MK11 Post Launch Content Compared to MKX and Injustice 2

[Enexemander]

Please God play more FGs & try to tell me the balance at launch in MK11 is that bad

The first fighting game I played was called Karate Champ and it was perfectly balanced (well, depending on the state of the controllers, heh.) Attributing any opinion I have on a basis of "not enough experience" is pretty laughable in this arena. But it's kinda like going to a bar and getting carded at my age. It's a nice compliment even if it's unintentional.

There's no excuse for the hitbox issues in the game, currently. They are a bug and clearly break the rules of their own game (as per the tutorial on how attacks interact). Three months out of a supported game to have these kinds of bugs is simply unacceptable. Unacceptable in any AAA game regardless of genre, but especially in a fighting game where the entire foundation is built on these hitbox / hurtbox interactions.

I'm not going to belabor the point further. I've said my piece. For people that are happy with this, okay. I think you have low standards but you're welcome to your opinion.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The first fighting game I played was called Karate Champ and it was perfectly balanced (well, depending on the state of the controllers, heh.) Attributing any opinion I have on a basis of "not enough experience" is pretty laughable in this arena. But it's kinda like going to a bar and getting carded at my age. It's a nice compliment even if it's unintentional.

There's no excuse for the hitbox issues in the game, currently. They are a bug and clearly break the rules of their own game (as per the tutorial on how attacks interact). Three months out of a supported game to have these kinds of bugs is simply unacceptable. Unacceptable in any AAA game regardless of genre, but especially in a fighting game where the entire foundation is built on these hitbox / hurtbox interactions.

I'm not going to belabor the point further. I've said my piece. For people that are happy with this, okay. I think you have low standards but you're welcome to your opinion.

It seems like you can’t figure out whether you’re talking about the game balance, or some moves conditionally whiffing in certain situations when it seems like they should hit..

Bugfixes and balance are not the same thing.

 

[Enexemander]

It seems like you can’t figure out whether you’re talking about the game balance, or some moves conditionally whiffing in certain situations when it seems like they should hit..

Bugfixes and balance are not the same thing.

Mainly because the excuse people give about the hitboxes being broken is that "It would affect balance. Wait 4+ months after EVO."

Balance is also an issue, but I can see the argument for keeping that static. Keeping FUBAR hitboxes for the sake of "Balance" doesn't fly, though.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'll be the first one to tell you we need a patch to fix hitbox/hurtbox, adjust Fatal Blows, and make Geras actually require thinking, but man, this thread took a turn lol.

The game is still really good either way. I remember a day when there was no patches, and you just had to play through all types of bs much worse than this. I religiously played Tekken 4, there was no patch to fix unbalanced stages or the atrocity known as Jin. You just enjoy the game so you play it nonstop. We gotta do a little less begging for NRS to do things and just play the game we like. Or if you actually don't like it then sit it out and wait for the patch.

 

[haketh]

I need y'all to play against a Xaiyou in T7 then talk to me about hitbox issues lol. Fuck play so many other games & you'll see weird hitbox shit is a pretty consistent issue in FGs all over for whatever reasons.

I'm a Frost player, believe me I know a thing or two about the whiff issues in this game. They're annoying but unless you're playing Johnny Cage RIP the issues are not that bad & they don't come up super often enough for me to be to irritated.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

I'm still so bad at the game I'm happy they're not loading it with new characters every 2 weeks.
The only thing I'm disappointed with is the lack of bugfixes and quality of life changes needed to make the Krypt/ToT enjoyable.

Unlocking stuff in this game is super ass and I'd like to see hitboxes fixed across the board. Otherwise the patches we had so far were great. Love easy KBs, record slot hiding.

Also fix the fucking netcode. It was great at launch, one patch ago and now we're back to games with WIFI players being unstables messes and the game randomly slowing down/speeding up even on wired connections.

Also pissed at how they don't do Kombat Kasts anymore and if they do they talk about random shit and do these stupid matches against each other instead of talking about what problems they're aware of and plan on fixing and how.

 

[TaserFace007]

All they really need is more communication. It is a good game but there are serious issues which need addressing and they're not being addressed.

People forked over money upfront for extra content with the assumption that this content would be received on the same general schedule as it was in previous games. It has not been and we'd like to know when we're getting what we paid for. If that's once per month, once every two months or whatever that's fine. Just let us know.

There are numerous balance and game play issues that need to be resolved through a patch and they are affecting the gaming experience for a lot of players. If they have a patch ready but they don't want to mess up the training for tournaments and they'll release it after EVO, that's fine. Just let us know. If they figure there's a few hundred people competing at EVO and hundreds of thousands of copies of the game have been sold so they don't give a shit about how it affects the tournament and they're just going to update their game on Tuesday when the KL ends, that's fine. Just let us know.

It's the lack of communication which bothers me the most. I don't care about vague hints on twitter and renders of what might be coming soon or in a while. I want someone to say what's going on.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The more I look into the game the more I realize a few things

1) There were def. multiple teams that "put together" the move slots for variations

2) Not a soul tested hitbox and hurtbox issues. My guess is that higher ups just call these "features"

3) They asked EA and Activision how to really fuck up loot

4) There is clear bias towards characters being "good" in the game. Sonya was ALWAYS going to be good because they had a guest voice actor. Ed really enjoys OP Scorpion.

5) NRS just cannot help themselves when it comes to DLC pre-order characters sucking taints. THey don't want to hear "pay to play" ever.

and finally

6) There was playtests for Geras. The majority agreed "this is fine" in regards to his KBs. This is in COMPARISON with Shao Kahn's KBs. Everyone shoudl do themsleves a favor and go look at how ludicrous his requirements are to land. Noob has to land TEN shadow moves to activate his. I'm confident that no one in the history of any playtest EVER landed that.

The above reasons prove the game was rushed, and communication between teams was few and far between.

I enjoy the game. I like how it plays. I hate the developers. They won't even show hitbox and hurtbox data. We've asked for it for almost a decade. Are they that ashamed? They give little to no insight on what is actually happening.

 

[Gaxkang]

I'm hoping they are gonna release Nightwolf and Sindel together.

 

[chrisisnice]

I have to wonder if they are doing this to keep the casuals interested. If this is the case, I think they are missing the mark here. If you do not release new content fairly regularly, the casuals will move on.

Unlike MK9/MKX I was definitely a casual in IJ2. I never thought I would get in to the game and thought I would play for a month at best (I disliked IGAU). What kept me hooked on it and made me enjoy it more was the regularity of the DLC content. By the time Starfire and Raiden were out I was really in to the game, and kept playing it until well after TMNT came out.

While I know many of you guys are disparaging of casuals., they are where the money is at for NRS. You don't want the well to dry up early or it could potentially mean goodbye further MK11 updates. You would be shortsighted to not see that casuals are REALLY important.

 

[Raider]

I have to wonder if they are doing this to keep the casuals interested. If this is the case, I think they are missing the mark here. If you do not release new content fairly regularly, the casuals will move on.

Unlike MK9/MKX I was definitely a casual in IJ2. I never thought I would get in to the game and thought I would play for a month at best (I disliked IGAU). What kept me hooked on it and made me enjoy it more was the regularity of the DLC content. By the time Starfire and Raiden were out I was really in to the game, and kept playing it until well after TMNT came out.

While I know many of you guys are disparaging of casuals., they are where the money is at for NRS. You don't want the well to dry up early or it could potentially mean goodbye further MK11 updates. You would be shortsighted to not see that casuals are REALLY important.

Exactly. We don't have PS4/XB1/Switch numbers but we do have Steam numbers and they are good indicator of all this.

Playerbase went from 35k to 3k+ in less than 3 months. That say's a lot.

 

[spidey300]

Totally agree with this, Smash Melee literally has 6-8 viable characters, but still has managed a super long life without patches. Id go a step farther and say perfect balance just doesnt exist at all.

The only thing is, NRS isnt known for ever balancing their games completely , mostly just adjusting who was what strength, rather than shortening the gap from weak to strong- and I vividly remember this scene not being taken seriously because of their tendencies to make objectively bad fighting games.

perfect balance pretty much doesn't exist. no smart person would say it does. we're not looking for perfect balance though. just solid balance.

 

[spidey300]

It seems like you can’t figure out whether you’re talking about the game balance, or some moves conditionally whiffing in certain situations when it seems like they should hit..

Bugfixes and balance are not the same thing.

there could definitely be imbalance based on bugs. a character could be stupid incredibly strong because that character has an abusable bug that works in their favor.

 

[Hacenit]

Remember the promise that there would be more Kombat Kasts after release? Good times.
I really don't know what to even think. The pack trailer will probably come out soon, judging from all those stills being posted. But we already know everything in it, and have known for three months (I get that some tried really hard to avoid spoilers and some haven't seen them because they don't care, but I'm pretty sure that almost every fan of the series already knows).
It doesn't really matter how much we wait now, what matters is the frequency of content after the trailer drops. I assume we will get some sort of release date. Monthly characters as in IJ2 was fun, but if they can't make it I get that. But anything over two months would be too much imo.
The biggest thing that needs fixing are the hitboxes. The second biggest are the goddamn loot drops (those are especially unacceptable).

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Sindel's image was shown July 8th, Nightwolf's July 11th. We might get Spawn's image today if they're going on a pattern.

 

[Ayx]

This is not an achievement.

MK9 was legitimately broken at launch (and, so far as I know, still is pretty much). MKX was also busted to fuck and back.
Passing a bar is not an achievement when it's buried in the ground (Halfway to China in MK9's case).

MK11's Day 1 balance is not great. Hitbox bugs make that problem much, much worse.

IMO, NRS fans have very low standards because of how badly designed previous games were. That's ... not a good thing. You're not competing with MK9. You're competing with the popular fighting games of today (and those to be released in the game's life cycle).

That we're 3 months out without a hitbox fix is EXTREMELY BAD.

Hitbox issues have been a thing since MK games have existed. Doesn't anyone remember how UMK3 people would intentionally choose mid-tier Kitana because of her female ninja hitbox?

MK11 day1 balance is WAY better than MK9 Kung Lao, INJ1 Superman, MKX Raiden & INJ2 ?? ( I think it was Black Adam? I forgot didn't follow this game. ) has ever been. Top tiers are annoying but there's not #1 that will literally blow the majority of the cast out of the water no contest like it was for most of these S+ tiers. Also it seems like the meta has developed in more healthy fashion. People raised pitchforks day1 because Breakaways were "broken". now they realize that they're not that bad at all because it still puts the person in the offensive+more on the attacker. Getup moves are still dumb, but neutral jumping, short hop timing etc adds a good layer IMO.

The ONE thing I noticed is how lacking they are w/ Single Player content which they should've been dripping at a more consistent pace to keep the casuals invested. People discovered the entire krypt in a week or two. They nerfed ToTs to the point where it's trivial that even the AI can do it for you at no challenge. More skins would be nice, but I'm not going crazy for it because if they're going to lock 60% of the skins behind Krypt RNG w/ Shrine &/or Kollector it's just equally draining. Character drop wise, yeah it sucks but I think it's a somewhat healthy pace. It's not thrown at you too fast. In MKX we'd have a new character dominate the meta every month/every upcoming major. Although I've always been more of a fan of an "all at once" drop like the old days (MK3 to Ultimate MK3 etc.) if this is the way they're doing it, then I can see it being this way for the remainder of the year.

 

[Hellbringer]

The first fighting game I played was called Karate Champ and it was perfectly balanced (well, depending on the state of the controllers, heh.) Attributing any opinion I have on a basis of "not enough experience" is pretty laughable in this arena. But it's kinda like going to a bar and getting carded at my age. It's a nice compliment even if it's unintentional.

There's no excuse for the hitbox issues in the game, currently. They are a bug and clearly break the rules of their own game (as per the tutorial on how attacks interact). Three months out of a supported game to have these kinds of bugs is simply unacceptable. Unacceptable in any AAA game regardless of genre, but especially in a fighting game where the entire foundation is built on these hitbox / hurtbox interactions.

I'm not going to belabor the point further. I've said my piece. For people that are happy with this, okay. I think you have low standards but you're welcome to your opinion.

Holy crap a karate champ player lmao

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I need y'all to play against a Xaiyou in T7 then talk to me about hitbox issues lol. Fuck play so many other games & you'll see weird hitbox shit is a pretty consistent issue in FGs all over for whatever reasons.

I'm a Frost player, believe me I know a thing or two about the whiff issues in this game. They're annoying but unless you're playing Johnny Cage RIP the issues are not that bad & they don't come up super often enough for me to be to irritated.

People are spoiled. Every year I see us becoming more and more entitled.

It’s crazy to me that as the serious issues have gone down, the complaining has actually gone up.

There’s no way these people playing now would have made it through MK9. Someone is having a hissy fit now because of ‘hitbox issues’ on a few characters? In MK9 we went through infinites, resets and 100% lifebar combos, meter glitch, input bug, player one priority/advantage, characters with literal 9-1 and 8-2 matchups, safe armored launchers, losing 1/3rd life to chip damage.. We could barely even play online with anything resembling normal play. And yet there was actually more appreciation for the game and less developer-bashing. That’s crazy.

 

[Hellbringer]

People are spoiled. Every year I see us becoming more and more entitled.

It’s crazy to me that as the serious issues have gone down, the complaining has actually gone up.

There’s no way these people playing now would have made it through MK9. Someone is having a hissy fit now because of ‘hitbox issues’ on a few characters? In MK9 we went through infinites, resets and 100% lifebar combos, meter glitch, input bug, player one priority/advantage, characters with literal 9-1 and 8-2 matchups, safe armored launchers, losing 1/3rd life to chip damage.. We could barely even play online with anything resembling normal play. And yet there was actually more appreciation for the game and less developer-bashing. That’s crazy.

Im pretty sure 90% of ppl complaining about hitbox issues, dont lose games because of whiffing moves, but more so because they got outplayed. Its usually the ppl putting balance and hitboxes and neutral and whatever fighting game term they think they know into one sentence.

 

[Pizza]

How is it obvious that MK11 was rushed exactly? I strongly disagree with this. SFV was rushed. It barely had any content. MK11 has a sh*t ton of content, did so from the very start. It came with one of the largest starting rosters in a fighting game, and that for a game that has this many moves/variations for each character. Considering this, the game could even be called decently balanced. Sure, there's characters like D'Vorah and a lot of balance changes are needed. But again, balance is decent. The netcode is great. It needs more refining/filtering options but it works very well. A full story mode. Tons of kinds of ladders. The freakin Krypt that is a game of itself.

How was this game rushed exactly?

are you senile

 

[Megax Rocker]

Maybe they want to release more than one character at once?

I think it's more hype to load up an update that has more than one character added.

Maybe we'll get Nightwolf, Sindel, and Spawn along with a balance patch in one big update.

But this is probably wishful thinking.

 

[Marinjuana]

but it is unfinished. whether that be mechanically or content wise it is unfinished. you don't crunch time your employees into spilling company events for a product that should be at least 99% finished. we don't get spur of the moment kombat kasts with a severely humbled derrick and tyler to address content and towers if they weren't unfinished.

It's a triple A game, of course it's "unfinished". That's the nature of how they do these things. But the gameplay did not suffer for it more then past NRS titles which was my point

 

[Raider]

Maybe they want to release more than one character at once?

I think it's more hype to load up an update that has more than one character added.

Maybe we'll get Nightwolf, Sindel, and Spawn along with a balance patch in one big update.

But this is probably wishful thinking.

This is not happening. You will just be disappointed if you expect this to happen.

 

[Tony at Home]

Whats being left out here is that post launch MKX DLCwas often a fucked up mess of horribly imbalanced characters. NRS can take their time. Just no more Kobu Tanya and Acidic Alien disasters please

 

[spidey300]

It's a triple A game, of course it's "unfinished". That's the nature of how they do these things. But the gameplay did not suffer for it more then past NRS titles which was my point

you make it sound like that's acceptable. the gameplay is suffering for it somewhat. there are literal broken hitboxes in the game