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Question - Kung Lao Does Kung Lao have any frame traps?

xMEECH

xMEECH

Dyslexic
Wtf? Yes, he does

The only true meterless frame traps are 44 or F34 into d1. Both are +2 and d1 is 7 frames so nobody in the cast can poke out of them.

The rest are only frame traps against characters without 6 frame low pokes. F3, S1 and 11 are +1 so your d1 will beat everything that isn't a 6 frame low poke, and you'll trade with 6 frame pokes. D1 is +15 on hit so you'll still be slightly plus if you trade with scorpions d1 (+11 on hit) or Kotal kahns d1 or d4 (+14 and +13).

Also b1 is 0 on block so you can frametrap dvorah and tremor with it, since both of them only have 8 frame low pokes.

You can spend meter in tempest on exdb1 to be +7. You can frametrap the whole cast with your d4 and d1, and even your d3 against characters without a 6f low poke.

In buzz saw you have exbf2 which is a high but can jail from some strings like 112124. It's +4 so you can frametrap the whole cast with d1 and d4.

In hat trick, the hat call back (hcb) is plus on block if it travels a certain distance before hitting the opponent. Meter burned hcb is +14 on block even if it was right underneath them, and you can jail plenty of stuff from being that plus.

Also if you're feeling confident/maniac you can instant air divekick and if your execution is on point can beat plenty of pokes from these frametraps as well, except you'll get a full combo not just the hit adv of a poke.

Dunno why people are saying Kung Lao doesn't have frametraps.
 
myri

myri

Time Warrior
xMEECH said:
Wtf? Yes, he does

The only true meterless frame traps are 44 or F34 into d1. Both are +2 and d1 is 7 frames so nobody in the cast can poke out of them.

The rest are only frame traps against characters without 6 frame low pokes. F3, S1 and 11 are +1 so your d1 will beat everything that isn't a 6 frame low poke, and you'll trade with 6 frame pokes. D1 is +15 on hit so you'll still be slightly plus if you trade with scorpions d1 (+11 on hit) or Kotal kahns d1 or d4 (+14 and +13).

Also b1 is 0 on block so you can frametrap dvorah and tremor with it, since both of them only have 8 frame low pokes.

You can spend meter in tempest on exdb1 to be +7. You can frametrap the whole cast with your d4 and d1, and even your d3 against characters without a 6f low poke.

In buzz saw you have exbf2 which is a high but can jail from some strings like 112124. It's +4 so you can frametrap the whole cast with d1 and d4.

In hat trick, the hat call back (hcb) is plus on block if it travels a certain distance before hitting the opponent. Meter burned hcb is +14 on block even if it was right underneath them, and you can jail plenty of stuff from being that plus.

Also if you're feeling confident/maniac you can instant air divekick and if your execution is on point can beat plenty of pokes from these frametraps as well, except you'll get a full combo not just the hit adv of a poke.

Dunno why people are saying Kung Lao doesn't have frametraps.
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I don't think you quite understand how a frame trap works.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
myri said:
Right, but your opponent can jump, back dash or even armour out of all of these options, your pressure is far from guaranteed.
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... that's what a frame trap is though.

Otherwise it's a blockstring, not a frame trap.

For example;

Jacqui's 1212 (+2 on block) into s4 (8 frames) is a frame trap.

It introduces a gap which entices the opponent to press buttons, but my following button will beat out their button. If there was no gap (such as high tech 121~qbrc, 121) it would be a block string, not a frame trap.
 
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myri

myri

Time Warrior
Pan1cMode said:
... that's what a frame trap is though.

Otherwise it's a blockstring, not a frame trap.

For example;

Jacqui's 1212 (+2 on block) into s4 (8 frames) is a frame trap.

It introduces a gap which entices the opponent to press buttons, but my button will beat out their's. If there was no gap (such as high tech 121~qbrc, 121) it would be a block string, not a frame trap.
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Huh alright, I guess I misunderstood then.

edit: I guess I should say that I was under the impression that frame trap actually meant you were, y'know trapped, but seems like that isn't the case. So yeah I was wrong. Learn something new every day.
 
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Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The real answer should've been

KL has no much of reliable frame traps, he has too many minus moves even if some of his buttons or specials are minus, that would be totally okay if he had a safe crushing move that could by pass some of the opponent's counters or if his evasive options worked well against most of them.

Problem is, the only crush move he has its the dive kick option which forces you to jump backwards in most of your frametraps and react to light speed pokes with barely any whiff recovery and hope to punish them for a b12~spin conversion.

Its a huge gamble and doesn't really fit the playstyle of many if not perfect legend which is a high risk taker by nature and doesn't really pay that well specially if you are more like a surgical blade rather than a Hammer.

Besides, jumping loses to 11f, backdash loses to 9 and blocking losing to throws which are 10f, you cannot option select any, the reaction time to beat any of those need to be instant and hope for the best.


Frame traps can be either plus or minus, as long as characters that have them have a crush option to counter the opponent's counters.

The best KL is Buzzsaw currently, he has a 18f oh and a 18f low, and he can switch in between has a poke or 50-50 starter anywhere on the screen

Tempest has hat spin to cover the holes, so you get to walk at will before your opponent is able to do anything about it, besides, hat spin with a moving KL becomes plus.

Hat Trick its not for you, just give up, placing hat traps in neutral is as yolo as it gets, unless you get a knockdown, don't use it.
 
xMEECH

xMEECH

Dyslexic
myri said:
Right, but your opponent can jump, back dash or even armour out of all of these options, your pressure is far from guaranteed.
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So if it doesn't jail it's not a frametrap..? Isn't that the distinction between a true blockstring and a frametrap, a frametrap you can't poke out of but there's a gap to armor or backdash?

Kung Lao has frametraps
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
xMEECH said:
? If you do something minus on block, how can that be a frametrap?
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If your next move has crushing proprieties to counter their counter its still a frame trap, like his dive kick for example, if he does 11212 he is at -3, if you try to answer him with a d3 or d1 to keep him in check and he jumps back and dive kicks it he will crush your poke into a full combo.

Before we used to have it with armor, but now that's gone, some characters have other ways to crush counters, scorpion can frame trap ppl with -5 moves because his TP vanishes in 6f, unless you have a 4f startup move, his TP will crush anything.
 
xMEECH

xMEECH

Dyslexic
Eddy Wang said:
If your next move has crushing proprieties to counter their counter its still a frame trap, like his dive kick for example, if he does 11212 he is at -3, if you try to answer him with a d3 or d1 to keep him in check and he jumps back and dive kicks it he will crush your poke into a full combo.

Before we used to have it with armor, but now that's gone, some characters have other ways to crush counters, scorpion can frame trap ppl with -5 moves because his TP vanishes in 6f, unless you have a 4f startup move, his TP will crush anything.
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I wouldn't call that a frame trap as much as I would call it a whiff punish. I mean think about it, your divekick isn't hitting them before their poke gets their active frames out, your just making their active frames whiff and hitting them during their recovery frames.

But now I got what you meant.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
xMEECH said:
I wouldn't call that a frame trap as much as I would call it a whiff punish. I mean think about it, your divekick isn't hitting them before their poke gets their active frames out, your just making their active frames whiff and hitting them during their recovery frames.

But now I got what you meant.
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when your opponent can still crush your options despite not being exactly his turn is what makes it a frame trap.

Not every frame trap needs to be plus on bock.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
myri said:
Huh alright, I guess I misunderstood then.

edit: I guess I should say that I was under the impression that frame trap actually meant you were, y'know trapped, but seems like that isn't the case. So yeah I was wrong. Learn something new every day.
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Nah. Just trapped into not being able to attack back.

So +1 on a character with a 6f poke is a frame trap
 
T

T-box88

Mortal
myri said:
Huh alright, I guess I misunderstood then.

edit: I guess I should say that I was under the impression that frame trap actually meant you were, y'know trapped, but seems like that isn't the case. So yeah I was wrong. Learn something new every day.
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Its because people define true block strings as either block strings or gapless frame trap pressure (like dvora and jhonny) so i can see the misunderstanding for sure, but your not entirely wrong bud
 
T

T-box88

Mortal
myri said:
Huh alright, I guess I misunderstood then.

edit: I guess I should say that I was under the impression that frame trap actually meant you were, y'know trapped, but seems like that isn't the case. So yeah I was wrong. Learn something new every day.
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Im more inclined to agree with you anyway, the frame traps listed above i like to call those pseudo frame traps cuz your opponent still has options (like back dashing or OS) true frame traps (or true block strings, w/e) are gapless and crush all your opponents options. Imo anyway. But i was at one point a dvora main, and thats why i think this way lol
 
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