Jade General Discussion Thread

[STB Sgt Reed]

The more I play her, the more I love her. I think she's gonna be my co-main to Jax and be the keep away to his rushdown.

The biggest thing that irritates me though is that after a knockdown... I can't use f21, it's like they can just jump through her pole even though it's already crashing toward them and where their jump arc would be. lol

 

[GLoRToR]

It is a half-screen, advancing special that anti-airs and has a KB, and either has better corner push or side switch, depending on the variation.

Made inert by the fact that they can just duck and punish, block and punish or wait for the sideswitch and then yet again make you eat huge damage for doing something that a throw can safely accomplish. Or a jump-over if you can set it up and not get anti-aired.
Know me, I'm not trying to make unreasonable claims or beg for buffs just speaking my mind. If this is how Jade stays and nothing changes about her but some of the top characters get sorted straight, she'll be better for those changes too.
I just feel like she could do so much better with all I'm seeing on the roster from characters who aren't holding.. the.. short end of a stick.

 

[MK9]

There is deff a gap in the pole that misses while they are in the air, almost like the last part of the pole has to hit them while the close part goes through them.

 

[THTB]

Made inert by the fact that they can just duck and punish, block and punish or wait for the sideswitch and then yet again make you eat huge damage for doing something that a throw can safely accomplish. Or a jump-over if you can set it up and not get anti-aired.
Know me, I'm not trying to make unreasonable claims or beg for buffs just speaking my mind. If this is how Jade stays and nothing changes about her but some of the top characters get sorted straight, she'll be better for those changes too.
I just feel like she could do so much better with all I'm seeing on the roster from characters who aren't holding.. the.. short end of a stick.

If nitro kick is forcing people to neutral duck and waste moments trying to bait, the move is doing its job, especially after I already landed one. She already has the range to force the opponent to block. If my back is to the wall, and I land a hit, I can EX nitro kick. That's where the side switch comes into play.

Also, unrelated sidenote, Jade's hop punch is really funny in that the hitbox is literally the entire staff.

 

[GLoRToR]

If nitro kick is forcing people to neutral duck and waste moments trying to bait, the move is doing its job, especially after I already landed one. She already has the range to force the opponent to block. If my back is to the wall, and I land a hit, I can EX nitro kick. That's where the side switch comes into play.

Also, unrelated sidenote, Jade's hop punch is really funny in that the hitbox is literally the entire staff.

There are moves like Baraka's F44 that are mids and do better what Shadow Kick does. Also, isn't the side-switch negative to the point where even if you do switch sides if it gets blocked they can jump over you and send you straight back to the corner?
An expensive venture to spend a bar only to take more damage.

 

[THTB]

There are moves like Baraka's F44 that are mids and do better what Shadow Kick does. Also, isn't the side-switch negative to the point where even if you do switch sides if it gets blocked they can jump over you and send you straight back to the corner?

I can always back away and gain space. After it hits, especially in a combo, you shouldn't be that close to the wall. A step back will get you away from that situation.

 

[GLoRToR]

I can always back away and gain space. After it hits, especially in a combo, you shouldn't be that close to the wall. A step back will get you away from that situation.

How do you step back if they block the second hit and you're negative? You aren't reading my question lol

 

[THTB]

How do you step back if they block the second hit and you're negative? You aren't reading my question lol

If they block the nitro kick in the first place, up yo read game.

I'm kidding on that, but nitro kick used properly in the situation is not getting blocked, due to it being used after confirming a hit.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

If nitro kick is forcing people to neutral duck and waste moments trying to bait, the move is doing its job, especially after I already landed one. She already has the range to force the opponent to block. If my back is to the wall, and I land a hit, I can EX nitro kick. That's where the side switch comes into play.

Also, unrelated sidenote, Jade's hop punch is really funny in that the hitbox is literally the entire staff.

This is what I've been trying to tell people about Scorpion's teleport. Same situation here... if Jade's shadow kick is making you neutral duck or just sit there blocking instead of playing neutral then it's a very strong tool that definitely doesn't need a buff.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

If they block the nitro kick in the first place, up yo read game.

I'm kidding on that, but nitro kick used properly in the situation is not getting blocked, due to it being used after confirming a hit.

I read this with that fancey comercial voice that tells you to get the new hot lawnmower or whatever LmAo

 

[Wrath0594]

• F2 would be 20F startup, down from 28.

Breh, you’ve just turned her into an MkX character. That’s unseeable!
You want an overhead starter they can’t block on reaction AND a safe special?!

You sounded so reasonable until the wishlist!
XD

 

[MK9]

She really not that good, you can also air cancel after get hit with f2 and I’m pretty sure after df4 if you meter it. So just duck, and the most u eat is one hit.

 

[Wrath0594]

This is what I've been trying to tell people about Scorpion's teleport. Same situation here... if Jade's shadow kick is making you neutral duck or just sit there blocking instead of playing neutral then it's a very strong tool that definitely doesn't need a buff.

So you’re saying that you think Jade shadow kick is as strong as Scorpion teleport in neutral? Really? You’re seriously suggesting this?

Jade.
Shadow.
Kick.
=
Scorpion.
Tele.
Port.

Do I have that right?

Because if so...

HOLY SHIT, WHAT’S GOING ON HERE?!?!? YALL NEED JESUS


Ain’t no way any real human just said that. My eyes must be malfunctioning.

 

[GLoRToR]

Breh, you’ve just turned her into an MkX character. That’s unseeable!
You want an overhead starter they can’t block on reaction AND a safe special?!

You sounded so reasonable until the wishlist!
XD

I'll let you go back, quote the part yourself which you omitted where I say this is not reasonable and then apologise.
My wishlist is literally a response to the OP question.

I WANT NRS TO FIX HER.
I'm not nrs, I don't have the game's balance charts in front of me to see what to change.

 

[GLoRToR]

If they block the nitro kick in the first place, up yo read game.

I'm kidding on that, but nitro kick used properly in the situation is not getting blocked, due to it being used after confirming a hit.

I should buy a lottery ticket, I knew you'd come with the "you just have to use it properly" card.
It's a bad tool that you can make some use of but it's still a bad tool.

There are NORMALS in the game that do the same thing, and more, better, for way less risk.
Subzero f4 anyone?

 

[MK9]

Explain how you think her kick is so good, people fall for it, yes. As a punish it’s great but all you need to do is low blk vs her.

 

[Wrath0594]

I'll let you go back, quote the part yourself which you omitted where I say this is not reasonable and then apologise.
My wishlist is literally a response to the OP question.

I WANT NRS TO FIX HER.
I'm not nrs, I don't have the game's balance charts in front of me to see what to change.

If it’s not reasonable why say or wish for it?

“I wish Johnny had a 1 frame fullscreen mid that was unblockable and did 1k dmg! DON’T CRITIQUE MY IDEAS, ITS JUST WISHFUL THINKING.”

C’mon, dude. I hope yall get buffs, but that shit was crazy talk, and you don’t need to get hostile when someone calls out that out as crazy. Your “dream” should be for her to be balanced, not busted.

I want them to fix her too, we’re after the same thing. But I don’t want them going full MkX on the low tiers and launching them into Godhood, then rolling it back, then rebuffing, etc. Just tweak things a tiiiiiny little bit and the game’ll be alright.

 

[GLoRToR]

If it’s not reasonable why say or wish for it?

“I wish Johnny had a 1 frame fullscreen mid that was unblockable and did 1k dmg! DON’T CRITIQUE MY IDEAS, ITS JUST WISHFUL THINKING.”

C’mon, dude. I hope yall get buffs, but that shit was crazy talk, and you don’t need to get hostile when someone calls out that out as crazy. Your “dream” should be for her to be balanced, not busted.

I want them to fix her too, we’re after the same thing. But I don’t want them going full MkX on the low tiers and launching them into Godhood, then rolling it back, then rebuffing, etc. Just tweak things a tiiiiiny little bit and the game’ll be alright.

You need to understand that when someone asks what all you'd change about her, people who extensively lab the game look at all that's wrong about a character and then make a list of POTENTIAL changes.
All of which solve one issue or another, work in one matchup but not another, and definitely not a good idea to do all of those at the same time, or some combinations of them.

Game balance is difficult. I can tell you what's wrong about a character in comparison to another character like Jade fails against Liu because he can shut her down both at range and upclose, his risk is minimal because of her damage, and his reward is colossal because of his damage and the fact that he shuts her down.

I'm not NRS, I can't balance Jade for that matchup but I can still point in the direction of what feels wrong.

A list like this simply addresses these things, and it was too late for me to elaborate which change would help which matchup.
Clearly some of them, and many in pairs, would make Jax's life more of a hell than it already is against her.

 

[Wrath0594]

You need to understand that when someone asks what all you'd change about her, people who extensively lab the game look at all that's wrong about a character and then make a list of POTENTIAL changes.
All of which solve one issue or another, work in one matchup but not another, and definitely not a good idea to do all of those at the same time, or some combinations of them.

Game balance is difficult. I can tell you what's wrong about a character in comparison to another character like Jade fails against Liu because he can shut her down both at range and upclose, his risk is minimal because of her damage, and his reward is colossal because of his damage and the fact that he shuts her down.

I'm not NRS, I can't balance Jade for that matchup but I can still point in the direction of what feels wrong.

A list like this simply addresses these things, and it was too late for me to elaborate which change would help which matchup.
Clearly some of them, and many in pairs, would make Jax's life more of a hell than it already is against her.

Again, not denying any of the issues you talk about. I agree with you on pretty much every problem Jade has, an when people ask me why she bad, I refer to a lot of your posts.

My point was only that some of those changes went from balance, to crazy op tier. If someone asked me what I’d change about Johnny it would be hitbox bugs, KB requirements, and if I’m really reaching- making his f44 12 or 11 frames down from 14.

A lot of your suggestions, especially the overhead change have nothing to do with matchups, the changes are just straight up overpowered. Idk where the matchup tangent is coming from. A 20f safe overhead combo starter is broken vs everyone. That should never be a “POTENTIAL” change. She doesn’t need that because no one needs that.

You’re getting too locked into argument mode here, and I get it because there are plenty of idiots on these forums, but there’s no reason to get this defensive. Most of your post feels like it’s directed at an imagined opponent and has nothing to do with what I said. I’m not coming in here going “LMFAO JADE DOWNPLAYERS” am I? I never said “Jade doesn’t need buffs” did I? I’ve been arguing with plenty of people for the opposite. Let’s not eat our own, by literally demanding apologies and telling people our ideas are beyond reproach?

:/

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

So you’re saying that you think Jade shadow kick is as strong as Scorpion teleport in neutral? Really? You’re seriously suggesting this?

Jade.
Shadow.
Kick.
=
Scorpion.
Tele.
Port.

Do I have that right?

Because if so...

HOLY SHIT, WHAT’S GOING ON HERE?!?!? YALL NEED JESUS


Ain’t no way any real human just said that. My eyes must be malfunctioning.

That was me referencing a similar instance, not that they 100% = each other. lol

Shadow kick doesn't need a buff.

Lot's of ppl don't understand why scorpion's teleport is so good. If Jade's shadow kick is enough to command someone to surrender neutral then that's your example of why teleport is too strong.

 

[GLoRToR]

Again, not denying any of the issues you talk about. I agree with you on pretty much every problem Jade has, an when people ask me why she bad, I refer to a lot of your posts.

My point was only that some of those changes went from balance, to crazy op tier. If someone asked me what I’d change about Johnny it would be hitbox bugs, KB requirements, and if I’m really reaching- making his f44 12 or 11 frames down from 14.

A lot of your suggestions, especially the overhead change have nothing to do with matchups, the changes are just straight up overpowered. Idk where the matchup tangent is coming from. A 20f safe overhead combo starter is broken vs everyone. That should never be a “POTENTIAL” change.

If they give her a bit of combo damage and minorly trim some negative frames on block similar to Kitana’s changes, she’ll be fine.

You’re getting too locked into argument mode here, and I get it because there are plenty of idiots on these forums, but there’s no reason to get this defensive. I’m not coming in here going “LMFAO JADE DOWNPLAYERS” am I? Let’s not eat our own.

Do you understand that her overhead is i28? Also I never said the overhead should be safe. It's that f2 is literally not a threat. At all. To anyone. Ever. There is no "conditioning" involved, you can literally just block low against Jade all the way in and then all you have to do is if she jumps you take a step and block standing, then when she lands you can move again a bit while she recovers. Once you're inside f2 range, the i28, you just block low and react to the overhead.

Jade is not threatening and she has no options which lead to her being threatening.
A character like Baraka vs Liu, it says FIGHT they are at 50% chance of winning vs each other. Jade starts from 30% chance. She works uphill.

The changes I proposed are just a list of things wrong about her, some of them mutually exclusive.
That's why they're crazy op tier.

I'm talking about how bad almost every single tools he has is.
Hell, she even has the worst parry in the game at i12 where Sonya has i7 and Jade's parry window is short, can't be held and leads to nothing. On a successful parry you deal minimal damage and reset neutral. For your huge ass risk.

If Jade's shadow kick is enough to command someone to surrender neutral

It isn't. It's full combo punishable. All you have to do against Jade is block low and react to her overhead and she'll have NOTHING except for throws to open you up. Her zoning is negative on block, to the point where Liu can just zone her safely because he's in literal no risk of being hit by a few of her projectiles on the way in. Same for Baraka. Just to name a few.

I summed this up before:
Her problem is how unsafe and slow all her frames are compared to how safe and fast everyone else is, and that she doesn't even have proper punishment damage so she's literally a sitting duck and no threat to anyone.

Everything else is just talk.

 

[Wrath0594]

That was me referencing a similar instance, not that they 100% = each other. lol

Shadow kick doesn't need a buff.

Lot's of ppl don't understand why scorpion's teleport is so good. If Jade's shadow kick is enough to command someone to surrender neutral then that's your example of why teleport is too strong.

That’s the thing, Jade SK doesn’t stop me from jumping. It doesn’t stop me from throwing projectiles. It doesn’t foce me to give Jade free jump in mixups. It also doesn’t combo. It never takes away my neutral game the same way Liu fly kick doesn’t take it, or Johnny shadow kick, or Raiden fly. It’s so far from Scorp teleport that the fact that you compared them is insane, bro.

Do you understand that her overhead is i28? Also I never said the overhead should be safe. l

Ok, go back and look at your post. You want her mid special to be -4. Which is safe. She can CANCEL THE OVERHEAD INTO SPECIAL MOVES.

I can’t take you seriously anymore. Your responses are so out of proportion with my posts I’m wondering if you’re even reading them. Or if you’re just so used to spouting off your same Jade arguments that you just can’t stop to see if they’re even relevant to the topic here. This is seriously depressing since before I was under the impression you had good ideas.

Edited to avoid a double post.

 

[GLoRToR]

That’s the thing, Jade SK doesn’t stop me from jumping. It doesn’t stop me from throwing projectiles. It doesn’t foce me to give Jade free jump in mixups. It also doesn’t combo. It never takes away my neutral game the same way Liu fly kick doesn’t take it, or Johnny shadow kick, or Raiden fly. It’s so far from Scorp teleport that the fact that you compared them is insane, bro.

^ This.

 

[GLoRToR]

I can’t take you seriously anymore. Your responses are so out of proportion with my posts I’m wondering if you’re even reading them. Or if you’re just so used to spouting off your same Jade arguments that you just can’t stop to see if they’re even relevant to the topic here.

Edited to avoid a double post.

You seem to conveniently omit parts of my narrative to suit your needs.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

That’s the thing, Jade SK doesn’t stop me from jumping. It doesn’t stop me from throwing projectiles. It doesn’t foce me to give Jade free jump in mixups. It also doesn’t combo. It never takes away my neutral game the same way Liu fly kick doesn’t take it, or Johnny shadow kick, or Raiden fly. It’s so far from Scorp teleport that the fact that you compared them is insane, bro.

Then you didn't read the conversation I was quoting. The posters were saying it does. And to an extent (not to that of scorp's tele) it does. I was piggybacking scorp's tele on it to make two points at once. I said the situation that was being discussed was similar to what I've been telling ppl about scorpion. smh