares about balance? Look at this man spew contradicting points between arguments.



Shortcomings in a game developed and released by NRS aren't NRS' fault? Okay buddy, I'm now upset I wasted 15 minutes writing this post.

shortcoming in MY game, like my ability to play. and this is notably more balanced competetively, as a game, then the other fighting games recieving attention. context clues. i cant help but make assumptions about the origins of your opinions the same way you were assuming about mine but i think your views on NRS and balance are provably incorrect, empirical evidence. u need sources homie?

 

[theotherguy]

Why go through all the effort of putting in CUSTOM variations if they matter diddly bloody squat in the end game.

What? There's 4 whole dedicated sections of the game to use customs - Classic towers/ToT/VS offlline/casual online.

This forum may be tournament-centric, and the game might be the best tournament worthy NRS game ever, but that's a drop in the ocean to the millions and millions that bought the game and play it casually. They more than likely don't give a shit about the tournament variations or ranked play and instead play dress-ups with their custom loadouts.

So they do more than diddly squat in the end game. Just because you don't play those modes doesn't make it any less true.

 

[L3MMYsaves]

“Hey let’s put all of our time and effort into making all these different moves but let’s also make sure we only ever showcase a fraction of them at tournaments.” -NRS

It’d be like if Overwatch League only allowed support characters to be played. I’m sure it’d still be suuuuper popular.

I recieve and understand your point, but its not intellegent. tournaments are a regulated playground, the variety and cinema is for an unregulated space, you should be embarrassed that someone needs to explain that “showcase moves” isnt a thing one does when competing in a serious context, especially when such effort has been put towards developing a regulation set. do you play in tournament settings? does anyone who DOES cry about the lack of custom variants competitively? everyone thinks it would be cool, but its very clear why thats just not how it works.

 

[Eonfuzz]

shortcoming in MY game, like my ability to play. and this is notably more balanced competetively, as a game, then the other fighting games recieving attention. context clues. i cant help but make assumptions about the origins of your opinions the same way you were assuming about mine but i think your views on NRS and balance are provably incorrect, empirical evidence. u need sources homie?

Sorry if I interpreted your post incorrectly fam, but reading what you type feels like I need an enigma machine.

What? There's 4 whole dedicated sections of the game to use customs - Classic towers/ToT/VS offlline/casual online.

This forum may be tournament-centric, and the game might be the best tournament worthy NRS game ever, but that's a drop in the ocean to the millions and millions that bought the game and play it casually. They more than likely don't give a shit about the tournament variations or ranked play and instead play dress-ups with their custom loadouts.

So they do more than diddly squat in the end game. Just because you don't play those modes doesn't make it any less true.

Those modes may aswell not exist, aside from casual online.
Even then, you're basically arguing that Blizzard supports Wild in Hearthstone too, lmao.

I recieve and understand your point, but its not intellegent. tournaments are a regulated playground, the variety and cinema is for an unregulated space, you should be embarrassed that someone needs to explain that “showcase moves” isnt a thing one does when competing in a serious context, especially when such effort has been put towards developing a regulation set. do you play in tournament settings? does anyone who DOES cry about the lack of custom variants competitively? everyone thinks it would be cool, but its very clear why thats just not how it works.

Is this dude honestly insulting someone's intellgence? Is he self aware?

Look, people play more bizarre fighting games than vanilla MK11. Tournament players play where the money is.
If the money involves learning different variation movesets, so be it.