CEO 2018 Results and Top 8 Rundown

[Blewdew]

I can‘t see how a move that punishes you for going for pressure after plus frames and Changes corner Position is low reward. Yes some characters can punish it if you read it but you have to make that read every single time, SF can basically throw that move out whenever she wants. Also if you misread it you loose your momentum, probably a bar that made you plus and you‘re in a bad position, so you basically throw away your advantage and put yourself in a disadvantage only because you fear the proporties of her charge.

And even if blocked this character always Has Meter to make it safe and it Resets the Momentum. You even have to make a read if she Charges again. I really fail to see how this move is high risk low reward.

 

[Error]

This top 8 was hype as hell, I was rooting for my boy Bio so hard. Everyone played great and showed just how much growth this game has gone through in a year. Can't wait to see how hard the players keep leveling up after this.

About the starfire complaints -- Semij clearly labbed it and being able to beat all of Starfires wakeup options put him a step above everyone else. He was beating wakeup uppercut, charge, and hair flip. I bet other characters can do the same. Then there's her ignoring plus frames, it's just like chasing down a backdash. She loses the risk/reward game on it real bad, please lab more before complaining and learn what a read is. If everyone just sat there and blocked when it was their turn to block, Batman would win every match forever and Johnny Cage would've won all three MK9 evos.

Nice to see a glint of logic in this thread, it's very obvious that semijj actually labbed the match up, something most refuse to do in favor of complaining.

Starfire, and most characters really can't wake up against Catwoman in the corner since her oki grants her enough adv to do a safe jump which stuffs the non invincible charge and dp and whiff punishes the hair flip, not a hard read at all her oki is just that dumb lol.

 

[ChatterBox]

Nah bruh, just complain online. Labbing is for wimps and nerds who like homework.

It's so funny to me how semij just shuts up, quietly kicks everyone's ass, clearly labs all these matchups, and then almost no one notices. Legit took me less than a minute to find multiple answers to tamaranian charge against plus frames with all five of the characters I mess around with. And then on oki semij showed us all for 9 games how to beat all her wakeups, no work required. Plus frames only work when enforced, it's a mind game not paint by numbers.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Nah bruh, just complain online. Labbing is for wimps and nerds who like homework.

It's so funny to me how semij just shuts up, quietly kicks everyone's ass, clearly labs all these matchups, and then almost no one notices. Legit took me less than a minute to find multiple answers to tamaranian charge against plus frames with all five of the characters I mess around with. And then on oki semij showed us all for 9 games how to beat all her wakeups, no work required. Plus frames only work when enforced, it's a mind game not paint by numbers.

^This.^

 

[Cursa]

What are the options to charging out of negative frames?

 

[dribirut]

What are the options to charging out of negative frames?

Almost instant jump forward normal like a tard... great option

 

[Cursa]

Almost instant jump forward normal like a tard... great option

Yea I'm just struggling to see what the easy option is that isn't something of a hard read tbh

I'd lab it myself if I could tbh, it was a genuine question

 

[ChatterBox]

What are the options to charging out of negative frames?

mb b/f 3, jump back, neutral jump, backdash, advancing normals, and block. Those are just the universal ones.

 

[Cursa]

mb b/f 3, jump back, neutral jump, backdash, advancing normals, and block. Those are just the universal ones.

Half of these a good chunk of the cast doesn't have access to or it is a bad idea against her. Take Bane

• Forward advancing normal that will reach would be charge, F2 (unsafe) and elbow sometimes works IIRC? All unsafe and risky AF to do up close anyway.
• Neutral jump is a read, if Starfire does basically anything other than charge you're likely getting hit by something else, not to mention Starfire's B2 which is a scary anti-air to begin with. Especially if you're a floaty jump character
• Jump back plays in Starfire's favour in the MU
• Backdash is another scary one since Bane's backdash is eh at best
• Block is probably the only good one for Bane since then you can try and abuse a gap or something so I'll give that one
• MB B3 is another risky one since a good and popular counterpoke option for SF is for D1xxSpecial which will basically always break armour outside of her fairy dust and maybe trait

I'll take back saying it's broke but I'm not sure I'd say SF in general is exactly balanced. Like seems to have a lot tools Fate has plus mobility and a better wakeup game, at the cost of maybe(?) slightly worse zoning and instead of having a crazy ass advancing mid she just has a crazy ass advancing high 50/50

Idk. I need to see/play more. I'm just getting Deadshot ptsd flashbacks considering Tweedy, Bio, Bee, and CheetahMaster all had Starfire secondaries, not that she's anywhere near that bad.

tldr; idk

 

[ChatterBox]

In further testing, stand 1 seems to work well with most characters even if you're only + 1. Took a whopping five minutes to find.

Bane has a bad time against a keep away character? Perish the thought. Those were just the universal options in this one very specific scenario. Anyone see Tweedy, Bio, or Honeybee (those were the only star players I saw on stream) just throwing out charge against plus France and winning? Hell both Commandeur brothers lost with her right? This is flavor of the week nerf talk. People need to lab more, it's embarrassing.

@Cursa I totally get it if you didn't buy the character that's fine but trust it's not like it's a dragon punch, just a fast reversal people can gamble with like any other as far as I've seen.

EDIT I checked with bane and you can do command grab, she bounces off, stays in front, and floats a real long time for a juicy stand 1 punish. Also f2d armors and punishes charge too so you can do that into whatever. MB f3 and b3 beat it too. Stand 1 works for some of his plus frames, others have too much push back. Are those really bad options? I honestly don't know.

 

[Cursa]

In further testing, stand 1 seems to work well with most characters even if you're only + 1. Took a whopping five minutes to find.

It's not the options that are the problem, it's the counters to those options that are the problem, at least for Bane.

Like yeah charge punishes it but the reasons you shouldn't do charge as a reversal at like +2 or something is immense. It's like a 30 frame startup move, Starfire could do D1xxHairflipxxTrait and now you're a debuff Bane against Starfire. It's just the only example I can relate to at moment.

And also...

Took a whopping five minutes to find.

I don't know if this is directed at me, and I don't think it is, but I'd just be a little hesitant on the tone if it is. I do own the character, I cannot lab it right now, so all I can do is speculate

Also does grab really beat BF2 MB? I swear it doesn't.

 

[Blewdew]

In further testing, stand 1 seems to work well with most characters even if you're only + 1. Took a whopping five minutes to find.

Bane has a bad time against a keep away character? Perish the thought. Those were just the universal options in this one very specific scenario. Anyone see Tweedy, Bio, or Honeybee (those were the only star players I saw on stream) just throwing out charge against plus France and winning? Hell both Commandeur brothers lost with her right? This is flavor of the week nerf talk. People need to lab more, it's embarrassing.

@Cursa I totally get it if you didn't buy the character that's fine but trust it's not like it's a dragon punch, just a fast reversal people can gamble with like any other as far as I've seen.

EDIT I checked with bane and you can do command grab, she bounces off, stays in front, and floats a real long time for a juicy stand 1 punish. Also f2d armors and punishes charge too so you can do that into whatever. MB f3 and b3 beat it too. Stand 1 works for some of his plus frames, others have too much push back. Are those really bad options? I honestly don't know.

Actually bio threw it out against sonicfox when he Played red hood and was plus, Even kp said in the commentary „ who cares about plus frames when you‘re Playing starfire“ or smth like that. Imo the move would be Fine if you couldn‘t mb it on block so instead Of making a Risky hard read everytime you Could just Block and punish it consistantly. The reward is the same for her, it‘s just riskier to throw it out whenever she wants.

 

[JBeezYBabY]

Changing gears for a bit....has anybody actually attended CEO this year from TYM ?Question mark?

 

[Cursa]

Actually bio threw it out against sonicfox when he Played red hood and was plus, Even kp said in the commentary „ who cares about plus frames when you‘re Playing starfire“ or smth like that. Imo the move would be Fine if you couldn‘t mb it on block so instead Of making a Risky hard read everytime you Could just Block and punish it consistantly. The reward is the same for her, it‘s just riskier to throw it out whenever she wants.

It does have a gap for the record on MB but I'm not sure how consistent punishes are for it

 

[Blewdew]

It does have a gap for the record on MB but I'm not sure how consistent punishes are for it

Would be interesting to know, I can‘t lab it sadly because I didn‘t bought her

 

[trufenix]

It does have a gap for the record on MB but I'm not sure how consistent punishes are for it

Would be interesting to know, I can‘t lab it sadly because I didn‘t bought her

How can a regular on this site not find someone else on this site probably in this very thread not willing to do online training mode for 10 minutes to figure this out? I believe this sort of situation here is exactly what @ChatterBox meant would've taken "5 minutes to find". )=

 

[Cursa]

Would be interesting to know, I can‘t lab it sadly because I didn‘t bought her

I'll be labbing it and other stuff when I get home from work, which should be in like 6 hours on the last day of my 10 day shift, hence all the Q's

I am like 99% sure I saw Bio blow up a gap in it on one of Honeybee's KOTHs. It was with Bane's DB2 but Bee was also cornered so it could've had an impact on what move he could've used. Like maybe midscreen you can only use like elbow drop or something.

In terms of every other character, using MB B3, I have no clue as to how or if it would work but MB B3'ing small gaps on weird hitboxes is harder than people give it credit for

 

[Cursa]

How can a regular on this site not find someone else on this site probably in this very thread not willing to do online training mode for 10 minutes to figure this out? I believe this sort of situation here is exactly what @ChatterBox meant would've taken "5 minutes to find". )=

As I think I've said previously, work for me personally. I've been living on a mine camp for 10 days, only internet is at work.

@Blewdew doesn't own Starfire

We've had a thread on this exact issue already and it ended pretty much with "other commitments"

As for getting someone else to do it, I am just gonna do it when I get home. I'm just commenting on what I've seen

 

[Blewdew]

How can a regular on this site not find someone else on this site probably in this very thread not willing to do online training mode for 10 minutes to figure this out? I believe this sort of situation here is exactly what @ChatterBox meant would've taken "5 minutes to find". )=

Because I don‘t care enough to pm someone here to ask just to lab this out lol if someone who actually owns her Says a few words about it that‘s Cool,if not it’s whatever. I just love how almost everyone Here is passive agressive by default

 

[ChatterBox]

@Blewdew the difference between someone doing it once to challenge plus frames, and it being in need of a nerf is labbing. I get it, you didn't buy her, so that's fine that you haven't done the homework, but then don't say it needs a nerf if you haven't practiced how to blow it up. That's minimum effort stuff there.

I don't mean to be passive agressive, and no hard feelings against people who just have an opinion. The problem is that it becomes this narrative of "oh plus frames LOL just tamaran charge" when, once labbed against, it becomes just another rando move to throw off someone's offense that can be safely beaten. You have to do that in fighting games at a high level, show your opponent you're prepared for the rando stuff and condition them to deal with you. That's why I keep telliong everyone to lab more, so when we talk about these situations we're all coming from a similar knowledge base. If people all flood this thread and say "yea moron I labbed it and all my options are terrible and the risk/reward is in her favor on my plus frames" then i'll happily hitch to the nerf train.

These tournaments all become better when we all do the work, This top 8 is clear evidence of that. I thought the point of this site was to be competitive. Gotta do the work.

 

[Cursa]

So like, for an example of what I'm saying, if Superman does F23xx4xxD1 which you basically have to hold, Starfire can do BF2 out of it and punish the D1. It also punishes a bunch of other stuff from that whole mindgame thing but that's for another thread for another day.

As far as I'm aware she's the only character in the game that can punish Superman for doing a D1 out of his F23 game. It gets out of plus frames for sure, unless you make some reads that are often.... situational. Like going out of +1 with a instant JI1 is a pretty weird read to have to make as a Superman player, especially considering the risks of doing it. If she crouch blocks then you get full combo punished.

That's all I've labbed for now. I'm not sure it's broken or anything at the moment, I'll admit I jumped the gun, but sometimes the risk reward is in her favour. With Superman in particular - more often then not.

The only other thing that I think gets close to it is stuff that low profiles but that's a whooolllleee other story

 

[Dogeofthesea]

So like, for an example of what I'm saying, if Superman does F23xxD1 which you basically have to hold, Starfire can do BF2 out of it and punish the D1. It also punishes a bunch of other stuff from that whole mindgame thing but that's for another thread for another day.

As far as I'm aware she's the only character in the game that can punish Superman for doing a D1 out of his F23 game. It gets out of plus frames for sure, unless you make some reads that are often.... situational. Like going out of +1 with a instant JI1 is a pretty weird read to have to make as a Superman player, especially considering the risks of doing it. If she crouch blocks then you get full combo punished.

That's all I've labbed for now. I'm not sure it's broken or anything at the moment, I'll admit I jumped the gun, but sometimes the risk reward is in her favour. With Superman in particular - more often then not.

The only other thing that I think gets close to it is stuff that low profiles but that's a whooolllleee other story

F23 is minus on block

 

[Cursa]

F23 is minus on block

fixed'd #Typo's lol

 

[M.D.]

Starfire is broken and the charge is broken period.
Every one (like the two people) pushing that you should lab are just afraid they'd nerf the free win button.





A wait there ain't no patch comin out EVER for this game EVER again. So what's the point in asking for nerfs now lol.