Zangief General Discussion Thread

[Kroaken]

Maybe one day you and I and @Kroaken will hit that level of Cyclone Mastery, lol. Truly amazing

Haha gotta work on my jab game. The dragon force really made that shine.

 

[ChoseDeath]

Happy New Year Comrades!

So, anyone played Juri yet? I'm playing against my friend last night and it's a rough match. Jump MK beats every air move you have as a counter except it trades with jab, and it hits behind her body so you cannot cross under. Stand MK beats clean literally every jump in you have from any distance when landing in the front. Crouch MP does the same thing but also stops cross up attempts. Stand LP beats or trades with every close jump in or cross up including jump LK and splash. She has an air throw.

One of the big problems with Juri is you have to charge up her kicks before she gets super tricky. But she can gain all three charged with ease because Zangief can't catch her. She also has her invincible EX reversal. Her overhead is fast and I got put in a lot of 50-50 block strings. Eating the low MK was a combo, eating the overhead meant continued pressure. Blocking the MK meant nothing on its own, but yielded a decent punish when the special cancelled move was blocked, while blocking the overhead yielded a great punish.

So yeah... tough match. Any tips? I had some success because his desire to get his charges yielded a lot of space and he back dashed constantly. This yielded many escapes, but I could get him to the corner where I had the advantage. However, once he decided he just wasn't going to the corner, the match got WAY harder. We were playing FT3's and I lost 5 sets to 2. He has only been playing Juri 2 weeks, but is in general a better player than me.

So... anything fellas?

 

[Kroaken]

Happy New Year Comrades!

So, anyone played Juri yet? I'm playing against my friend last night and it's a rough match. Jump MK beats every air move you have as a counter except it trades with jab, and it hits behind her body so you cannot cross under. Stand MK beats clean literally every jump in you have from any distance when landing in the front. Crouch MP does the same thing but also stops cross up attempts. Stand LP beats or trades with every close jump in or cross up including jump LK and splash. She has an air throw.

One of the big problems with Juri is you have to charge up her kicks before she gets super tricky. But she can gain all three charged with ease because Zangief can't catch her. She also has her invincible EX reversal. Her overhead is fast and I got put in a lot of 50-50 block strings. Eating the low MK was a combo, eating the overhead meant continued pressure. Blocking the MK meant nothing on its own, but yielded a decent punish when the special cancelled move was blocked, while blocking the overhead yielded a great punish.

So yeah... tough match. Any tips? I had some success because his desire to get his charges yielded a lot of space and he back dashed constantly. This yielded many escapes, but I could get him to the corner where I had the advantage. However, once he decided he just wasn't going to the corner, the match got WAY harder. We were playing FT3's and I lost 5 sets to 2. He has only been playing Juri 2 weeks, but is in general a better player than me.

So... anything fellas?

This kind of situation is easier to diagnose with footage. Is he a friend that you could record and post the sets with? I'll try to record these scenarios in the lab and see what I come up with when I get enough free time.

 

[Kroaken]

@ChoseDeath

 

[ChoseDeath]

This kind of situation is easier to diagnose with footage. Is he a friend that you could record and post the sets with? I'll try to record these scenarios in the lab and see what I come up with when I get enough free time.

Yes he is and I shall post it next time we play so you can get a gander at it.

 

[JJvercetti]

Quick couple of things I have learned or tested against Kolin:
Cannot headbutt her projectiles
Her Vskill will blow through all of your armor (Charged HP and V-Skill)
You cannot move fast enough to absorb her V-Trigger with your V-Skill (Only V-Triggered V-Skill can absorb all the hits)
You cannot V-Trigger or Lariat through her Trigger
I still need to test but you can stand up between the the first and second hit of her sweep but you cannot jump or backdash. (I need to see if I can V-Skill the Second hit)

 

[ChoseDeath]

Quick couple of things I have learned or tested against Kolin:
Cannot headbutt her projectiles
Her Vskill will blow through all of your armor (Charged HP and V-Skill)
You cannot move fast enough to absorb her V-Trigger with your V-Skill (Only V-Triggered V-Skill can absorb all the hits)
You cannot V-Trigger or Lariat through her Trigger
I still need to test but you can stand up between the the first and second hit of her sweep but you cannot jump or backdash. (I need to see if I can V-Skill the Second hit)

Played against a friend of mine tonight and it feels like a 6-4 match until she gets figured out, then I'm thinking a 7-3. Goddamn, that counter damage though!

 

[JJvercetti]

Played against a friend of mine tonight and it feels like a 6-4 match until she gets figured out, then I'm thinking a 7-3. Goddamn, that counter damage though!

Yeah this matchup is going to be a tough one. I think I saw somewhere that her counter is frame 1 but she loses to grabs.

EDIT: I saw that Counter is 2 frames but EX is 1 frame

 

[JJvercetti]

 

[ChoseDeath]

Yeah this matchup is going to be a tough one. I think I saw somewhere that her counter is frame 1 but she loses to grabs.

EDIT: I saw that Counter is 2 frames but EX is 1 frame

Ok, I may have lied. I don't play this game much at the moment, but from some Kolin sets I've played and watched, I'm thinking that some absolutely disgusting abuse of SPD and Running Bear Grab instead of footsies will hurt her. If Kolin plays the counter game, we'll just slam her into oblivion. Thoughts?

 

[JJvercetti]

Ok, I may have lied. I don't play this game much at the moment, but from some Kolin sets I've played and watched, I'm thinking that some absolutely disgusting abuse of SPD and Running Bear Grab instead of footsies will hurt her. If Kolin plays the counter game, we'll just slam her into oblivion. Thoughts?

It does seem that her step (or whatever its called) can be beaten by RBG and meaty grabs on her wakeup wil bear her if she decides to get counter happy.

 

[StormGoddess]

FROM THE UPCOMING PATCH...
Zangief

• Head Butt
  • Reduced the amount of CA meter gain upon use to cancel a projectile attack
  • Note: From 50 to 30
• Double Lariat
  • Reduced the downwards hitbox on his arms while spinning (1st revolution)
  • Changed so that the hitbox on his arms while spinning (2nd and 3rd revolutions) will not hit crouching opponents
  • Expanded the hurtbox to the same position as his hitbox
• Harasho Choke Slam
  • New neutral/forward normal throw (LP+LK) that is triggered against crouching opponents

• Flying Head Butt
  • New move: press up + HK during a neutral jump

• Tundra Storm
  • New move: F, D, DF + P - perform a counter (only works against horizontally-angled kick attacks)
  Developer Comments: Zangief is one of the characters who has seen a big jump in the rankings since the beginning of Season 2. Although we are quite happy with his progression, we have noticed that his lariat is a large source of frustration for his opponents in that it's extremely hard to punish.
  
  We feel that with the adjustment made to Zangief's lariat, he will still maintain his strength, yet players will have to utilize a bit more strategy to be effective with him.
  
  Lastly, we felt that Zangief's moveset could use more options. To that effect, we have added a few more moves to his arsenal, which should make him a bit more entertaining for those who play him.

 

[ChoseDeath]

FROM THE UPCOMING PATCH...
Zangief

• Head Butt
  • Reduced the amount of CA meter gain upon use to cancel a projectile attack
  • Note: From 50 to 30
• Double Lariat
  • Reduced the downwards hitbox on his arms while spinning (1st revolution)
  • Changed so that the hitbox on his arms while spinning (2nd and 3rd revolutions) will not hit crouching opponents
  • Expanded the hurtbox to the same position as his hitbox
• Harasho Choke Slam
  • New neutral/forward normal throw (LP+LK) that is triggered against crouching opponents

• Flying Head Butt
  • New move: press up + HK during a neutral jump

• Tundra Storm
  • New move: F, D, DF + P - perform a counter (only works against horizontally-angled kick attacks)
  Developer Comments: Zangief is one of the characters who has seen a big jump in the rankings since the beginning of Season 2. Although we are quite happy with his progression, we have noticed that his lariat is a large source of frustration for his opponents in that it's extremely hard to punish.
  
  We feel that with the adjustment made to Zangief's lariat, he will still maintain his strength, yet players will have to utilize a bit more strategy to be effective with him.
  
  Lastly, we felt that Zangief's moveset could use more options. To that effect, we have added a few more moves to his arsenal, which should make him a bit more entertaining for those who play him.

First thought, thank you for posting this! Second thought, WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK?! Where the hell did ANY of that come from?! Very confused. Kind of excited, but confused.

 

[StormGoddess]

First thought, thank you for posting this! Second thought, WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK?! Where the hell did ANY of that come from?! Very confused. Kind of excited, but confused.

NEW PATCH dropping in April- the total patch notes are in the main sfv thread

 

[JJvercetti]

I knew Lariat was going to get nerfed, it was too good without any drawback. I dont know about the new moves and without any frame data, I cant really form an opinion on it.
EDIT: I want to be excited by this but this is Capcom lol.

 

[ChoseDeath]

NEW PATCH dropping in April- the total patch notes are in the main sfv thread

Oh you misunderstand madam. I knew that what you wrote was the new patch. I meant, WHY did Capcom do any of those things? I do not see their end goal. Hopefully I'll find out soon, lol.

 

[JJvercetti]

https://twitter.com/Frostdiener/status/846968708492935168?
A Data mined list of moves that the counter works against, I think there are some moves that are not on the list that can get countered but testing is needed.

EDIT: Only has one strength, 4 frames startup, 12 active frames and 37 frames recovery.

 

[JJvercetti]

Here is a vid by Slaynman showing moves that will blow up a lot of frametraps by multiple characters, Hope it helps.

 

[JJvercetti]

@Paul the Octopus (tagging you because Im sure you said you used Birdie) If you dont mind, can you explain your thoughts and stuff when you play in the neutral against Zangief?

 

[JJvercetti]

Possible Season 2 combo trials for Gief?

 

[Paul the Octopus]

@Paul the Octopus (tagging you because Im sure you said you used Birdie) If you dont mind, can you explain your thoughts and stuff when you play in the neutral against Zangief?

Sure, I think Birdie wins the neutral convincingly against Gief with good reactive play. I try to stand at a range where my cr hp anti airs well and basically I wait for Gief to do something. If he jumps, I anti air. If he throws out a st hp, I whiff punish with st mp. If he dashes or knees, I check with cr lp. Finally, if Gief plays too passive, I back up and v skill.

I think as Zangief you want to play close enough to Birdie that he doesn't get free v skills all day, but you need to be patient, and try to gauge what I'm focusing on. If I'm looking for a jump, your more likely to get away with more forward movement. If I'm trying too hard to whiff punish st hp, you can probably sneak in a dash.

Does that answer your question?

 

[JJvercetti]

Sure, I think Birdie wins the neutral convincingly against Gief with good reactive play. I try to stand at a range where my cr hp anti airs well and basically I wait for Gief to do something. If he jumps, I anti air. If he throws out a st hp, I whiff punish with st mp. If he dashes or knees, I check with cr lp. Finally, if Gief plays too passive, I back up and v skill.

I think as Zangief you want to play close enough to Birdie that he doesn't get free v skills all day, but you need to be patient, and try to gauge what I'm focusing on. If I'm looking for a jump, your more likely to get away with more forward movement. If I'm trying too hard to whiff punish st hp, you can probably sneak in a dash.

Does that answer your question?

Yeah that is what I was thinking, I also have to work on looking for the Ravager (Whatever that dolphin dive move is called) I always seem to get caught out by that. Thanks for your insight.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Yeah that is what I was thinking, I also have to work on looking for the Ravager (Whatever that dolphin dive move is called) I always seem to get caught out by that. Thanks for your insight.

If you play one who is revenger happy, I think just try and get into the range where he likes to attempt it, wait for it, and punish it.

IMO Birdie actually shouldn't do any revengers in this match up (he's giving up the neutral that he wins, and risking a knockdown into death) unless he's punishing parry attempts with ex revenger.

 

[JJvercetti]

If you play one who is revenger happy, I think just try and get into the range where he likes to attempt it, wait for it, and punish it.

IMO Birdie actually shouldn't do any revengers in this match up (he's giving up the neutral that he wins, and risking a knockdown into death) unless he's punishing parry attempts with ex revenger.

That is just my personal problem. I always get caught by it. I am working on it but it is frustrating for me when it happens.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

That is just my personal problem. I always get caught by it. I am working on it but it is frustrating for me when it happens.

Birdie is an odd character because he has super solid tools and super gimmicky ones as well.

The ones who just abuse the gimmicks can be really frustrating before you get enough experience to beat it - then you'll never lose.