Street Fighter V General Discussion

[B. Shazzy]

another Ken player is coming your way lul

 

[super mario]

After the opponent blocks f+HP you're +3 so a follow-up MP will beat any of their normals. This means they can't throw out an attack and pretty much have to block yours if you decide to throw it out.

If they do block though, your command grab will hit, should you throw that out instead. That is the mix-up.

When you are + enough to guarantee your normals will beat theirs, they have to guess whether you're going to throw those normals out and block them or guess whether you're going to read that they'll block and command grab instead.

The rest of his post was just about follow-ups you can do should you land a MP bc they didn't respect your + frames or misread that you'd command grab them. But the primary mix-up is will I get thrown or will he go into more normals that I have to block, essentially.

 

[Undeadjim]

@super mario Firstly, lol at the wiki C&P but I can see you mean well with your comments. Listen to the people here, watch footage of top level Alex's and break down their tactics instead of trying to find your own. You need to be able to grasp the concepts people are relaying in to you rather than this wild ride of posting in the nicest way terrible 'mixups'

Keep up the grind.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

so basically what u saying is i did a mixup technically speaking but not a good one.

same thing i said to jjvercetti

It should also be noted that anyone with a reversal, once seeing this, could just mash the shit out it and it would auto-catch you during the gaps. That can be said for a lot of things, dont get me wrong.. I'm just adding that in. Its actually kinda frightening how many people just mash reversals during block strings to catch you. Of course, once YOU see that, you bait it and make them pay.

Another example of a 50/50 with Alex is if your opponent blocks a lariat. You're +3 and have two choices, the opponent has to guess between them. You can st.mp in to whatever combo/blockstring/buttons or throw out an SPD. Your opponent has to make a legit guess between jumping out of the SPD, or blocking the buttons. That is a 50/50 mixup.

Now, my main Vega *seems* to have the back walk speed to walk out of that. My buddy and I tested it a little, but I want to run it a little more before I go around claiming it as gospel.. BUt when he lariats me, I just hold back to block and if he goes for SPD I walk out of range in time to avoid it. Even EX. He tried light SPD as well. I dont know what,if any, other characters can do that or not. But its something to keep in mind. and even if it turns out its not 'real', the Alex has to be crazy on point to land it, because I walk out of that mixup all the time. Of course walking out loses me the chance to read the SPD and NJ it for a nasty 360+ damage 1bar punish.. But still. When Alex has momentum I'd rather run like a bitch than let him stun me off the second damn combo.

I'll also parrot what others have said about the mixup you listed, it can all be blocked low and unless they are low enough in life that an OH is a real and honest threat, everyone is going to block low there, meaning highs, mids, lows, etc, all get eaten up with the same defensive option. I dont have to guess at all. Just block it out. I mean, you WILL catch people with it, because it seems like everyone in SFV is ALWAYS hitting every button they have forever all the time, but against an even half decent player you wont get anything off that except punched in the face.. and tactics designed to beat bad players arent really something you want to spend time learning IMO.

Does Alex get anything off his OH on counterhit?

 

[super mario]

It should also be noted that anyone with a reversal, once seeing this, could just mash the shit out it and it would auto-catch you during the gaps. That can be said for a lot of things, dont get me wrong.. I'm just adding that in. Its actually kinda frightening how many people just mash reversals during block strings to catch you. Of course, once YOU see that, you bait it and make them pay.

Another example of a 50/50 with Alex is if your opponent blocks a lariat. You're +3 and have two choices, the opponent has to guess between them. You can st.mp in to whatever combo/blockstring/buttons or throw out an SPD. Your opponent has to make a legit guess between jumping out of the SPD, or blocking the buttons. That is a 50/50 mixup.

Now, my main Vega *seems* to have the back walk speed to walk out of that. My buddy and I tested it a little, but I want to run it a little more before I go around claiming it as gospel.. BUt when he lariats me, I just hold back to block and if he goes for SPD I walk out of range in time to avoid it. Even EX. He tried light SPD as well. I dont know what,if any, other characters can do that or not. But its something to keep in mind. and even if it turns out its not 'real', the Alex has to be crazy on point to land it, because I walk out of that mixup all the time. Of course walking out loses me the chance to read the SPD and NJ it for a nasty 360+ damage 1bar punish.. But still. When Alex has momentum I'd rather run like a bitch than let him stun me off the second damn combo.

I'll also parrot what others have said about the mixup you listed, it can all be blocked low and unless they are low enough in life that an OH is a real and honest threat, everyone is going to block low there, meaning highs, mids, lows, etc, all get eaten up with the same defensive option. I dont have to guess at all. Just block it out. I mean, you WILL catch people with it, because it seems like everyone in SFV is ALWAYS hitting every button they have forever all the time, but against an even half decent player you wont get anything off that except punched in the face.. and tactics designed to beat bad players arent really something you want to spend time learning IMO.

Does Alex get anything off his OH on counterhit?

so this is not a mixup

 

[LiangHuBBB]

its like almost everyone has figured out Nash by now on high lvl play yet I got a feeling Nash will receive the most nerfs with an upcoming balance patch

 

[FL Rushdown]

so this is not a mixup

its a reset. But it's a reset that does less dmg than finishing the combo would do so it's kinda whack unless you're doing it out of a stun where scaling would gimp your dmg.

 

[Aramonde]

So im looking at the FAT app and forgot how to read frame data lol. If a move is minus on block i look at my start up frames to punish right?

 

[LionHeart]

So im looking at the FAT app and forgot how to read frame data lol. If a move is minus on block i look at my start up frames to punish right?

Right.

I believe FAT added a feature, where if you select your character and the character you're playing against, punishable moves will have red background on their frame data.

 

[Aramonde]

Right.

I believe FAT added a feature, where if you select your character and the character you're playing against, punishable moves will have red background on their frame data.

Okay so Nash's knee bazooka is -5 and Guile's fastest normal is 4 frames. So i have 1 frame to punish that move?

 

[buyacushun]

Okay so Nash's knee bazooka is -5 and Guile's fastest normal is 4 frames. So i have 1 frame to punish that move?

2 frames. If it was 5f startup it would be a 1f punish. The last startup frame = the first active frame. I don't know if that's only street fighter.

 

[NaCl man]

Okay so Nash's knee bazooka is -5 and Guile's fastest normal is 4 frames. So i have 1 frame to punish that move?

Also depends on distance. sfv frame data isnt always as it seems.

 

[LionHeart]

Okay so Nash's knee bazooka is -5 and Guile's fastest normal is 4 frames. So i have 1 frame to punish that move?

Knee Bazooka can hit meaty/on later active frames and be unpunishable/plus. Be aware of that and don't try to cr.lp xx Flashkick every time.

 

[@MylesWright_]

I miss killing people for jumping. Now the tables have turned and you die for anti-airing

 

[FL Rushdown]

I miss killing people for jumping. Now the tables have turned and you die for anti-airing

i kill people for jumping ALL the time. Jump on wake up? Ima ex airplane you. Neutral jump to avoid my cr hp? See above. Jump at me? Cr mp is the easiest anti air I've ever had. Quit crying Myles and work on improving.

Hell, I've seen people anti air with buttons into specials, into another special, into a CA. Pick Urien and do 40% anti airs.

 

[buyacushun]

i kill people for jumping ALL the time. Jump on wake up? Ima ex airplane you. Neutral jump to avoid my cr hp? See above. Jump at me? Cr mp is the easiest anti air I've ever had. Quit crying Myles and work on improving.

Hell, I've seen people anti air with buttons into specials, into another special, into a CA. Pick Urien and do 40% anti airs.

You feel the timing for cr.MP is kind of specific?

 

[FL Rushdown]

You feel the timing for cr.MP is kind of specific?

gotta do it early or on a far jump in. If they jump from up close I usually just roll out. Seems kinda hard to anti air with her at point blank so escape into trip guard is usually what I go for.

 

[buyacushun]

gotta do it early or on a far jump in. If they jump from up close I usually just roll out. Seems kinda hard to anti air with her at point blank so escape into trip guard is usually what I go for.

Yeah I've been doing the same. I can't get the trip guard. but I'll try to mount an offense. My favorite is when people jump on me in the corner. We just trade places HaHa.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

@FL Rushdown @buyacushun
Hey can you tic throw with Mika? As in blocked jab~command grab? Or do you have to wait a little before you can command grab? Also what are the different ranges or are all command grab buttons the same?

 

[FL Rushdown]

@FL Rushdown @buyacushun
Hey can you tic throw with Mika? As in blocked jab~command grab? Or do you have to wait a little before you can command grab? Also what are the different ranges or are all command grab buttons the same?

she can only tick off a st lp if they've got a 3 frame normal. Otherwise a mashed 3 framer will beat her throw/command grab after cr lk/lp.

That being said it's generally safe to go for them unless you notice your opponent mashes a lot, in which case you can punish that.

As far as ranges go I'm pretty sure it's ex punches, lp, mp, ex kicks, hp, lk, mk, hk. From furthest to closest.

Edit: forgot to mention a charged dropkick into a command grab works, and so does f hp into ex punch command grab.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

she can only tick off a st lp if they've got a 3 frame normal. Otherwise a mashed 3 framer will beat her throw/command grab after cr lk/lp.

That being said it's generally safe to go for them unless you notice your opponent mashes a lot, in which case you can punish that.

As far as ranges go I'm pretty sure it's ex punches, lp, mp, ex kicks, hp, lk, mk, hk. From furthest to closest.

Edit: forgot to mention a charged dropkick into a command grab works, and so does f hp into ex punch command grab.

In the corner when I get to punish my opponent (which rarely happens lol) I do f.strong~f.strong (peach press?) and when they bounce back I do f.fierce,cr.strong, then I try to do any command grab but only get it like 1/10 times. Is there a timing for that? Like after the crouching strong they're coming down so what's the timing?

 

[FL Rushdown]

In the corner when I get to punish my opponent (which rarely happens lol) I do f.strong~f.strong (peach press?) and when they bounce back I do f.fierce,cr.strong, then I try to do any command grab but only get it like 1/10 times. Is there a timing for that? Like after the crouching strong they're coming down so what's the timing?

if you counter hit them in the corner with f hp do another f hp into a cr mp. If you do it high enough you get to choose which side they land on, you can do the same off a non ch f hp if you're paying attention too. Less dmg but the mixup is worth it. There are some wonky side switches you can do with f hp into peaches but they're unreliable and easier to spot.

And cr mp isn't a tick on hit or block. You can go for it but it's interruptible if they've got a 3 frame normal. Out of the air the timing is hard to get down but it just takes practice. You gotta do it before they land, but just barely. Unfortunately since the timing changes based on when you do the cr mp you can't set it up and you just gotta learn it visually.

 

[Kroaken]

its like almost everyone has figured out Nash by now on high lvl play yet I got a feeling Nash will receive the most nerfs with an upcoming balance patch

Nah. Chun will get it the worst.

Providing the world is fair and just lol.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

if you counter hit them in the corner with f hp do another f hp into a cr mp. If you do it high enough you get to choose which side they land on, you can do the same off a non ch f hp if you're paying attention too. Less dmg but the mixup is worth it. There are some wonky side switches you can do with f hp into peaches but they're unreliable and easier to spot.

And cr mp isn't a tick on hit or block. You can go for it but it's interruptible if they've got a 3 frame normal. Out of the air the timing is hard to get down but it just takes practice. You gotta do it before they land, but just barely. Unfortunately since the timing changes based on when you do the cr mp you can't set it up and you just gotta learn it visually.

Ah ok but do you mean on cc or just counter hit? Also I mean after the passion press when they bounce back can I do the f.fierce,cr.strong,command grab?

 

[Kroaken]

i kill people for jumping ALL the time. Jump on wake up? Ima ex airplane you. Neutral jump to avoid my cr hp? See above. Jump at me? Cr mp is the easiest anti air I've ever had. Quit crying Myles and work on improving.

Hell, I've seen people anti air with buttons into specials, into another special, into a CA. Pick Urien and do 40% anti airs.

Not everyone comes equipped with an amazing AA like mika and birdie. And the high damage anti airs can be unreliable (I'm specifically thinking of alexs cr fp due to slow startup and uriens cr fp due to less than amazing hitboxes). A lot of the time, jab is simply more reliable on Alex (whom I play the most currently).

This is a crazy thought I've had lately and where better than TYM to mull it over. Jumps seem harder to react to than in 4. At first I thought it was this frame delay that everyone talked about. But... if you look at footage of 4 next to that of 5... do jumps seem more visually obvious in 4? Like.. based on the scope of vision and the placement of the health bars? Maybe I'm just slower than a year ago, but it seems that way.