Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[MadPropz101]

B12 being mid, mid would probably invalidate the existence of B14. I feel that the only reason why it’s here is to check the ducking of the second high hit. I’d love for the strings to be a tad bit safer. Though I’d rather b1 and f3 be made into -3 or -4. B12 can be block confirmed into superman cancel which makes it safer. F32 is safe but you lose your turn. Those plus making lightning strike safer from midscreen to full screen would be perfect. He already has great buttons to play the game. Though the damage buff would be nice too if it won’t make him too OP.

Yeah I just think he should be a bit safer primarily, also I forgot to mention that I think his df2 lightning should track, currently it's almost useless considering how it can be easily punished for whiffing even from half screen. I would also make it so that it can be amplified on block for some mind games.

 

[f24]

My wishlist:

• lightning strike can amplify on block
• lightning strike safe on block midscreen to full screen, safe on whiff full screen
• bf1 slightly faster
• change electric fly KB from full screen amplified to third amplified electric fly in match

 

[MKF30]

I definitely agree that more of his strings need to be safer, and I don't agree with his canceling his Superman taking a bar. I think, this shouldn't take anything. It's not like it's THAT OP honestly.

 

[Swoops]

Lmao you guys are wild. He’s got relatively safe strings with great reach and start up that can be canceled to bait flawless block punishes (or can go into db2 which requires a different punish) , and you want those strings to be safer and the cancel not to cost anything?

Nothing he has feels very OP by itself, but he can layer all this stuff to make it very difficult to punish him. Am I going to cancel into fly cancel, let the fly go, cancel into db2, cancel into teleport to get away, stagger the string or just do nothing? Yea all those things have weaknesses but god damn that’s a lot of guessing in Raiden’s favor.

He seems like a very solid character right now. Only complaint I have is some of his hitboxes are a little poor and have trouble connecting where they probably should.

 

[MadPropz101]

Lmao you guys are wild. He’s got relatively safe strings with great reach and start up that can be canceled to bait flawless block punishes (or can go into db2 which requires a different punish) , and you want those strings to be safer and the cancel not to cost anything?

Nothing he has feels very OP by itself, but he can layer all this stuff to make it very difficult to punish him. Am I going to cancel into fly cancel, let the fly go, cancel into db2, cancel into teleport to get away, stagger the string or just do nothing? Yea all those things have weaknesses but god damn that’s a lot of guessing in Raiden’s favor.

He seems like a very solid character right now. Only complaint I have is some of his hitboxes are a little poor and have trouble connecting where they probably should.

In all honesty I don't expect any buffs, but for the love of God his b12 needs to be safe.

 

[kabelfritz]

Lmao you guys are wild. He’s got relatively safe strings with great reach and start up that can be canceled to bait flawless block punishes (or can go into db2 which requires a different punish) , and you want those strings to be safer and the cancel not to cost anything?

Nothing he has feels very OP by itself, but he can layer all this stuff to make it very difficult to punish him. Am I going to cancel into fly cancel, let the fly go, cancel into db2, cancel into teleport to get away, stagger the string or just do nothing? Yea all those things have weaknesses but god damn that’s a lot of guessing in Raiden’s favor.

He seems like a very solid character right now. Only complaint I have is some of his hitboxes are a little poor and have trouble connecting where they probably should.

agree, raiden is such a well-rounded character that we shouldnt be demanding changes right now at all. at least thunder wave could stay the way it is the whole lifespan of the game, with possible "buffs" through nerfs of other charactrers....

 

[f24]

Lmao you guys are wild. He’s got relatively safe strings with great reach and start up that can be canceled to bait flawless block punishes (or can go into db2 which requires a different punish) , and you want those strings to be safer and the cancel not to cost anything?

Nothing he has feels very OP by itself, but he can layer all this stuff to make it very difficult to punish him. Am I going to cancel into fly cancel, let the fly go, cancel into db2, cancel into teleport to get away, stagger the string or just do nothing? Yea all those things have weaknesses but god damn that’s a lot of guessing in Raiden’s favor.

He seems like a very solid character right now. Only complaint I have is some of his hitboxes are a little poor and have trouble connecting where they probably should.

To be fair the the buffs you quoted for were asked for by one guy. I have my wish list above, none of which relate to making him stupid good. Just minor quality of life changes I would like, but don’t need. I think Raiden is massively downplayed in all of these week 1 tierlists, but I’m still allowed to have desires for some things I would like.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

HELP
I have a problem with one brutality, the backthrow one , it says to hold the L1(LB)(throw button) while throwong backwards but nothing hapened....
HELP

 

[f24]

HELP
I have a problem with one brutality, the backthrow one , it says to hold the L1(LB)(throw button) while throwong backwards but nothing hapened....
HELP

Yeah it’s because the brutalities for raiden are wrong. I’m pretty sure the back throw brutality is only in Raijin variation

 

[MKF30]

I loved the guy who said "relatively safe strings" lmao...big difference between relatively and flat out SAFE, just saying lol. He's still a fun character to use, but don't expect to see any Raiden's at big tourneys if any.

 

[kabelfritz]

HELP
I have a problem with one brutality, the backthrow one , it says to hold the L1(LB)(throw button) while throwong backwards but nothing hapened....
HELP

it works only when you ave the db3 buff on in raijin

 

[Swoops]

I loved the guy who said "relatively safe strings" lmao...big difference between relatively and flat out SAFE, just saying lol. He's still a fun character to use, but don't expect to see any Raiden's at big tourneys if any.

There is a difference. But I use the qualifier "relatively" because context is everything. If something is negative -6 or -7 it only punishable by a rare 6f D1 which only gives the opponent a turn. -7 is definitely less forgiving and some characters have KB punishes, but if a -7 move (B1) has a follow up in the string that can be also be special canceled into the numerous options I spelled out above, reacting with a 7f punish is way harder in a real match scenario.

So...
F32 is -6 , hard knockdown with a whopping 44 frames of hit advantage
243 is -3, good special cancelable string with a low in it. Starts with a high but not as big of a deal as people make that seem
B31 is -6 with crazy pushback, huge range low starter
B1 by itself is -7, but can be spaced and has active frames to potentially make it as good as -4
B12 by itself I admit is not good at -9 and a high to boot, but see all the options above
121 is there and basic but -4, 12 by itself -6
321 is kinda whack but it's there and +1 (I wouldn't mind this move being fixed lol)
F4 is a half screen mid button and its only -3

Just doesn't come off as unsafe to me. Sorry I'm not trying to grief or make it seem like we can't have complaints or wish lists, but I think time can be better used in figuring how to make those things work as Raiden still has a lot of tools that other characters just don't. Maybe I'm talking out of my ass but it seems like he could be a pretty solid character as the meta develops.

EDIT Nvm I'm stupid I forgot about NRS' patching habits , this character sucks forget everything I just typed out.

 

[MKF30]

There is a difference. But I use the qualifier "relatively" because context is everything. If something is negative -6 or -7 it only punishable by a rare 6f D1 which only gives the opponent a turn. -7 is definitely less forgiving and some characters have KB punishes, but if a -7 move (B1) has a follow up in the string that can be also be special canceled into the numerous options I spelled out above, reacting with a 7f punish is way harder in a real match scenario.

So...
F32 is -6 , hard knockdown with a whopping 44 frames of hit advantage
243 is -3, good special cancelable string with a low in it. Starts with a high but not as big of a deal as people make that seem
B31 is -6 with crazy pushback, huge range low starter
B1 by itself is -7, but can be spaced and has active frames to potentially make it as good as -4
B12 by itself I admit is not good at -9 and a high to boot, but see all the options above
121 is there and basic but -4, 12 by itself -6
321 is kinda whack but it's there and +1 (I wouldn't mind this move being fixed lol)
F4 is a half screen mid button and its only -3

Just doesn't come off as unsafe to me. Sorry I'm not trying to grief or make it seem like we can't have complaints or wish lists, but I think time can be better used in figuring how to make those things work as Raiden still has a lot of tools that other characters just don't. Maybe I'm talking out of my ass but it seems like he could be a pretty solid character as the meta develops.

I see what you're saying dude but If the string can be punished it's unsafe at the end of the day. He has good strings but they could be better. It's fine, I'm just pointing out that relatively unsafe and flat out safe can make a big difference. Plus, of course sometimes online while the netcode is great, any remote lag can make a difference but of course if you're talking just online like with any FG then that window can be more or less forgiving depending on what you're doing of course. I enjoy playing him in Thunder Wave regardless, however if they improved a few of his strings, start ups etc I wouldn't complain lol.

 

[Mandolore1123]

My wishlist:

• lightning strike can amplify on block
• lightning strike safe on block midscreen to full screen, safe on whiff full screen
• bf1 slightly faster
• change electric fly KB from full screen amplified to third amplified electric fly in match

I can get behind this. LIghtning strike has always bugged me. This move and bf1 is supposed to serve a purpose, which is to tell the opponent to stop moving. Respect my options full screen. However, lightning strike being punishable midscreen is a bit too bad I would say. Actually a lightning strike buff is all I’d ask for now. He doesn’t need good frames, he’s a whiff punisher, not really designed to be up close

 

[MKF30]

I hate how certain moves in this game can only be amplified on block or on hit.

 

[Swoops]

Not sure if it’s been brought up before but looks like B31 has a 6-ish frame gap. Was consistently trading with Geras D1

 

[OG Mannimal]

Does anyone else feel like raidens buttons just...suck?

 

[Mandolore1123]

I can get behind this. LIghtning strike has always bugged me. This move and bf1 is supposed to serve a purpose, which is to tell the opponent to stop moving. Respect my options full screen. However, lightning strike being punishable midscreen is a bit too bad I would say. Actually a lightning strike buff is all I’d ask for now. He doesn’t need good frames, he’s a whiff punisher, not really designed to be up close

I take that back, b1 and f3 pls be safer :’( Lightning strike too

 

[MadPropz101]

Does anyone else feel like raidens buttons just...suck?

He has a good arsenal but his frame data needs work, they need to make b12 safe

 

[Mandolore1123]

He has a good arsenal but his frame data needs work, they need to make b12 safe

B1 and f3 should be safer, lightning strike should be safer from full screen to mid screen, maybe a tiny buff in combo damage. B12 is fine I feel.

 

[MadPropz101]

B1 and f3 should be safer, lightning strike should be safer from full screen to mid screen, maybe a tiny buff in combo damage. B12 is fine I feel.

You feel b12 is fine because most people don't know it's punishable, try punishing it in practice and you'll see how easy it is.

 

[Mandolore1123]

You feel b12 is fine because most people don't know it's punishable, try punishing it in practice and you'll see how easy it is.

B12 is unsafe because you have to mix up superman cancels, teleport cancels, and b14 which is mid overhead to prevent people from ducking the second hit and punishing. Therefore it would make sense to make the move unsafe (-9) so people who are looking for it can punish, but once they respect all the options of Raiden, then they will stop pressing buttons after b12

 

[Mandolore1123]

B12 is unsafe because you have to mix up superman cancels, teleport cancels, and b14 which is mid overhead to prevent people from ducking the second hit and punishing. Therefore it would make sense to make the move unsafe (-9) so people who are looking for it can punish, but once they respect all the options of Raiden, then they will stop pressing buttons after b12

I'd also like to add that as long as b12 is mid, high it will forever remain punishable whether it is safe or not. Therefore it is again imperative that the Raiden player establish the options after b12 and make sure the opponent respects them. Not saying my slow brain is able to handle this. That's how I feel after playing Raiden for the week

 

[Gimmick]

I can get behind this. LIghtning strike has always bugged me. This move and bf1 is supposed to serve a purpose, which is to tell the opponent to stop moving. Respect my options full screen. However, lightning strike being punishable midscreen is a bit too bad I would say. Actually a lightning strike buff is all I’d ask for now. He doesn’t need good frames, he’s a whiff punisher, not really designed to be up close

I agree, df2 should be safe, and Raiden will be fine.

If we're being greedy, get rid of the gap between b31 and perhaps make f3 safer

The ugliest thing about Raiden is opponents can breakaway and full combo punish him on his bnbs. I just don't see how that can be fixed.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Agreed on everyone's thoughts with Lightning Strike. If Geras can be -19 on quicksand I don't see why Raiden has to be -29 on a move that takes him almost as long to bring out and has less ways to aim it (albeit occupies a unique part of the screen).

Also, I noticed that after connecting with several of Raiden's enders the opponent is thrown to a spot where a basic df2 will land just next to them which I find puzzling. Some moves like back throw will put them in the perfect spot, though. I guess we're meant to micro step and dash cancel to position this thing?

Lightning Strike is a move I was really excited about using but I feel they went overboard on the bad frames. I've said it before but the exhibition fight between Rewind and Sonicfox shows Raiden with a much faster version of this move that can be amped on block and has way shorter recovery, so I'm convinced it got nerfed because of that match and how Rewind was playing the character, which I disagree with.