Should pokes be more negative on block?

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

I think at this moment everyone knows that mashing is being a very common thing in MK11. Pokes that are 6/7 frames on block and -3/-4 on block might be very annoying for some characters that the fastest mid is a 8 frames poke. This creates a game that everytime you see people doing D1 D1 D1 D3 D4 and that's not fun.
I think all pokes should have a gap of at least 13 frames. For example: 6 frames poke -7 on block. 7 frames poke -6 on block. Etc

Mashing is making people really salty lmao

 

[kcd117]

Yes. No poke should be less negative than -5 imo. This game currently has characters with basically poke blockstrings on some other characters that lack a good poke or a fast mid.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think at this moment everyone knows that mashing is being a very common thing in MK11. Pokes that are 6/7 frames on block and -3/-4 on block might be very annoying for some characters that the fastest mid is a 8 frames poke. This creates a game that everytime you see people doing D1 D1 D1 D3 D4 and that's not fun.

If someone is doing this to you, you just haven't learned the meta yet. Counterpoke, throw them, walk back and punish the poke, etc.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

How are so many struggling with basic fundamentals?

They are fine. Just counter poke, walk back, throw. Noone can D1, D1, D1 if you block and counter poke. Even if it's -3 on block.
6f poke on block -3 = 9 frames till next one comes out and most pokes are 6-8 frames startup.

If they are ever changed then they shouldn't be more than -6 on block. Its the 7f -2 ob ones that are broke online but offline they are counterable but for sake of online maybe make them
6f -6 ob
7f -5 ob
8f -4 ob
9f -3 ob
If they where this way even in 3f latency online you could beat two pokes in a row with 8f starters/pokes. Offline two pokes in a row can be beat by 11f mids.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

Agreed. This shit is corny

 

[gam224]

However if they are more negative on block they should be a bit more plus on hit. I think a lot of these d1>d1 shenanigans are a result of the player not being able to capitalize on the plus frames on hit

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It's not hard to blow up people who do this.

 

[Juggs]

Don’t let people mash D1’s on you and get away with it. Successive D1’s can be counterpoked (worst option), they can be walked back and whiff punished, and they can be reversal specialed with certain special attacks (like Scorpion’s teleport, for instance). Again, to be clear, this is in the “D1 on block into another D1” situation. If they D1 and it hits, you’re forced to block. The good players will D1 and on hit, go for a jail attempt with a high attack. Geras is the best at this since his best mixup starts as a high with 111 or 11 xx quick sand.

D4 pokes are meant to be used in neutral and in footsies. They are meant to be whiff punished, not block punished. Making them punishable on block would really defeat the purpose of them, tbh.

 

[Peckapowa]

yeah i'm not have the same issues with pokes in this game as others i guess. Plenty of viable counter-poking mids in this (Jacqui, Erron, Liu, noob, kung lao, jax, cassie, kabal, shao khan to name a few) that are 9-10 frames which really blow up people who mash pokes. Plenty of pokes have significant enough hit advantage to guarantee slower checks. It's tougher with 12 frame mids/normals but still doable as well. In fact people who frequently d1 or d3 imo are like bbq chicken once you pick up on it.

 

[Peckapowa]

It's not hard to blow up people who do this.

you can also just block and f3 with jaqcui. In general that's another great strat.

 

[Zoidberg747]

There are a lot of ways to blow up blocked pokes so no, I don't think they should be changed.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

you can also just block and f3 with jaqcui. In general that's another great strat.

He mentioned it specifically being a problem for characters with slower mids, so I intentionally didn’t rely on Jacqui’s f3 in the demonstration and picked answers that work for everybody.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Don’t let people mash D1’s on you and get away with it. Successive D1’s can be counterpoked (worst option), they can be walked back and whiff punished, and they can be reversal specialed with certain special attacks (like Scorpion’s teleport, for instance). Again, to be clear, this is in the “D1 on block into another D1” situation. If they D1 and it hits, you’re forced to block. The good players will D1 and on hit, go for a jail attempt with a high attack. Geras is the best at this since his best mixup starts as a high with 111 or 11 xx quick sand.

D4 pokes are meant to be used in neutral and in footsies. They are meant to be whiff punished, not block punished. Making them punishable on block would really defeat the purpose of them, tbh.

So many d4s just go under mids though. It's infuriating.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Oh yeah, there's this too:

Can always cancel a poke into something to make them start respecting it.

 

[TaserFace007]

Yes. When crouching and poking at your opponents is one of the top moves in the game, there's an issue with the game design.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yes. When crouching and poking at your opponents is one of the top moves in the game, there's an issue with the game design.

It’s an issue with your gameplay, not the game design. No true competitive game is designed to benefit people who are too lazy to learn the meta.

 

[Dayvon]

@Juggs
The good players will D1 and on hit, go for a jail attempt with a high attack. Geras is the best at this since his best mixup starts as a high with 111 or 11 xx quick sand.

I've noticed with Geras I can't do this to female characters. Their hurtbox makes him whiff with standing 1 but he can get standing 2 which is slower than standing 1. Do you have this issue with Scorpion ?

 

[GLoRToR]

More negative on block and more positive on hit.

 

[SLy]

Im convinced not many are labbing their issues with this game.

 

[Gruntypants]

Yes. Counterpoking does not exist in this game. This gives characters with fast mids a huge advantage in many situations

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

If you voted yes, to this pole you basically outed yourself as a scrub(someone who doesn't understand fundies)

this is basic fundamentals and has exsisted in mk9 and mkx. Everyone has to learn the poke war at some point otherwise you will lose at tournaments every time.
Mashing D1s do not jail you into more pokes. Noone is changing the game mechanics that have exsisted for many years because a few don't understand what to do.
Your options are Block and conterpoke if you hit continue with fast starter.
Walk back after block, they wiff you get combo.
Throw after first D1, their poke is overided by throw.

I garantee everyone has options for D1 mash. I play Kotal who wiffs after blocking first D1 and his counter D1 wiffs. This is not a problem with game mechanics but a problem with that character. Many of his starters wiff as well including s1 s2 and F1, D3 u shit and D4 is too slow.
I'm not complaining because I know all my options, even with a character that isn't functioning properly can counter it with throw and block then walk back wiff punish because there are multiple universal counters to D1 mash.

 

[Eldriken]

Yes. Counterpoking does not exist in this game. This gives characters with fast mids a huge advantage in many situations

Strange. I counterpoke with Skarlet just fine, even against Geras who has the best d1 in the game.

 

[Qwark28]

If you voted yes, to this pole you basically outed yourself as a scrub.

this is basic fundamentals and has exsisted in mk9 and mkx.
Mashing D1s do not jail you into more pokes. Noone is changing the game mechanics that have exsisted for many years because a few don't understand what to do.
Your options are Block and conterpoke if you hit continue with fast starter.
Walk back after block, they wiff you get combo.
Throw after first D1, their poke us overided by throw.

I garantee everyone has options for D1 mash. I play Kotal who wiffs after blocking first D1 and his counter D1 wiffs. This is not a problem with game mechanics but a problem with that character. Many if his starters wiff as well including s1 s2 and F1, D3 u shit and D4 is too slow.
I'm not complaining because I know all my options, even with a character that isn't functioning properly can counter it with throw and block then walk back wiff punish.

Just because he wants D1s to be more - doesn't mean he's a scrub. D1s are in the best state they've ever been in.

And your examples are wrong. In mk9, d1s were straight up punishable by fast mids. If you D1'd against a good johnny who was on point, you'd eat a full F3 combo.

In MKX they were more - so you didn't see this often unless you played as/vs tremor.

 

[Gruntypants]

Strange. I counterpoke with Skarlet just fine, even against Geras who has the best d1 in the game.

LOL you must be confused. Mk9 had counterpoking, pretty sure MKX did too, but MK11 does not have counterpoking when d1s are - 5 on block and most pokes start up at 7 frames

 

[Eldriken]

LOL you must be confused. Mk9 had counterpoking, pretty sure MKX did too, but MK11 does not have counterpoking when d1s are - 5 on block and most pokes start up at 7 frames

What's stopping someone from poking with a 7f d1 against someone with a 6f d1 that's -4 on block? There's a big enough gap, it's just sorta strict. But it's not stopping you from doing it and hitting them. What am I missing?