Match-up Discussion Ermac Matchup chart by Metzos

[Metzos]

I dont doubt your knowledge, but could you provide an oppinion/explanation to why the Smoke match is 5-5. Personally i have only played this matchup a few times, but i got destroyed. Mainly because im sloppy and most damage comes from me trying to jump, or trying to move in with smoke towards, which can be picked up by tele-slam. Bad times. Every mistake on smokes part is 30-50% damage done, and smoke has to work extremely hard to put pressure on, while ermac can just throw you full screen and stay safe!

Whats your dealings with this match, what do you see as ermacs main weaknesses and strengths when fighting smoke? Thanks

You said it yourself Because you jump. You dont jump against Ermac. Easy 34% combo from AA standing 1. The reason i put this MU even is cause you cant zone Smoke from fullscreen. One whiffed TKP and he can punish you with smoke bomb. Also you cant punish, at least from what i ve seen, Smoke's bomb up close with any of Ermac's normal moves. Plus his D1 is one of the best in the game in my opinion.


EDIT: Also projectiles against Smoke are out of the question ofc.

 

[Metzos]

Yea I agree with an even mu against kitana. Her range is ridiculous and to be honest neither side can make a mistake or they will be punished severely. The one thing that edges it out more towards kitana tho is her rush down and chip dealing damage. She also is crazy when it comes to gaining meter. An ermac plater has to play it safe. A bad jump in could be fatal

A bad jump in could also be fatal from her part too m8. Ermac can deal a 34% dmg from an AA standing 1. Plus i believe he can deal more cheap dmg than Kitana midscreen.

 

[G4S KT]

why is quan chi 3-7?

 

[KamikazeJD]

A bad jump in could also be fatal from her part too m8. Ermac can deal a 34% dmg from an AA standing 1. Plus i believe he can deal more cheap dmg than Kitana in midscreen.

yea I agree an untimely jump in from either player can lead to huge damage. It takes a patient player to beat kitana as ermac. To be honest I dont believe you can truly outzone her, nor can u rush her down.
As for kabal. I dont think this is a terrible match up as I once believed. I played reo at dev and I played michaelangelo at dromstruction. Iagfb can pin you down but dash into d3 works wonders for ducking the projectiles but it also can send a nomad dash running right through you or stops it on contact with d3. Its more a 6-4 kabal match up. You have to work harder than kabal to win, but you are equipped to do it.

 

[Error]

why is quan chi 3-7?

It must be that hax thing where Ermac grabs Quan Chi out of his portal with Lift.
"Get over here!"

 

[Killphil]

This is all fine and dandy. I just have one concern. The lack of consistency among these match up charts is a cause for concern. Tom Brady says the sub/ermac match up is 5.5 in SUB's favor...no reasons given. I still think its in Ermac's favor until proven otherwise. But according to Tom's sub chart the sub/ermac matchup is the opposite of this one..

 

[Metzos]

This is all fine and dandy. I just have one concern. The lack of consistency among these match up charts is a cause for concern. Tom Brady says the sub/ermac match up is 5.5 in SUB's favor...no reasons given. I still think its in Ermac's favor until proven otherwise. But according to Tom's sub chart the sub/ermac matchup is the opposite of this one..

Yeah i know what you mean. I asked him with a PM and he told me the same thing and when i asked him why he didnt respond. Well i guess he has his reasons about this MU.

 

[Metzos]

why is quan chi 3-7?

Well after playing about a great number of matches against Hidan's QC we came to the conclusion that he cant do absolutely nothing against Ermac midscreen. And even if he comes close he is only a threat if he has bars. His trance even when done ALMOST fullscreen can be punished by dash and lift on block. He only excells against Ermac fullscreen with his skulls and upclose when he has bars.

 

[Pagan]

This is all fine and dandy. I just have one concern. The lack of consistency among these match up charts is a cause for concern. Tom Brady says the sub/ermac match up is 5.5 in SUB's favor...no reasons given. I still think its in Ermac's favor until proven otherwise. But according to Tom's sub chart the sub/ermac matchup is the opposite of this one..

I'm more inclined to believe TB on this. People don't fully appreciate just how good Sub's rush down is and if Sub and Ermac trade in the zoning battle his snow ball or ice beam is at least going to give him a slide. Also Sub has armor on his slide. Ermac only has armor on his X ray. Ice clone shuts down a lot of my shenanigans. I'm sure people will disagree but hey that's why we discuss this stuff in forums amarite?

 

[Sasuga]

First of all, thanks for the matchup chart.

On the Rain matchup: I think it's about 5-5. At jump range, Ermac is in favor. He can punish lightning with TKP; Rain cannot punish TKP at jump range. Up close, Rain is in favor but it's difficult to get there. Teleport is unsafe so you'll have to dash-block your way in. Once you're there Ermac is toast.

However, if one of the two has favor, I'd say it's Ermac.

 

[Krayzie]

First glance at the list here.

He loses to Jax, is even with Mileena and if its not even with Kitana, he loses that match...

I'll give more input on this later. Time to get ready for SCR!

 

[Metzos]

First glance at the list here.

He loses to Jax, is even with Mileena and if its not even with Kitana, he loses that match...

Plz do K.Bone cause i cant understand why he loses from Kitana. About Jax as i said in a previous post in the end its about the player mostly.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

As a Tsung main, I can honestly say that Ermac is one of Shang's easiest match-ups. Not only can Shang outzone Ermac but he can also pressure him and there is little Ermac can do about it because he does not have any armored moves besides X-ray. This is almost definitely a 6-4 match-up in Shang's favor.

 

[Metzos]

As a Tsung main, I can honestly say that Ermac is one of Shang's easiest match-ups. Not only can Shang outzone Ermac but he can also pressure him and there is little Ermac can do about it because he does not have any armored moves besides X-ray. This is almost definitely a 6-4 match-up in Shang's favor.

You can outzone me with skulls which can be punished on reaction with teleports to setup ? Up close you probably have the adv but midscreen and fullscreen i dont think so m8.


EDIT: Also at TKP range Ermac destroys Shang Tsung.

 

[THTB]

Idk about vs Reptile anymore. It definitely doesn't seem in Reptile's favor. Yeah, Reptile is the one character that forces Ermac to be cautious from further out than most characters. He still controls that area much better than Reptile can due to Reptile's lack of speed otherwise. And if Reptile's hit with push, Ermac is easily at advantage. Fullscreen is pretty much Ermac's game. It's more even than anything.

Baraka is even, IMO, at least. Obviously, up close Baraka's +frames are pretty lol. But honestly, he can play from just outside of push range and do just fine. Max-range charge is just outside of push max range just about. He pretty much can spend that time throwing sparks for meter and baiting counter pushes.

 

[Metzos]

Idk about vs Reptile anymore. It definitely doesn't seem in Reptile's favor. Yeah, Reptile is the one character that forces Ermac to be cautious from further out than most characters. He still controls that area much better than Reptile can due to Reptile's lack of speed otherwise. And if Reptile's hit with push, Ermac is easily at advantage. Fullscreen is pretty much Ermac's game. It's more even than anything.

Baraka is even, IMO, at least. Obviously, up close Baraka's +frames are pretty lol. But honestly, he can play from just outside of push range and do just fine. Max-range charge is just outside of push max range just about. He pretty much can spend that time throwing sparks for meter and baiting counter pushes.

I disagree. Reptile fullscreen against Ermac is much more efficient with his acid spits and the use of force bulls to close the gap between him and Ermac. Now yeah i know that if i block your dash you are screwed for 36% of your life at best. But its very easy to close the gap with safe options to say the least and come mid and close range which can give me troubles.

About Baraka. I really dont know. His charge got buffed ok. Tbh i didnt know he had +frames moves, and by + frames you mean on block right ? If so then i have to look more into that. Other than that i can just keep him fullscreen and projectile the hell out of him. His projectiles if i remember correctly have slow start up like JC's so they can be punished by teleport.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

You can outzone me with skulls which can be punished on reaction with teleports to setup ? Up close you probably have the adv but midscreen and fullscreen i dont think so m8.


EDIT: Also at TKP range Ermac destroys Shang Tsung.

You cannot teleport on reaction to a skull. You have to know that a skull is coming and teleport ahead of time, which is very risky. While the start up of all the skull moves is pretty slow, they recover fast. Also, Ermac does not destroy Shang at tele push range. It is actually an even trade. If Shang blocks a push, then he gets free chip damage off of a ground skull. I would also say that the telepush isn't that big. So what if it lands? If Shang lands even one skull, he gets a full combo.

 

[THTB]

Yeah, on block. And if Baraka has meter, you can't do anything to him at fullscreen. EX charge is ridiculous, and even though it pushes away, it's not like Baraka is in a terrible spot. He can play from the range it knocks you just fine.

At mid range, it's not an area I can actually do a ton. You may be unsafe, but again, Reptile's startup on pretty much anything is too slow to actually play at that range without being chicken choked for pressing buttons. And I have to trade spit for it to benefit me from fullscreen. It's really not that problematic for Ermac, at least that's how I feel about it.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Hey Metzos very interesting matchup chart. I was wondering if you can explain why the Kung Lao matchup is 5-5? It would seem to me that Kung Lao does not have a difficult time getting in on Ermac, and once in, he can pressure Ermac quite effectively. I think Ermacs best bet is a d1. Not doubting you at all just intrigued by the even number.

 

[Killphil]

I'm more inclined to believe TB on this. People don't fully appreciate just how good Sub's rush down is and if Sub and Ermac trade in the zoning battle his snow ball or ice beam is at least going to give him a slide. Also Sub has armor on his slide. Ermac only has armor on his X ray. Ice clone shuts down a lot of my shenanigans. I'm sure people will disagree but hey that's why we discuss this stuff in forums amarite?

Yea..armor on slide, but you still take damage. Ice clone does less to Ermac than it does to say Johnny or Sonya. I wrote a decent match write up that was dismissed by TB with a "sub doesn't lose to Ermac and the match write up is incorrect". While TB is a good player and usually knows what he's talking about, I'd be more content with a reason given. Sub wins up close. He does not win midscreen or fullscreen for that matter. Ermac's plasma ball is faster than ice ball. Ice ball from mid screen? forget it. The only reliable things sub has is using the slide to get in and 2,1,2 ice clone. 2,1,4 ice clone has too much recovery and can be grabbed. My friend has the hardest time beating my Ermac with his Sub and he's arguably better than me in general. Ice clone doesn't stop Ermac. Just run up to the clone and use tkp to keep sub from pressuring. I joke around saying Ermac is designed to shut down sub zero at times because he's got the tools to do so. Forceport, tkp, plasma ball are the staples in the sub matchup. I'm not saying this to be a dick, but I still don't see how having armor on a move that doesn't even get you in (which is where you want to be vs. Ermac) justifies it being a winning matchup for subzero.

 

[Pagan]

Yea..armor on slide, but you still take damage. Ice clone does less to Ermac than it does to say Johnny or Sonya. I wrote a decent match write up that was dismissed by TB with a "sub doesn't lose to Ermac and the match write up is incorrect". While TB is a good player and usually knows what he's talking about, I'd be more content with a reason given. Sub wins up close. He does not win midscreen or fullscreen for that matter. Ermac's plasma ball is faster than ice ball. Ice ball from mid screen? forget it. The only reliable things sub has is using the slide to get in and 2,1,2 ice clone. 2,1,4 ice clone has too much recovery and can be grabbed. My friend has the hardest time beating my Ermac with his Sub and he's arguably better than me in general. Ice clone doesn't stop Ermac. Just run up to the clone and use tkp to keep sub from pressuring. I joke around saying Ermac is designed to shut down sub zero at times because he's got the tools to do so. Forceport, tkp, plasma ball are the staples in the sub matchup. I'm not saying this to be a dick, but I still don't see how having armor on a move that doesn't even get you in (which is where you want to be vs. Ermac) justifies it being a winning matchup for subzero.

Oh I'm not saying it's a free win for sub by any means. Worse case scenario I would say 6-4 for either but I do think if played out a Sub who is on his game can stay in on Ermac and if Ermac tries to go full aggro on Sub he's going to check him with ice beam or something along those lines. Sub zero can deal damage while keeping you standing with a frame deficit, that's what I see as being the bigger concern. Obviously if the sub throws slide out too much and plays keep away, he's already lost against Ermac.

This is a match up I'm not too experienced and actually I can't think of it coming up in any streams I watched. If you're owning your more experienced buddy's sub though right on. Match ups in our favor are always welcome.

 

[Metzos]

You cannot teleport on reaction to a skull. You have to know that a skull is coming and teleport ahead of time, which is very risky. While the start up of all the skull moves is pretty slow, they recover fast. Also, Ermac does not destroy Shang at tele push range. It is actually an even trade. If Shang blocks a push, then he gets free chip damage off of a ground skull. I would also say that the telepush isn't that big. So what if it lands? If Shang lands even one skull, he gets a full combo.

You have a point. About teleporting on reaction to a skull. Its not hard. Have done it many times. You said it yourself. Slow startup. You also said that about telepush hitting you not being a big deal. Disagree alot. Simply because i have the adv in projectile war after you get up. Also if teleport hits from there i have 4 ways to mix it up from there.

 

[Metzos]

Yeah, on block. And if Baraka has meter, you can't do anything to him at fullscreen. EX charge is ridiculous, and even though it pushes away, it's not like Baraka is in a terrible spot. He can play from the range it knocks you just fine.

At mid range, it's not an area I can actually do a ton. You may be unsafe, but again, Reptile's startup on pretty much anything is too slow to actually play at that range without being chicken choked for pressing buttons. And I have to trade spit for it to benefit me from fullscreen. It's really not that problematic for Ermac, at least that's how I feel about it.

True but when you are midscreen, you can anticipate TKP's and punish them accordingly. Maybe you arent used playing against Ermac alot, i dont know. But in my opinion its probably Ermac's worst MU along with Raiden and Kabal.

 

[Metzos]

Hey Metzos very interesting matchup chart. I was wondering if you can explain why the Kung Lao matchup is 5-5? It would seem to me that Kung Lao does not have a difficult time getting in on Ermac, and once in, he can pressure Ermac quite effectively. I think Ermacs best bet is a d1. Not doubting you at all just intrigued by the even number.

Well if you take it only that Ermac now can punish with a full combo Kl's spin for a 38% since its nerfed like hell and generally all his moves are extremely punishable on block. Up close as you very well said Ermac's best bet is indeed d1 along with d3 too. Also his low hat combo pressure up close is very unsafe on block now too, correct me if i m wrong. The only thing i respect and fear from KL atm is his EX teleport.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You can outzone me with skulls which can be punished on reaction with teleports to setup ? Up close you probably have the adv but midscreen and fullscreen i dont think so m8.


EDIT: Also at TKP range Ermac destroys Shang Tsung.

Ermac gets blown up at TKP range ... because Shang can block and then up skull then simply soul steal..... for free. Shang wins up close... as well. There is really nothing Ermac can really do in this match up except take HUGE risks.

I think Ermac Sub is 5-5. B1,2,1 pressure kills Ermac as does d4. I think Ermac keeps him out fairly well... but Ermac has to Jump in to get his "pressure" going... and Sub can bait that. Just like Ermac can bait JiP's ....