Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

What is wrong with Injustice 2 (and NRS games)

Belial

Belial

Kombatant
Tweedy said:
Saltface has more results in Soul Calibur than this guy. The major that he won was basically a local. He's not ranked in the top 100 on SCV which is where his few results have come from.

Do not come at me on this because I just went HARD in the research. Just walk away.
Click to expand...
I am one of the best and most known SC players in the world. I even have a character ghost named after me in SCV. The fact Im not placed high enough on 8WR rankings its just these tournaments are mentioned are like the only I've travelled to. If MM counts for you, I dont think there are people I didnt beat.

Ask any guy in SCV "top-10" about me and they will tell you who I am. Damn, like there are people in SCV who dont know who I am. When people say "Mitsurugi" they think "Belial".

You are the one butthurt because I taunted you a little, Sweedy, I suggest you point your "research" towards executing stanky leg.
 
Last edited:
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
SonicBoomBrad said:
SF forum? What's that? All the tech is on twitter bro.
Click to expand...
Shoryuken, Eventhubs, and places where people talk about the game in general and its competitive scene. They are often negative on SF5 as a game.

A fair share of Twitter shots have been taken at SF5 game as well (especially after this most recent patch, but really all throughout its life). In short, people criticizing their own game is nothing new. They do it because they're passionate about their own game and developer.
 
JDM

JDM

Warrior
While I agree NRS does design shit poorly, I don't care honestly.

You cannot force something like "choose 2 or 3" to make a game good. Not every game has to follow the same formula. There's a reason the MVC series has garnered such a huge following and playerbase. Broken shit is fun to play. Not everyone likes to play fair games like SF.

NRS games have their own design, they don't need to change it up for anyone in all honesty. MKX was fun, poorly designed imo but I know a lot of people who love it. GOOD is subjective, fun is subjective, let NRS have their own way of creating games, and if you don't like them play something else. It's simple.

I don't know one game out that is considered great by everyone who talks of it. All current and past games have flaws, it's just what you find fun.
 
HateMe!

HateMe!

Noob
Btw. why do you guys think that if the game has to cater to the casual audience then it can't be good competitively? It's actually the other way around. Casuals will mash 2 specials all game with the coolest looking character regardless if it's Guilty Gear or MK.
That is the exact reason why this game COULD be good competitively, but they simply have no idea how to do it, as proven many times already - They're just bad at making fighters.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
STRYKIE said:
I made a status update asking who in MKX actually wields BOTH an overhead and low starter that are advantage on block, and the total number (bearing in mind there are 100 variations in the game) could be counted on one hand.
Click to expand...
1. High Tech (only legit one with no gap and not stage positioning dependen that leads to full combo)

2. Special Forces (Gapless: b1~blck+1 and b332~blck+1, with gaps using blck+4 to launch for full combo)

3. Summoner Quan (gapless with ex skull in corner, with gaps using ex rune midscreen)

4. Smoke (with gaps using ex smoke bomb)

5. Ronin (gapless with ex df3)

6. Shirai Ryu (with gaps using ex kunai)

7. Swarm Queen (with gaps)

8. Bojutsu (with gaps using ex bow sway)

Are there others I'm missing? Regardless, I agree with your main point.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Pan1cMode said:
1. High Tech (only legit one with no gap and not stage positioning dependen that leads to full combo)

2. Special Forces (Gapless: b1~blck+1 and b332~blck+1, with gaps using blck+4 to launch for full combo)

3. Summoner Quan (gapless with ex skull in corner, with gaps using ex rune midscreen)

4. Smoke (with gaps using ex smoke bomb)

5. Ronin (gapless with ex df3)

6. Shirai Ryu (with gaps using ex kunai)

7. Swarm Queen (with gaps)

8. Bojutsu (with gaps using ex bow sway)

Are there others I'm missing? Regardless, I agree with your main point.
Click to expand...
I was speaking more gapless and can be used unconditionally (didnt include stuff like SF Drone or Summoner bat since they're on a timer).

With that I think my list looked something like this: (keep in mind this list was made during pre-patch)
1) Cutthroat Kano (B1/B3 EX Power UP)
2) Spectral Ermac (EX IA Soul Blast/B3 Soul Ascension
3) Deceptive Reptile (B2/F3 EX Invis)
4) High Tech Jacqui (B2/B3 Quick Burst Run Cancel)
5) Cyrax Triborg (B1/B3 EX Saw Blade)

Since you mentioned it what's D'Vorah's plus low starter? I know F22 WGRC was plus on block but I've never heard of her having a plus low starter.
 
Belial

Belial

Kombatant
HateMe! said:
Btw. why do you guys think that if the game has to cater to the casual audience then it can't be good competitively? It's actually the other way around. Casuals will mash 2 specials all game with the coolest looking character regardless if it's Guilty Gear or MK.
That is the exact reason why this game COULD be good competitively, but they simply have no idea how to do it, as proven many times already - They're just bad at making fighters.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that same characters doing same 2 moves over and over again isn't good for stream audience. Actually NRS ignores some of the core "hype" mechanics, such as comeback. No matter you're a pro or noob watching sf ultra turn match around is hype, unlike being bashed to death from chip damage in the corner w/o chance for comeback. As a pro gamer I would prefer punishing losing player (what NRS does) but from casual/viewer perspective it's a good thing. So there are many things that are not good competitive-wise and good casual-wise, but 2-move characters is not among them.
 
WiseM0nkey

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
STRYKIE said:
I was speaking more gapless and can be used unconditionally (didnt include stuff like SF Drone or Summoner bat since they're on a timer).

With that I think my list looked something like this: (keep in mind this list was made during pre-patch)
1) Cutthroat Kano (B1/B3 EX Power UP)
2) Spectral Ermac (EX IA Soul Blast/B3 Soul Ascension
3) Deceptive Reptile (B2/F3 EX Invis)
4) High Tech Jacqui (B2/B3 Quick Burst Run Cancel)
5) Cyrax Triborg (B1/B3 EX Saw Blade)

Since you mentioned it what's D'Vorah's plus low starter? I know F22 WGRC was plus on block but I've never heard of her having a plus low starter.
Click to expand...
B3 ex invis is minus and has a gap though...
 
HateMe!

HateMe!

Noob
Belial said:
I'm pretty sure that same characters doing same 2 moves over and over again isn't good for stream audience.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I meant that casual players play that way, never learn system mechanics, etc. For them it's just what looks/feels cool. I'm not suggesting creating '2 special' characters.
Casuals are gonna buy MK because it's MK, they don't really care about P1 advantage, frame data and shit like that. They just mash.
That means you could make a decent fighting game AND make the casuals love the game.
 
Last edited:
PizzaMasta

PizzaMasta

Hellblazer
shura30 said:
you missed the part where I said: "that usually still works in the favour of the attacker" that turns the 'drawback that the attacker MUST account for" moot

most of the times gaps can only be backdashed or contested on a stagger read by generally a poke

the attacker still has the better outcome on the situation: at worst the neutral is reset, he may get clipped by a 1% damage poke and has to eventually hold a blockstring OR he clips with the followup any attempt of retaliation and gets mad plus on block or an hitconfirm on hit possibly into the same situation again
Click to expand...
Just curious, are pokes still cancellable into specials? Because if so, then that little 1% blowup can become a 15-20% response to a couple of blocked hits. Does change the situation quite a bit.
 
Z

Zur-En-Arrh

Noob
I agree with the text in most points, and most importantly that you've come up and said what is making the game less fun for you. Because with the beta the best time to cry out for patches, balancing, etc, is right now, before the game is released and NRS starts patching the game all the time because the release version is almost broken. The only thing I kinda disagree with you it the "Better have a cast of terrible char then one with OP char if you can't have a balanced one". I see in a way that top tiers most of the time bring somewhat of a fun in the game, because the characters are strong and they being challenged by smart players that knows the match up brings the hype in tournaments, makes people cheer for player X or Y. Every game needs a top and a low tier, what I think must be discussed is the gap between these tiers (which is the big problem of NRS). Looking on other games for inspiration is a dangerous thing, I would've wanted NRS to come up with their own resolution for it. Because NRS games have a completely different take on how footsies work for what I saw in other fighters, so balancing according to other game's logic looks dangerous (I may be wrong, correct me if you please). Taking all the hating down, it was a good topic you put up good points that maybe NRS can listen to us and help I2 so that it comes with a good release.
 
Ragnarök Tyr

Ragnarök Tyr

Warrior
I can attest that Belial is a respected player in the Soul Calibur community. His name is usually brought up when he'd come over here as someone likely to make it far into the brackets, along the likes of Xephukai, Hawkeye, Lost Providence, Lolo, Blueboy etc
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Zur-En-Arrh said:
I see in a way that top tiers most of the time bring somewhat of a fun in the game...
Click to expand...
Tbh that depends on design. Thing is, NRS have a history of creating two types of "bad" top-tiers:

1) Ones that have a few strong moves that are universal enough that you can't go wrong with them. "OP" happens when said character doesn't have serious downsides and can basically spam his way to win (F23 EVO anyone?) regardless of what his opponent could do if he wasn't too busy being controlled so hard. Characters such as these hardly make the game more fun. People will use them to win, but that's about it.

2) Diverse "can do it all" characters. Now, these may be fun to watch for a while, but when it comes to NRS games, a lot of their less conventional characters (or occasional specialist that isn't following current game's trend) have at least one serious weakness. And, so happens that weaknesses can be easily exploited by having just right hard-countering move. Such characters tend to quickly make competitive list less diverse simply because how many characters they can counter. Think MMH who could zone many of CC characters out while completely destroying zoning of many others.

So, it boils down to the fact that in NRS games, "everyone is OP" works poorly because large portions of the roster get hard countered and cannot play their game against other seemingly equally strong characters that just happen to have a right tool of two.

There are game where "everyone is OP" kind of works. KI characters, for example, are absolutely bonkers if you compare them to characters in other FGs outside of respective games contexts. But at least basic mech of the game makes sure you can always do at least something and have a chance to get your own game going - no matter how insane opponent's offence is, it won't neuter free combo breakers; no matter what gap-free pressure and plus frames opponent has, it's punishable on a read; there's almost always some kind of invulnerable move or armor you can use knowing opponent's options in hes current position.
So maybe NRS games could work too if they had better and, importantly, more interactive defensive options?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.