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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
DDutchguy said:
It'd make me wonder what the point of F4 would become since F2 would be better in every way except range. F21 being hit confirmable and F2 being 11 frames compared to F4s 14 frames would make the range difference barely noteworthy though.
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F4 is not a good mid, both options leave you right next to the opponent, you could get poked grabbed or whatever, both b34 and f344 are less negative, special cancelable, and push you away from the opponent so their follow up retaliation is more limited.

Making b3 a faster low would stop people neutral ducking all day and allow you to move in with your highs.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
K03bIPb said:
It works sometimes. After boulder in your ass you get blockstun: she has an advantage. Then she bursts water under your knees and you get fullcombo for trying to do something. Agains good Cetrion as Johnny you can't do much with her. Shitty green balls whiffs on her...
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So you’re saying you know she’s at advantage after a boulder on block and you still try to do something???

If you know the MU, cetrion should never get a combo on you. Every special she does at range has an obvious start up. You shouldn’t be getting hit at all. Chip, yes. Hit, no.

When you’re in johnnys sweet spot range, she won’t be throwing crap at you. That’s when you take control as best you can.
 
D

Deleted member 35141

Guest
DDutchguy said:
Johnny needs whiff issues fixed and useful KBs based on him becoming a significantly better character for it. In my opinion he doesn't need any extra dirtiness so long as these two things are done. This way, Johnny can be an honest character compared to some of the others in the cast and still be good. I don't like giving characters dirt because other characters have it too.
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Ok I may have came off as a ass in my post but honestly im gonna assume the hitboxes and KBs dont get fixed hope im wrong.
 
K03bIPb

K03bIPb

Noob
Showstopper is not a very bad variation, but there are hitbox issues too. If camera will connect with f4 and b34 I will happy. So, ShowStopper is really playable variation - I almost get Demi-God in ranked playing not very often, but now I always get an opponent who knows someting about matchup. They will never block, always poking because I can’t really punish for it. I am simply got no mid or low combo starter and they abusing it very hard! I can’t really throw, I can’t do combos, if my opponents character has hitbox issues against Johnny I completely lost.
I main Showstopper and really can use shades KB. I can use camera KB too, if my opponent is somebody like Jackie. There is more than 50% damage of two KBs in combo. There is a problem I can’t really launch my opponent into f344 or 12 strings just because he is completely ducking all the time...
I love second var very much. This Johnny needs: not whiffing b34 camera and f4 camera; normally jailing green balls against most of the roster; something like close distance fast mid even Kung Lao has. Really, f2 should be mid; and, finally, better use for shades without KB and more realizable KB on camera. Something about one or two whiffs, not three. Or three cameras on hit.
And, maybe, shadow kick KB? And string with KB. Why f43 has no a counterhit&punish KB? Or f344 as main Johnny Cages string might have something like KB after 5 successful on block uses, IDN that might be OP but not after Error Black and Geras-the-crushing-blow-machine

My eng is bad. Sorry, guys.
 
J

jollycalf123

Noob
Cobainevermind87 said:
So I'm a bit tipsy, but just wanted to let you guys know that Cage's flawless block up 2 whiffs against Scorpion's f34.


Cheers.
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This only occurs when Johnny's back is against the corner. I'm not sure why it does this, but you can go to training mode and see for yourself that in other situations it seems to work fine. Other times it may whiff midescreen is if you didn't input the U2 fast enough.

Hope this is a bug and can be fixed rather than it being intentional. Thanks for sharing this, it is good to know.

edit: Just went into practice mode and it seems that it also whiffs midscreen if you flawless block while crouching.
 
Cobainevermind87

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
jollycalf123 said:
This only occurs when Johnny's back is against the corner. I'm not sure why it does this, but you can go to training mode and see for yourself that in other situations it seems to work fine. Other times it may whiff midescreen is if you didn't input the U2 fast enough.

Hope this is a bug and can be fixed rather than it being intentional. Thanks for sharing this, it is good to know.

edit: Just went into practice mode and it seems that it also whiffs midscreen if you flawless block while crouching.
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Jayzus christ man. Thanks for letting us know, just disheartening.

This game is a wreck.
 
heildan

heildan

NANI?!
My thoughts (Showstopper, of course).

To make Johnny better they simply need to fix the hitboxes issues and give him better KBs requirements, which are just the right thing to do and wildly requested by everyone in here. In fact, I believe Johnny would be a lot more viable just from NRS adjusting the actual top tier characters, which would make the game more balanced.

About buffs...
KBs:
If they can't animate new KBs, then they probably should improve his f43 string to be mid, so it don't whiff, also making it faster and a bit safer. The KB will still be shitty, tho. However, if they can make new anim, give him a Throw, Flippy (in a combo) or Shadow Kick (as a punish or kounter) KB. That will do it. Nutpunch KB should have his requirement and properties changed to be just like Cassie's, allowing it to be used mid combo. Mime time could be changed to be activated when used against wake up moves or first hit.

Strings:
I really don't wish nor care for them to make f3 a mid like some people in here seems to request. I agree that would make it "braindead".

I'm not sure why, but I really would like the last hit from f212 to be an overhead, so he could trick people into d4 or throw after f21, making his poke and throw game a bit better.
Make startup from b34 just a lil' bit faster.
Make 244 a bit easier to pull off.

Specials:
Reduce his fatal blow startup and make its cancel easier to pull off.
I dunno what I would change in Caged Rage, since the hitboxes were to be fixed the move would be fine as it is.
Change Fistcuffs to have a slightly longer duration or reduced startup, either one would make it better.
Forceballs would also be fine if the hitboxes were to be fixed, no adjustments here.
Nutpunch +7 from +5 on block, maybe make it launch a bit closer, facilitating his combo potencial against smaller/female hitboxes.
 
heildan

heildan

NANI?!
What a dishonest thing to say he is broken when all they play are Erron, Jacqui, Sonya, Geras and Cassie. That's so wrong. Then why don't they play him? As tierwhore as they go, why don't pick him? They must be kidding...
 
CageistheGOAT

CageistheGOAT

Noob
Only one Johnny player at the top level and he barely uses Johnny. They usually say he's broke when nothing whiffs like against geras. I don't see how he's broke when there are so many counters to what he does. They honestly come off as amateurs when talking about Johnny
 
K3M1K4l

K3M1K4l

Banned
Playing Johnny, I must admit.... it is tiring.lol. Sometimes i lose, look at Johnny then I shake my head and keep playing.lol. I know I need to git gud but damn nrs, Can I atleast get one practical kb for my struggles?
 
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CageistheGOAT

CageistheGOAT

Noob
K3M1K4l said:
Playing Johnny, I must admit.... it is tiring.lol. Sometimes i lose, look at Johnny then I shake my head and keep playing.lol. I know I need to git gud but damn nrs, Can I atleast get one practical kb for my struggles?
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Naw u good. Johnny is a incomplete character. Unplayable against half the cast with no kbs. I'll rather him be off the character select screen so i can stop torturing myself until he gets fixed. U have to put in so much work to get a win with him. Its crazy
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
CageistheGOAT said:
Naw u good. Johnny is a incomplete character. Unplayable against half the cast with no kbs. I'll rather him be off the character select screen so i can stop torturing myself until he gets fixed. U have to put in so much work to get a win with him. Its crazy
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From my experience playing footsies and doing D4 into F344/F3 grab/dash up grab/dash up D1 into grab has worked well enough. What makes Johnny so much more work than other characters?
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I can't recommend the Johnny cage guide by Kompetitor enough. It's helped me get a much better feel for how Johnny works than just sitting in the lab by myself and playing ranked.

 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
CageistheGOAT said:
I saw the guide already and been playing him since release. I know what Johnny can do. D4 in f3 stagger is good until u go against someone who tech grabs. Johnny has to work harder against top and high tier. Its just really hard to open up someone who knows the match up
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Fair enough. On my end things are very doable with Johnny, but that could be because I'm not playing the same kinds of players you are that know the matchup well.
 
CageistheGOAT

CageistheGOAT

Noob
I thought he was good to. At first, but then once u go against someone on your skill level then his flaws start to show. Like how he can't pressure Jacqui while she has infinite pressure with her cancels. Or u go against liu kang and he does like 3 kbs. Johnny is not playing mk 11 atm
 
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