Question - Jason Voorhees Why Does Jason Need Nerfs?

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

thats not what i mean, i mean slightly a bit longer, like to counter poke a -6 move you just quick counterpoke, on a -2 move you slightly wait then counter poke, and i dont mean seconds i mean wait like 3-5 frames then counterpoke. if you get me know. then you will successfully counter poke them.

lol man, seriously, in a real match this is hard AF to do.

2:42

''I'll just block his D1 till that armor break ends... ohh shit, he did his 9 frames mid knee into overhead that is just -2 on block... another d1... now he does a command grab...''

 

[Tweedy]

At -5, Sub Zero can F3 EX ice ball me in my jugular.

At -2, Sub Zero either backdashes or cries to Paulo.

STOP

Tell em @Eldriken

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Tremor, sub zero and Liu.

He sets up armour break and then just d1s. They don't have a poke fast enough to poke back and they can't armour because it gets broken. In the corner they can't back dash either.

Scrub Zero can only trade with reversal slide.

 

[CrazyFingers]

yeah but at the same time, if they have a 12-20 frame mid, they have no business doing a mid after a poke, do a coiunter poke, hell block and cross over, backdash so many options, i get the frustration, but there should be zero request for nerfs to something so fucking simple to counter. i dont even use Jason and hate the matchup, but i would never Nerf cuz something that easy to counter.

True, tho when D1 anti airs I vomit a bit xD

 

[CrazyFingers]

At -5, Sub Zero can F3 EX ice ball me in my jugular.

At -2, Sub Zero either backdashes or cries to Paulo.

STOP

Tell em @Eldriken

No but cry to Paulo tho, only good things comes from that...insert doge I cannot send because I'm on my phone

 

[God Confirm]

What are you talking about? Of course I've been d+1'd to death. I've also been cloned to death, hat spun to death, tanya'd to death, puggles'd to death, and every other good tactic in the game to death. I'm asking for the concrete evidence that this needs to go besides "well its not fair to my slightly shitier character."

you are comparing this to tanya? someone who was agreed to be the most ridiculously OP character in the game until she was nerfed? Puggles has been HEAVILY balanced too? hat spin got balanced AS WELL? SO WAS THE CLONE? If this is your argument it seems you just listed a bunch of shit that needed to be balanced, as your logic for why NOT to balance Jason's D1... and that logic seems kinda... bad.


If you (to anyone, just in general) think a 6f poke that is -2 on block is good game design in a game where some characters fastest button is literally 9f, then you really are the kinda of player who needs crutches and not the kinda player who should be handing out balance feedback LOL

 

[GAV]

Hey all! I'm back again, asking a question this time. I've heard a lot, and I mean A LOT of people talk about nerfing Jason with the upcoming patch and I'm just curious as to why? Yes he is very good, buffs were kind to him indeed. However, I ask those of you who think he needs nerfs to step up and tell me why. I'm not trying to call anyone out or start beef, I am truly curious as to why you guys think this way? Is it because of his solid buttons along with excellent tick throws? Or is it the buffs he has with Relentless and Unstoppable? Are these things too strong? I'd love to hear what you guys think!

Because...

 

[CrazyFingers]

you are comparing this to tanya? someone who was agreed to be the most ridiculously OP character in the game until she was nerfed? Puggles has been HEAVILY balanced too? hat spin got balanced AS WELL? SO WAS THE CLONE? If this is your argument it seems you just listed a bunch of shit that needed to be balanced, as your logic for why NOT to balance Jason's D1... that logic seems kinda... bad.


If you (to anyone, just in general) think a 6f poke that is -2 on block is good game design in a game where some characters fastest button is literally 9f, then you really are the kinda of player who needs crutches and not the kinda player who should be handing out balance feedback LOL

I literally don't care what happens to this button as long as it doesn't go above -5 or 6 (like Kotal) and stays 6f. Make it not -2, don't care. This is one of those things where to people who don't use it in the way you're describing it don't CARE what happens to it ya know? Just don't make it completely ass like most other "normalized" things.

 

[God Confirm]

I literally don't care what happens to this button as long as it doesn't go above -5 or 6 (like Kotal) and stays 6f. Make it not -2, don't care. This is one of those things where to people who don't use it in the way you're describing it don't CARE what happens to it ya know? Just don't make it completely ass like most other "normalized" things.

I absolutely agree with you

 

[juicepouch]

I think he could use a frame or 2 more negativity on d1 but I really don't think they need to touch armor breaking buff. If you revert that, what was the point of buffing Unstoppable in the 1st place?

 

[Raiderhorn]

Even as Unstoppable Jason can struggle against all of these characters:
-Gunslinger
-Imposter/Bone Shaper
-Stunt Double/A-List
-Hish-Qu-Ten
-Acidic/Tarkaten/(Konjurer?)
-Cutthroat
-Swarm Queen
-Shirai Ryu
-Piercing/Ravenous/Ethereal
-Demolition
-Dragon's Fire/Flame Fist
-Brawler/Hollywood
-Mystic

I could list more but the trend here is all of these characters can zone/control space really well, coupled with really good up close pressure of their own. Give Jason a projectile in Slasher? You take away his armor break. Give him armor break? You take away his projectile. And in Relentless Jason does have a teleport to get in but its suuuper unsafe and you also don't have that armor break OR projecticle. He can reverse controls but that's also super unsafe unless he spends the bar to make it safer. Once Jason gets in, yes, he's very strong. But trying to get in with no form of teleports or a means of counterzoning to some degree is a whole other ball park and takes much patience, practice, and reads.

 

[hkriderz]

MadeOfMetal and truefenix's arguments are probably the stupidest I've seen on TYM lmao

Comparing d1 and whiff recovery nerf to the tanya debacle?

You could lab his d1, but there is no lab. He either infinities you or you have to do some very suspect shit to get out. Even with 8 frame poke characters like Lao its still hard. Saltface bullied the shit out of me with it and it's not fun. There's absolutely no option of counterpoking with a string because you think its your turn. He can d1 away.

@Pan1cMode nerfs are exactly what Jason needs to get. No it will not "Tanya" or "Triborg" him. Jeez its like if a character is not as easy to play and broken like alien, or almost game-breaking like sonya, people will pitchfork you for asking for nerfs.

There will always be a top 3? yes there will. But we need a top 3 that is less of a pain to deal with, and not just sit back and accept that the top 5 are dumb. Jason is a perfectly balanced character. He just has 2 slightly annoying things that can be slightly exploited. Adjust them and he's fine.

 

[God Confirm]

Even as Unstoppable Jason can struggle against all of these characters:
-Gunslinger
-Imposter/Bone Shaper
-Mournful/Royal Storm
-Full Auto
-Stunt Double/A-List
-Summoner
-Hish-Qu-Ten
-Acidic/Tarkaten/(Konjurer?)
-Cutthroat/Cybernetic
-Swarm Queen
-Shirai Ryu
-Piercing/Ravenous/Ethereal
-Demolition
-Dragon's Fire/Flame Fist
-Deceptive
-Brawler/Hollywood
-Pretty Lady
-Mystic

I could list more but the trend here is all of these characters can zone/control space really well, coupled with really good up close pressure of their own. Give Jason a projectile in Slasher? You take away his armor break. Give him armor break? You take away his projectile. And in Relentless Jason does have a teleport to get in but its suuuper unsafe and you also don't have that armor break OR projecticle. He can reverse controls but that's also super unsafe unless he spends the bar to make it safer. Once Jason gets in, yes, he's very strong. But trying to get in with no form of teleports or a means of counterzoning to some degree is a whole other ball park and takes much patience, practice, and reads.

super suspect. e.g you got demolition and brawler as having that much better space control than jason that it means he struggles in the match up? You got nearly 2/3's the cast as struggling match ups for jason here. TBH this just looks like a list of characters that you as a player struggle against, learn to separate the two, not everything is the characters fault and its possible you arent as good as you think you are or even as good as your opponents

 

[Pan1cMode]

Even as Unstoppable Jason can struggle against all of these characters:
-Gunslinger
-Imposter/Bone Shaper
-Mournful/Royal Storm
-Full Auto
-Stunt Double/A-List
-Summoner
-Hish-Qu-Ten
-Acidic/Tarkaten/(Konjurer?)
-Cutthroat/Cybernetic
-Swarm Queen
-Shirai Ryu
-Piercing/Ravenous/Ethereal
-Demolition
-Dragon's Fire/Flame Fist
-Deceptive
-Brawler/Hollywood
-Pretty Lady
-Mystic

I could list more but the trend here is all of these characters can zone/control space really well, coupled with really good up close pressure of their own. Give Jason a projectile in Slasher? You take away his armor break. Give him armor break? You take away his projectile. And in Relentless Jason does have a teleport to get in but its suuuper unsafe and you also don't have that armor break OR projecticle. He can reverse controls but that's also super unsafe unless he spends the bar to make it safer. Once Jason gets in, yes, he's very strong. But trying to get in with no form of teleports or a means of counterzoning to some degree is a whole other ball park and takes much patience, practice, and reads.

Full auto no
Brawler/Hollywood no
Deceptive no
Summoner no

Honestly this list is super dodge. It seems like you don't know how to play half these matchups properly.

 

[Cooljaxx]

Jason.... Struggle?... What?....

 

[Cooljaxx]

Even as Unstoppable Jason can struggle against all of these characters:
-Gunslinger
-Imposter/Bone Shaper
-Mournful/Royal Storm
-Full Auto
-Stunt Double/A-List
-Summoner
-Hish-Qu-Ten
-Acidic/Tarkaten/(Konjurer?)
-Cutthroat/Cybernetic
-Swarm Queen
-Shirai Ryu
-Piercing/Ravenous/Ethereal
-Demolition
-Dragon's Fire/Flame Fist
-Deceptive
-Brawler/Hollywood
-Pretty Lady
-Mystic

I could list more but the trend here is all of these characters can zone/control space really well, coupled with really good up close pressure of their own. Give Jason a projectile in Slasher? You take away his armor break. Give him armor break? You take away his projectile. And in Relentless Jason does have a teleport to get in but its suuuper unsafe and you also don't have that armor break OR projecticle. He can reverse controls but that's also super unsafe unless he spends the bar to make it safer. Once Jason gets in, yes, he's very strong. But trying to get in with no form of teleports or a means of counterzoning to some degree is a whole other ball park and takes much patience, practice, and reads.

We all know damn well Jason does not struggle in all these Matchups.

 

[Raiderhorn]

super suspect. e.g you got demolition and brawler as having that much better space control than jason that it means he struggles in the match up? You got nearly 2/3's the cast as struggling match ups for jason here. TBH this just looks like a list of characters that you as a player struggle against, learn to separate the two, not everything is the characters fault and its possible you arent as good as you think you are or even as good as your opponents

Yes, player skill can be a factor. I can chalk some of them up to not playing cards right. I did say "can struggle".
I'm trying to highlight Jason's weakness that he can be outzoned/out-footsied despite the armor break and his d1 and yeah some characters listed should be taken off.

 

[Cooljaxx]

This threads already doomed. we already have the downplayer and the "Jason hasn't won a major so he isn't good" logic in here. Pce

 

[CompleteMadness]

Even as Unstoppable Jason can struggle against all of these characters:
-Gunslinger
-Imposter/Bone Shaper
-Stunt Double/A-List
-Hish-Qu-Ten
-Acidic/Tarkaten/(Konjurer?)
-Cutthroat
-Swarm Queen
-Shirai Ryu
-Piercing/Ravenous/Ethereal
-Demolition
-Dragon's Fire/Flame Fist
-Brawler/Hollywood
-Mystic

I could list more but the trend here is all of these characters can zone/control space really well, coupled with really good up close pressure of their own. Give Jason a projectile in Slasher? You take away his armor break. Give him armor break? You take away his projectile. And in Relentless Jason does have a teleport to get in but its suuuper unsafe and you also don't have that armor break OR projecticle. He can reverse controls but that's also super unsafe unless he spends the bar to make it safer. Once Jason gets in, yes, he's very strong. But trying to get in with no form of teleports or a means of counterzoning to some degree is a whole other ball park and takes much patience, practice, and reads.

Jason is actually one of the few characters that beats Mileena. I stopped reading after I seen you had her. Jason is a great counter pick for mileena.

 

[Tweedy]

How does Jason struggle vs Imposter?

Can't be you I know.

 

[KingHippo]

I have a question.

At what point can something be good?

We already have heard that the vortexes have gotta go, the safe 50/50's, all that, blah blah blah. So we now have Jason, who has a mildly strong command grab mixup and a good downpoke and now it's gotta go? Like at what point can something be annoying to fight against?

I see this problem constantly. Nobody wants to play the game, so they make up a reason why, and it's always contradictory. We want characters to be good, but they have to be good in a certain way or else they have to go. When will you guys make up your minds? At what point is it just bitching for the sake of bitching?

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

Jason is actually one of the few characters that beats Mileena. I stopped reading after I seen you had her. Jason is a great counter pick for mileena.

mileena beats unstoppable. no character in the game is a great counter pick for mileena

 

[Raiderhorn]

Sorry everyone, never did I say I think Jason shouldn't be nerfed.

Jason is actually one of the few characters that beats Mileena. I stopped reading after I seen you had her. Jason is a great counter pick for mileena.

Likewise Mileena is a character that can beat Jason

 

[Pan1cMode]

I have a question.

At what point can something be good?

We already have heard that the vortexes have gotta go, the safe 50/50's, all that, blah blah blah. So we now have Jason, who has a mildly strong command grab mixup and a good downpoke and now it's gotta go? Like at what point can something be annoying to fight against?

I see this problem constantly. Nobody wants to play the game, so they make up a reason why, and it's always contradictory. We want characters to be good, but they have to be good in a certain way or else they have to go. When will you guys make up your minds? At what point is it just bitching for the sake of bitching?

I don't mind something being good.

d1 is literally a block infinite on Liu and tremor. At that point it's not good, it's broke.

 

[CompleteMadness]

mileena beats unstoppable. no character in the game is a great counter pick for mileena

Nah jason unstoppable beats mileena. Even top players have said this.