Discussion Final MKXL Tier List (post yours!)

[Basic Stupidity]

There have been a lot of tier list threads throughout the games life, but now that the game is pretty well balanced, and Mortal Kombat is gonna be ggs for 95% of everyone when Injustice 2 comes out, Id like to know what EVERYONE thinks about the game's balance one last time.

No particular order in a tier, its alphabetical, so I'm not saying Alien is the best character in his group, or that Triborg is worst in his.

Key:
S: The strongest variations in the game, with powerful strengths, and small weaknesses. Viable as a solo main.

A+: Similar in capabilities to the S variations, but they are more flawed, meaning that they have more exploiatable weaknesses, or less powerful strengths. Theoretically viable as a solo main.

A: Strong characters, but either lack the cheese of high tiers, or aren't as well rounded. May require a second variation to cover weak spots.

B+: Characters with good tools, but they have relevant and easily exploitable weaknesses. These are probably the more "fair" variations on the game. Will require another variation to help.

B: These aren't "bad" characters, but there isn't any merit or reward to choosing a character in here. Variations in this group aren't worth using as a main.

C: Irrelevant variations that put their mains on suicide watch


S: Ermac(Mystic), Jacqui Briggs(Full Auto), Jason Voorhees(Unstoppable), Kitana(Royal Storm), Liu Kang(Dragon's Fire), Mileena(Ethereal), Mileena(Piercing), Quan Chi(Sorcerer), Shinnok(Boneshaper), Sonya Blade(Demolition), Takeda(Lasher), Tremor(Crystalline), Triborg(Sektor), Triborg(Smoke)

A+: Cassie Cage(Hollywood), Ermac(Spectral), Jason Voorhees(Relentless), Kitana(Assassin), Kenshi(Possessed), Liu Kang(Flame Fist), Mileena(Ravenous), Quan Chi(Summoner), Predator(Hish-Qu-Ten), Raiden(Displacer), Reptile(Deceptive), Reptile(Noxious), Reptile(Nimble), Scorpion(Hellfire), Shinnok(Imposter), Sonya Blade(Special Forces), Sub-Zero(Grandmaster), Takeda(Shirai Ryu), Tanya(Pyromancer), Tremor(Aftershock)

A: Alien(Acidic), Alien(Konjurer), Bo' Rai Cho(Dragon's Breath), Cassie Cage(Brawler), D'Vorah(Swarm Queen), Ermac(Master of Souls), Ferra/Torr(Ruthless), Goro(Dragon Fangs), Goro(Tigrar Fury), Jacqui Briggs(Shotgun) Kano(Cutthroat), Kano(Cybernetic), Kano(Commando), Kung Jin(Shaolin), Kung Lao(Tempest), Liu Kang(Dualist), Raiden(Thunder God), Scorpion(Ninjutsu), Shinnok(Necromancer), Sonya Blade(Covert Ops), Sub-Zero(Unbreakable), Takeda(Ronin), Tanya(Dragon Naginata)

B+: Bo' Rai Cho(Bartitsu), Cassie Cage(Spec Ops), D'Vorah(Venomous), D'Vorah(Brood Mother), Erron Black(Gunslinger), Ferra/Torr(Vicious), Goro(Kuatan Warrior), Jason Voorhees(Slasher), Jax(Wrestler), Johnny Cage(A-List), Johnny Cage(Fisticuffs), Kenshi(Balanced), Kitana(Mournful), Kotal Kahn(Sun God), Kung Jin(Bojutsu), Kung Lao(Buzzsaw), Leatherface(Killer), Leatherface(Butcher), Quan Chi(Warlock), Sub-Zero(Cryomancer), Tanya(Kobu Jutsu), Tremor(Metallic), Triborg(Cyrax), Triborg(Cyber Sub-Zero)

B: Alien(Tarkatan), Erron Black(Marksman), Jax(Heavy Weapons), Jax(Pumped Up), Johnny Cage(Stunt Double), Kenshi(Kenjutsu), Kotal Kahn(War God), Kung Jin(Ancestral), Kung Lao(Hat Trick), Leatherface(Pretty Lady), Predator(Hunter), Predator(Warrior), Raiden(Master of Storms), Scorpion(Inferno)

C: Bo' Rai Cho(Drunken Master), Erron Black(Outlaw), Ferra/Torr(Lackey), Jacqui Briggs(High Tech), Kotal Kahn(Blood God)

Changes:
-Quan Chi(Summoner) moved to A+(down from S)
-Reptile(Deceptive) moved to A+(up from A)
-Reptie(Noxious) moved to A+(up from A)

Honestly don't agree with the majority of this list.
Also how in the world do you not put imposter in S tier?
What world do you live in where imposter is worse than lasher?

 

[SaSSolino]

What are you smoking? Bo has a no hurtbox weapon and can poke right through the Klone and punishes B2 clean. They both have an incredibly hard time escaping each other's setplay and the neutral isn't too slanted in anyone's favor. If you'd take Jax over Bo vs Sub be my guest, the more the merrier.

As I said, the stick makes it better. But you don't like reading, don't you?

 

[TamedLizard]

@Youphemism Do you think DB is better than Bart now? I haven't played Bart in a while but I was under the impression that it still covered the most MUs.

 

[Kooron Nation]

@Youphemism finally someone with some logic in here realising Spectral's potential

 

[Dankster Morgan]

As I said, the stick makes it better. But you don't like reading, don't you?

Yeah the stick lets him deal with klone and punish B2, two details you listed being factually incorrect.

 

[SaSSolino]

Yeah the stick lets him deal with klone and punish B2, two details you listed being factually incorrect.

Are you for real?

I added the stick part later, making better those points too. Obviously.

 

[Marinjuana]

Drunken Master is easily one of the worst variations of this game, and its not because he lacks mids, its pure and simply his drinking mechanic is just bad that puts what this variation should have been to rest, pure disappointment.

It gives him access to a hit confirmable low launcher as well as some almost safe specials plus a full screen armored move that does 15%. Without drinking he functions as variationless Bo Rai Cho with unique mobility with his sexy stance(while also allowing for significant low profiling that can lead to full combo even against certain mid wakeups.) and a solid move in puke spit. You drink during setplay and mix. He's not remotely as bad as people make him out to be.

 

[xKhaoTik]

The spectral downplaying is astounding lol

I'm convinced you guys have no idea what that variation is about.

 

[standoffstance]

The spectral downplaying is astounding lol

I'm convinced you guys have no idea what that variation is about.

Word. People keep forgetting, Spectral has safe 50/50s that lead either to pressure or meterless 36%. 40% easily in the corner off of a 5050, but no EX push waaaaaaah

 

[Wigy]

It gives him access to a hit confirmable low launcher as well as some almost safe specials plus a full screen armored move that does 15%. Without drinking he functions as variationless Bo Rai Cho with unique mobility with his sexy stance(while also allowing for significant low profiling that can lead to full combo even against certain mid wakeups.) and a solid move in puke spit. You drink during setplay and mix. He's not remotely as bad as people make him out to be.

he's essentially variationless without drink as you've said.

Getting drink out safely is difficult, then getting your pressure going is even harder. If you get put into a combo then restand they can get a free combo on you again. You cant cash out at all, so if your pressure stops and you're drunk, a good player is guna punish you for it in some way or another most times.

Jason can punish you for winning with his resurrect if you're drunk.

I dont see anything good about him at all.

You're taking a huge risk to implement any good mixup/pressure game and even then its so hard to get going.

Pretty much the whole bo community is agreed that hes total dogshit.

 

[Tweedy]

I think Imposter is the best in the game, especially if you supplement a couple match ups with Boneshaper. His setplay is so strong in this version. You basically have a 2 way mix up that does 16% and leaves you neutral or slightly plus if you're wrong, along with his low and overhead. His throw says it's 0 on hit but it's really plus enough to guarantee a run up f4.

Even without a good move, the damage buff will give you good risk/reward off of f4 or b3. F4 into amulet is so good with the upgraded amulet. Shinnok's D1, D4, and button into special mind games are crazy. His D2 is one of the best anti airs in the game and his jump 1 is up there for best in the game. 6 frames and it's very hard to low profile. His jump 3 is a typical MKX jump 3. Shoulder is an absurd neutral tool now. He low profiles and doesn't get low profiled. His 7 frame low gives him some of the best counterpoking in the game. They have to respect it like it's a poke, opening up b3 counterpokes.

I don't see an argument for him not being among the best in the game, even if you don't consider him #1.

There's a lot I don't agree with. Imposter not being top tier and Balanced/Mournful being so low are the biggest things tho.

Edit: Balanced is A+ imo and Mournful is definitely at least A.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Im gonna make an edit to it later these evening once I gather my thoughts and think your suggestions through.

@Tweedy why should Balanced Kenshi be higher than B+?

Edit: just saw your edit, he's not going in A+, but I respect your opinion.

 

[Tweedy]

This game is gonna die with one of the best variations(Balanced) being seen as a low tier variation because of crazy propaganda and poor strategy. I love Pig but even on the last version, Balanced being bad is a blow up. Realistically Balanced was only bad before B1 was made 13 frames.

These TYM dudes legit cry about anti airs when Kenshi has one of the best D2s in the game. You don't need anti airing armor when you have some of the best meterless anti airs. Standing 1 is a practice mode anti air. If you use it, of course you'll think he has no anti airs.

Another problem is that they keep trying to end strings in specials. Just do 11 or f21 and hit confirm into rk. On block you're -1. B1 can't really be hit confirmed but it's +17 on hit, leading into a hit or throw mix on hit. -1 on block. Kenshi's throw is PLUS TWENTY FIVE on hit. Balanced gets some of the best meterless damage in the game. EX push is worse than Possessed's armor, but it's better than nothing. If they jump, scout that. You're not quan chi just because they can jump your plus armor lmao.

Balanced isn't a zoner either. Play him like Kung Lao. Rush down, shimmies, throws. Play footsies with F4, D4, B1. Anti air. Your throw is much more plus than Lao's. Just don't use 322 because that string is actually trash in Balanced.

 

[ShrekForXbox]

Why is everyone ranking Blood God so low? Did the Obsidian Totem nerf really hurt him that much?

 

[Marinjuana]

he's essentially variationless without drink as you've said.

Getting drink out safely is difficult, then getting your pressure going is even harder. If you get put into a combo then restand they can get a free combo on you again. You cant cash out at all, so if your pressure stops and you're drunk, a good player is guna punish you for it in some way or another most times.

Jason can punish you for winning with his resurrect if you're drunk.

I dont see anything good about him at all.

You're taking a huge risk to implement any good mixup/pressure game and even then its so hard to get going.

Pretty much the whole bo community is agreed that hes total dogshit.

Getting a drink out safely is as easy as landing a fart. Drink during setplay. I only drink outside of combos if I have the gameplan of using EX Fatpedo to close out the round or if I want to be ballsy on oki. Like yea, bad situations can happen but it's rare and matchup specific in which it will be so bad you get reset because of drink. You have a certain amount of control over it, how it usually works out is that I'll have just a couple seconds to land a fart/drink after I commit to monkey flips or the low launcher, in which case I'll puke during the opponents punish. Now that's not always the case but in that example it's essentially the same as committing to an unsafe special in the other variations.

The Jason example is kind of irrelevant, it's one matchup and Unstoppable does well against Bo anyway with armor breaks.

I don't know how you can say there's nothing good about him at all, he has more overhead/low mixups then 95% of the cast, has Bo Rai Cho's great variationless tools, has B4~sexy stance which allows him to do shit like low profile full punish Tremor's Rock Punch and avoid Cassie's EX nutpunch and full punish. Further more, B4~sexy stance and sexy stance does wonders for counter zoning in the right MUs and gives him gimmicky rolls, cheeky mindgames and stuff like corpse hops/crossups. His low launcher can be hit confirmed and you can roll on block.(Like if the second 4 hits in 244, if you commit to sexy stance you can confirm the low or roll away.) Some characters just don't have an answer for sexy stance and will have to approach or otherwise throw a wrench into their gameplan. DF2 is an excellent anti air that complements his keep away very well as well as serving as a solid ender to leave the opponent standing for some pressure. He probably has the most chip in Bo's variations with DB1, which also lets him get some big daddy damage and it is not that bad on block. DF1 is almost safe with its knockback and jails from d4. Ex Fatpedo is one of the best armored moves in the game. He can cancel his throw into drink to make it have significant advantage. Even has EX invincibility frames which can come in handy every once in a while. How is none of this good?

I'm not even saying this character is mid tier, but he's not shit tier like he's so often described as.

 

[standoffstance]

Why is everyone ranking Blood God so low? Did the Obsidian Totem nerf really hurt him that much?

Blood God has literally no defense whatsoever when he's recieving Oki

 

[Wigy]

Getting a drink out safely is as easy as landing a fart. Drink during setplay. I only drink outside of combos if I have the gameplan of using EX Fatpedo to close out the round or if I want to be ballsy on oki. Like yea, bad situations can happen but it's rare and matchup specific in which it will be so bad you get reset because of drink. You have a certain amount of control over it, how it usually works out is that I'll have just a couple seconds to land a fart/drink after I commit to monkey flips or the low launcher, in which case I'll puke during the opponents punish. Now that's not always the case but in that example it's essentially the same as committing to an unsafe special in the other variations.

The Jason example is kind of irrelevant, it's one matchup and Unstoppable does well against Bo anyway with armor breaks.

I don't know how you can say there's nothing good about him at all, he has more overhead/low mixups then 95% of the cast, has Bo Rai Cho's great variationless tools, has B4~sexy stance which allows him to do shit like low profile full punish Tremor's Rock Punch and avoid Cassie's EX nutpunch and full punish. Further more, B4~sexy stance and sexy stance does wonders for counter zoning in the right MUs and gives him gimmicky rolls, cheeky mindgames and stuff like corpse hops/crossups. His low launcher can be hit confirmed and you can roll on block.(Like if the second 4 hits in 244, if you commit to sexy stance you can confirm the low or roll away.) Some characters just don't have an answer for sexy stance and will have to approach. DF2 is an excellent anti air that complements his keep away very well as well as serving as a solid ender to leave the opponent standing for some pressure. He probably has the most chip in Bo's variations with DB1, which also let's him get some big daddy damage and it's not that bad on block. DF1 is almost safe with it's knockback and jails from d4. Ex Fatpedo is one of the best armored moves in the game. He can cancel his throw into drink to make it have significant advantage. Even has EX invincibility frames which can come in handy every once in a while. How is none of this good?

I'm not even saying this character is mid tier, but he's not shit tier like he's so often described as.

The long and short of it is, you need to capitalise HEAVILY on every chance you get because bo stuggles in the neutral so bad. Theres no reliable way to get his drink out and start your game aside from grab ex drink in the corner. Theres no way to cash out, so once you've commited to the drink if anything goes wrong you're guna get killed for it, be that a combo into restand or puking during a blockstring.

When he is drunk he is a monster, his moves are really good, but he cannot get in a position to capitalise and after he does you're extremely vulnerable.

Hes just a character of gimmicks, once you learn the matchup, hes horrible.

What are his winning matchups?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I had Balanced on B+ lol that's not low tier. And the game's gonna die because people would rather play Injustice.

 

[Eddy Wang]

It gives him access to a hit confirmable low launcher as well as some almost safe specials plus a full screen armored move that does 15%. Without drinking he functions as variationless Bo Rai Cho with unique mobility with his sexy stance(while also allowing for significant low profiling that can lead to full combo even against certain mid wakeups.) and a solid move in puke spit. You drink during setplay and mix. He's not remotely as bad as people make him out to be.

This is all theory, in practice doesn't function

Unique mobility? Lol Bo's Mobility without drinking is just pure shit, he can't access the stance until he drinks.
Bo doesn't have safe specials at all, "almost" is not safe on block.
The tools he gains access with drinking that are usefull are only zen and the fullscreen armored move and that's it, all other things are just pure shit, since it doesn't add anything to the mix.

The way NRS designed him makes his drinking pure situational, so he is forced to play variationless almost the entire round, because if you drink early on or later on, you will have to continue to drink until you win or the round ends, which with the current tools its bad because he doesn't have many ways to drink while using certain moves, and the cooldown cuts punishes as well when it times out.

This variation could have a simple fix,
a) instead of having 10 secs only, every time he drink it should add to the existing timing, this would make him more bearable, and a bit more forgiving.

b) If the cooldown ends he shouldn't puke until he returns to neutral stance, so he could at least use a move that helps him transition into drinking without triggering the cooldown if he gets a window for a reward or puke after a punish.

c) When he reaches lvl 1 drinking, he can't drink after b3, 1+3 and f3, 1+2, he should on lvl2 and lvl3 too, as well as he should be able to drink while in meditate stance, this would give him access to ways to keep the timing alive when he doesn't have the momentum


But instead, he pukes after 10 seconds, with not good tools to maintain his momentum, which he can lose very easily, his mobility game is overrated, his ex zen has invincibility frames indeed but situations to use that practically are somewhat hard since you will be focusing more on the next refill instead of actually playing.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Updated with a few changes. Imposter should have always been in S. Metallic and Mournful may not be as good as the other 2 variations of that character, the base tools of those characters are good enough to where there's not really anything wrong with them. Metallic in particular gets thrown under the bus a lot. I feel like he would fit in an A- but I don't have that so As the closest imo. While Sonya is still a super strong character, I bumped down Demo and Special Forces a tier each because I don't think they quite fit with the characters they were grouped with.

 

[kabelfritz]

"major-winner-level knowledge of every single variation in the game" actually means not knowing some variations in the game at all, since a few of the people who have won majors actually didn't know how certain variations worked until recently. So if you're implying that major winners know every variation in the game at even a decent level you must not know how much they actually know lol

As for the community effort thing I see what you're going for but that would be a mess. Multiple communities downplay their character, just imagine how terrible some matchup discussions would be. One community would swear it's losing for their character and another would swear it's losing for their character lol.

1. thats not what i said but exactly what i criticise. even top-players can only be specialists for a couple characters, still single persons who are not even top players come up with tier lists for 100 variations. remember that tier lists only refer to the HIGHEST POSSIBLE level of play.

2. for the same reason it should just be the proven best/most knowledgable for their respective characters who discuss single matchups. out of all outcomes a matchup chart and from that a tie rlist should be formed. i think i remember such a project from mk9 times but i dunno how that turned out.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Why is everyone ranking Blood God so low? Did the Obsidian Totem nerf really hurt him that much?

Yes. The answer is yes lol. That and Pizza nerf really hurt him

 

[ShrekForXbox]

Blood God has literally no defense whatsoever when he's recieving Oki

True, but I guess I thought the nerfs wouldn't be enough to put BG into poo tier. I honestly would put him a little higher than that, since I think Kotal's a decent character at the base.

 

[Gustavness]

Besides getting a few variations very wrong, this list is not bad.

however, stating a "Final" Tier list is just silly. There are quite a few characters with Phase 3 tech that has not been discovered, that not only completely changes how they are played but a lot of their matchups as well, and moves them from what would be classified in your list as B tier to S Tier . Not all mind you, but a few.

All in all, effort tier = B+

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Besides getting a few variations very wrong, this list is not bad.

however, stating a "Final" Tier list is just silly. There are quite a few characters with Phase 3 tech that has not been discovered, that not only completely changes how they are played but a lot of their matchups as well, and moves them from what would be classified in your list as B tier to S Tier . Not all mind you, but a few.

All in all, effort tier = B+

Dude i hate when people do shit like this. Acting like they know everything in the game ever without any explanation. Instead of acting like a cocky elder god how about you explain some things and this tech that only you know