Reo's MK 11 Tier list

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I simply posted one because now we're posting lists.
Feel free to disagree, but if you want to debate Jade with me, please don't claim that she has mixups.

Maybe mixups is the wrong term but many characters have mix off number of hits. Obviously not 50/50 but a guess none the less. Liu Kang has a similar playstyle with conditioning F4/F43/F43U3 making them respect it. If you understand what I'm saying.

 

[Arqwart]

Edit: removed reply and comment about Jade as he already answered it in the above post which I didnt see before posting.

As for the thread topic, I'm curious why Frost is in B tier. Any Frost players wanna chime in with more detail on her problems? I have very little understanding of her as I've fought literally only 1 online.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Only down to a B tier? This game seems to be well balanced. REO has said he believes the game is well balanced.

 

[Geoffmeister]

I mean, I think Sonya is hella strong; but her mix isn’t safe. Both options are punishable.

On a read of the second mix.. That's why I refer to it as mix-mix.. The second mix is, Energy Blast (which is unreactable 12f safe Amped), or follow-up?
This situation is pretty strong, and coupled with her low-option (in the same string), it becomes a footsie, mixup and oki string... might as well turn your brain off. =/

And not unlike Erron, she does fine at mid-max range... not gonna say I know everything already... but you don't need to study rocket science to know this stuff is bs and will dominate at tourneys... and MK is just gonna look like a cheap "mixup"-game..

 

[Demon_0]

WAY too early for this.

 

[Pan1cMode]

On a read of the second mix.. That's why I refer to it as mix-mix.. The second mix is, Energy Blast (which is unreactable 12f safe Amped), or follow-up?
This situation is pretty strong, and coupled with her low-option (in the same string), it becomes a footsie, mixup and oki string... might as well turn your brain off. =/

And not unlike Erron, she does fine at mid-max range... not gonna say I know everything already... but you don't need to study rocket science to know this stuff is bs and will dominate at tourneys... and MK is just gonna look like a cheap "mixup"-game..

So she can only convert off the low with her ex gun in the corner, and if you block low, you can krushing blow d2 the projectile as it hits high.

So no, she does not have safe mix.

In footsies the majority of her spacing actually comes from her great low string b3u4. b1 has limited range so she needs to get the initial hit so she can jail into her mix. Using b1 in footsies will pretty much just get you poked.

Sonya is an incredibly strong character with a great projectile, great anti-airs, great damage and strong 50/50s. She does not however have “safe mix”.

 

[Geoffmeister]

@Pan1cMode

Midscreen, the hits won't connect for combo damage, but she still got a safe mix from it.

I'm aware the projectile is punishable, only if she so CHOOSES to special cancel into that, she also can CHOOSE to follow-up the string, stuffing the D2 (or better punish).
So let's say you realize this, this also applies to the overhead string.. there you get a launch for that mixup (and get a launch for guessing the mid/high)... but don't tell me she isn't safe when the opponent blocked a low/overhead correctly and didn't get a punish... CAUSE THAT IS THE DEFINITON OF A SAFE MIX.

You guess the OH/low mix, then you guess your punish potential mix. Mix... Mix... SAFE.

And that in a game, where the inherent mix-up is either Mid or Throw, which is GREAT, because it enforces more neutral play.. but not for Sonya. Sonya don't care.

 

[Snake Sound 222]

Not going to lie, I’m a little worried about seeing Baraka so close to the top. I'm glad that he's looking like he'll be a good kharacter, but I don't want NRS to think he's S tier instead of A or A+ and give him unnecessary nerfs.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Fucking lol... so, the top players left this site why?

They're literally doing the same thing as the "scrubs"

And if I was gonna make a week 1 tier list... that one is wrong af. lol

 

[Histrionik]

My problem with early tier lists like this is that a tier list should be constructed based on matchup data.

It’s too early to have concrete data about matchups based on sets played by character experts. We don’t have any character experts yet. Much less matchup data from them.

 

[Qwark28]

Fucking lol... so, the top players left this site why?

They're literally doing the same thing as the "scrubs"

And if I was gonna make a week 1 tier list... that one is wrong af. lol

it's probably not healthy to babyrage so much over people calling sub top tier on twitter to the point where you make multiple status updates and a post like this hours later.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

it's probably not healthy to babyrage so much over people calling sub top tier on twitter to the point where you make multiple status updates and a post like this hours later.

1 status update =/= multiple. Might wanna look up the definition of multiple.

It's more... calling out the bullshit. I don't even play him often because 50/50 sub isn't my sub. I'm just tired of before or at release of every of the last 3 mks, there's always a let's nerf sub zero brigade typically led by the same type of players.

But go ahead and be butthurt people are calling out your elite club.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Safe-Mix-Mix-Repeat can go (Sonya)

Safe mix?? She doesn't have safe mix! Her B123 ( is high, OH, Mid and very unsafe) it's also her only launcher for combo so all that damage is linked to the unsafe overhead.
Her B14 is safe but not hit confirmable so minimal damage. Both B14/B12 start high at 9f so it's easily stuffed up close.

Then her only safe overhead B234 has a long gap in it and it's reactible both on overhead and fake out. It can be s1/D1 to stop the safe overhead that doesn't lead to popup.

Her 333D+3 doesn't come out on block so no overhead there. Her only real safe mix is a low. She does have mix-up and is very strong but not overpowered. It's a week in and people are asking for Nerfs before learning matchups.
Not directed at you moreso the community:
Same shit different game. The let's Nerf every character I don't main and buff my main into S tier mentality has to go. People being jealous of other characters tools has to go. If your character has fundamental flaws get buffs a month in but don't Nerf characters just because you feel they are better than yours.

 

[Shirakani]

How in the absolute hell is Scorpion and Sub-Zero S tier?!?

Did Scorpion magically get Misery Blade+Demon Dash and Sub-Zero get Rising Ice+Ground Ice in a tournament legal variation while I wasn't looking??

 

[Blade4693]

REO is the f** man but Kotal in A+? I have to watch this to see his reasoning for that placement. I truly value his opinions when it comes to MK so ill at least hear him out lol

EDIT

Ok so I watched and he doesn't actually have Kotal in a+ lol but looks like but my Kahn boys are sitting in B tier. I can always play Baraka again though, I love that character and had a blast with him in the beta but for now I want to make Kotal work.

 

[Brown Cow 54]

I still think it’s way too early for this no matter who you are. In a game with multiple new mechanics no one has this much knowledge yet. Especially flawless block is going to expose some characters strings and could totally change everything if used at a high level.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

First of all
LIU Kang
Second of all
Liu is S tier

 

[Edmund]

My thing is that I don’t want buffs or nerfs to impact how a character plays or was intended

For example, i know I sound like I’m beating a dead horse, kitana losing her fan combos. I’d love them to be in and she still do only like 25 damage total in combos

By the end of the life cycle i always go through the motions wiTh characters and am satisfied, but this games popularity is high right now so balancing at first is important to me

 

[Pan1cMode]

@Pan1cMode

Midscreen, the hits won't connect for combo damage, but she still got a safe mix from it.

I'm aware the projectile is punishable, only if she so CHOOSES to special cancel into that, she also can CHOOSE to follow-up the string, stuffing the D2 (or better punish).
So let's say you realize this, this also applies to the overhead string.. there you get a launch for that mixup (and get a launch for guessing the mid/high)... but don't tell me she isn't safe when the opponent blocked a low/overhead correctly and didn't get a punish... CAUSE THAT IS THE DEFINITON OF A SAFE MIX.

You guess the OH/low mix, then you guess your punish potential mix. Mix... Mix... SAFE.

And that in a game, where the inherent mix-up is either Mid or Throw, which is GREAT, because it enforces more neutral play.. but not for Sonya. Sonya don't care.

So what you’re saying is that you personally can’t react to it and punish it so it’s safe.

I’m not sure what to tell you.

She either cancels and gets the combo (corner only) which is punishable. She cancels into leg grab (which is punishable) or goes into overhead (which is punishable).

Like what do you want? Each option is -14/-19

If they go for leg grab on block they get a whopping 80 damage and risk full combo punish. If they go for energy rings they get d2 and waste a bar of offensive meter.

It’s a 50/50. It is strong. It is not safe.

 

[GLoRToR]

My thing is that I don’t want buffs or nerfs to impact how a character plays or was intended

For example, i know I sound like I’m beating a dead horse, kitana losing her fan combos. I’d love them to be in and she still do only like 25 damage total in combos

By the end of the life cycle i always go through the motions wiTh characters and am satisfied, but this games popularity is high right now so balancing at first is important to me

I agree, especially the last part. Nobody cares if the game will be good by next Christmas if everyone's given up on it by July.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

S Tier : Erron Black, Geras, Scorpion, Sonya Blade, Sub Zero

A+ Tier: Baraka, Cassie Cage, Jax, Lui Kang, Noob Saibot

A Tier: Cetrion, Jacqui, Kabal, Kollector, Scarlet

A- Tier: Jade, Johnny Cage, Kano, Kitana, Kung Lao, Raiden

B Tier: D' Vorah, Frost, Kotal Kahn, Shao Kahn

Here is my edit of the tier list. Just keep in mind there is no possible way to accurately determine tiers this early.

A+ Tier : (Very Strong Toolset but not broke)
Note: strongest tools in the game.
Erron Black, Geras, Scorpion, Sonya Blade, Sub Zero

A Tier: (Strong All around)
Note: very strong toolsets with only a few weaknesses.
Baraka, Cassie Cage, Noob, Jax, Jaqcui, Lui Kang, Kabal, Cetrion.

B+ Tier: (Good Tools)
basically mid tier, have decent tools but work harder to get that win against high tiers.
Kitana, Kollector, Scarlet, Jade, Johnny.

B Tier: Good but has minor issues [Needs Adjusted]
note: this tier needs certain things fixed to be at level ground with Top 5 toolsets. Frame data, unsafe normals, wiffing moves, long recovery ect.
Kung Lao, Raiden, Frost, Kotal Kahn, Kano, Shao Kahn.

B-/C Tier: (Ok with problems, needs fixes, otherwise ok)
note: this tier has almost no chance to compete against high tier tools.

D' Vorah.

Subject to change as matchup knowledge is discovered.
I moved Kabal up because he has zero gaps and not FB'd so that's strong and has legit 50/50 with 9f mid into mix and full screen Fatal, fast pokes and good tools close and far with very good zoning.

I removed S Tier because it doesn't exist in this game. Characters are very much toned down compared to all other mk titles.

 

[MagicMan357]

FAIL

 

[Shirakani]

I removed S Tier because it doesn't exist in this game. Characters are very much toned down compared to all other mk titles.

Agreed on this. There are no 'Dragon Fire Liu Kangs' or equivalent. THAT was the definition of S tier, or maybe Brokenly OP tier.

 

[Gamer68]

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these placements end up being very close even a month from now, but yeah... this is too early. There are still characters being downplayed and variations being slept on, so that pretty much means there's a lot of tech we haven't seen yet. I just don't really see the point of making a tier list this early anyway.

I do like hearing REO's opinions, though.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

The last thing we need are nerfs, there are still alot of unused moves that could change things.
This isnt mk9 or mkx type balance no characters seems broken.

Playing NBA 2k for years when the "top 2k" players complained the developers listened and now it's the most unfun boring crap let's not do this to mk11 please