Question - Kung Lao Does Kung Lao have any frame traps?

[Johnny Based Cage]

Thank heavens for @xMEECH & co. in this thread leading the crusade against the insane amount of misinformation being spread by a bunch of people who haven't the slightest fucking clue what they are talking about and yet continue to spout off at the mouth for some godawful reason. You the real MVP's.

 

[T-box88]

Block strings and frame traps are by definition not the same and not up to personal interpretation.

If something has a gap big enough for you to poke (not punish your opponent, but your fastest poke would beat their fastest poke), it's not a frame trap. To counter what eddy wang said, if your opponent has a way to make one of your moves whiff and whiff punish them, that does not make something a frame trap, especially when the defender has a option to hit you out of your attempted whiff punish.

If something has a gap but your fastest button cannot beat your opponents fastest button, it's a frame trap. You can only escape a frame trap by using invincibility frames or armor, or by blocking. Frame traps by definition do need to have a gap, but only to allow invincibility frames or armor, not normal moves. In the gap of a frame trap, you don't have enough frame advantage for any of your unarmored or non-invincible moves to startup.

If something has no gap for you to even use invincibility frames or armor, it's a blockstring/"true blockstring". The only options are block correctly or get hit by what comes next.

These are not up to personal interpretation and are not even new terms in the FGC.

It doesnt matter man, the point is iknow what people are getting at. I can respect it

 

[Baconlord]

what was the topic of this thread again?

 

[WiseM0nkey]

what was the topic of this thread again?

That kung lao is top 1 in the game cause hat

 

[Eddy Wang]

what was the topic of this thread again?

The topic was either KL has a frame trap or not, and just developed into something else


and actually, @xMEECH is correct i made a mistake, all frame traps are plus because it cannot be interrupted by buttons alone, also when i tried to go a little deeper in the concept i got confused, so my english still sucks, i made a mistake.

When i said not all frame traps needs to be plus, the ones that aren't plus are still going to frametrap something else which it cannot be interrupted by pure or mere normals in that particular situation, this is what i failed to mention.

like Skarlet in MK9, d4~red dash was -3 on block, but d4~red dash~slide was a bockstring, so it would frame trap against poking retaliation since it was basically a blockstring so he could literally harass some chars with late slides to open new ways to apply pressure which was basically the source of most her basis in pressure.

So HT kL would have a frame trap against 11f mids if his hat trap was 20f recovery instead of 25, which would make his 112124~hat trap pressure -1 on block, but with imediate call back would pull the hat on the 9th frame instead blocking throws and 11f mids to even be able to be used against, while leaving him at -1 to avoid pokes and jabs much easier when the hat is not called back.

right now is -6 so immediate call backs don't frame trap even mids and he is put on a much worse situation.

good thread actually.

 

[kabelfritz]

the developement of his poularity makes it look like he has a fame trap

 

[llabslb]

So jump back divekick is a frame trap?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

If your next move has crushing proprieties to counter their counter its still a frame trap, like his dive kick for example, if he does 11212 he is at -3, if you try to answer him with a d3 or d1 to keep him in check and he jumps back and dive kicks it he will crush your poke into a full combo.

Before we used to have it with armor, but now that's gone, some characters have other ways to crush counters, scorpion can frame trap ppl with -5 moves because his TP vanishes in 6f, unless you have a 4f startup move, his TP will crush anything.

Did you really just suggest to spin on a jumping back lao on a -3 move thinking dive kick its his the best bet?


take as you will, frame traps don't need to be plus, the concept of frame trap is, "if you press a button on a wrong instance you think you could take the advantage of, the opponent as equal chance to punish your crush attempt with a counter" afaik that is a frame trap.


Kabal NDC pressure in MK9 was a set of frame traps, where his F3~NDC or B1~NDC where all +1 but doing sequential he had an actual gap of 12 frames, so you could still hit kabal out with a 10f jab into a combo starter even with F32~NDC which was +2 and leaved an 11f gap.

But when he did a d3 out of the NDC and you blocked it, he was at -7, but trying to hit him with anything after than you probably get you killed, because he had a 9f mid to mask that number, a flash parry out of NDC to counter your own armor atempt, this is where the frame trap was.


Take Jin in Tekken for example:
F4~F was recently made +2 on block, but even when it was -2 he could still crush highs by doing 1+2 after doing F4~f on block to beat ppl trying to answer to him with a high, so Namco not only buffed F4~F to be +2 on block, but they made his F4 -5 on block and gave him a launching EWHF

Now Jin can poke all day with F4 without going into stance to ppl can press buttons thinking he is going into stance and punish it, and when he goes he has less chances of missing because he has a high crushing move, a parry that avoid immediate mids after canceling, and he is still at -1 when he cancels the stance after F4.

Kabal had a 9f mid combo starter, he could punish ppl trying to poke/combo out of him after a d3, the fastest pokes in MK9 with d3 were all 7f lows, you trying to respond kabal with a jab was just a super high risk since he is canceling NDC which if he did a full commitment there wasn't a gap.

My opinion haven't changed, not all frame traps needs to be plus, and some of them even need to be minus so your opponent gets invited to press buttons, only scrubs press buttons on plus pressure options.

Jin doesn't low poke, he launches ppl because his 1+2 crushes highs despite him being minus, its like a meterless armored launcher, same as his f4 launches on Counter Hit despite being a -5 on block move.

This is absolutely terrible info and isn't correct. Please do not buy any of this bs

 

[Daemantalo]

I'm pretty sure that doing something negative which attempts to capitalize off of an opponent tapping another button is a bait, no? Staggers don't equal frame traps in my book unless they are plus staggers.

 

[xMEECH]

So jump back divekick is a frame trap?

Ye just like jumping out of tick throws

 

[IrishMantis]

Staggers would fall into category so yeah he has a lot.

People over complicating it

When you do something to make them think it's their turn, you bait them and blowing them up

It doesn't necessary have to + either

Would always love to set up a "FG fundament knowledge" certification.

I can see a lot of fails already

 

[1man3letters]

When you do something to make them think it's their turn, you bait them and blowing them up

It doesn't necessary have to + either

tremors b2 <3

Would always love to set up a "FG fundament knowledge" certification.

I can see a lot of fails already

you better hope knowing the right variation names isnt on that test or your in trouble

 

[Eddy Wang]

I don't always suck, but sometimes i do, like in this thread.