Ryu Hayabusa
Filthy Casual
If they had given more unique strings to each variation we wouldn't be in this situation.
What more is needed off of a single variation, honestly? Just because grandmaster vastly over shadows cryo doesn't put the latter anywhere near the "lacking" category.Cryomancer appeared a couple times in I believe ESL season 2, but Cryomancer's whole game plan is just a high damaging 50/50. There's very little else to him.
Everything being said about what Raiden needs is legitimate and mutual amongst the majority of the high level players in and outside Raiden's community. Versus a scrub like you who's struggling with a potato variation, no executions 42% mid-screen one bar combo and above average 50/50's so he cries for batshit crazy buffs that would make the character even more ridiculous now who's having his period here?Says the guy who has his period about Raiden being "ruined" or whatever.
1. Execution doesn't determine how good a character isWhat more is needed off of a single variation, honestly? Just because grandmaster vastly over shadows cryo doesn't put the latter anywhere near the "lacking" category.
Everything being said about what Raiden needs is legitimate and mutual amongst the majority of the high level players in and outside Raiden's community. Versus a scrub like you who's struggling with a potato variation, no executions 42% mid-screen one bar combo and above average 50/50's so he cries for batshit crazy buffs that would make the character even more ridiculous now who's having his period here?
I mean Pig made ESL S1 finals and got top 3 or 4, 1 one of the 2, with Balanced Kenshi. does that mean Kenshi is a good character who needs nothing? hell no. So this one or two ESL weeklies as evidence for Cryo being good is really kind of stoopid.What more is needed off of a single variation, honestly? Just because grandmaster vastly over shadows cryo doesn't put the latter anywhere near the "lacking" category.
Everything being said about what Raiden needs is legitimate and mutual amongst the majority of the high level players in and outside Raiden's community. Versus a scrub like you who's struggling with a potato variation, no executions 42% mid-screen one bar combo and above average 50/50's so he cries for batshit crazy buffs that would make the character even more ridiculous now who's having his period here?
I'm failing to understand this point of yours... how is that if Grandmaster, a variation that isn't even S tier, that is quite good but far from perfect, with its good share of heavy counterpicks, according to your own words "vastly overshadows cryo" then according to your words too cryo isn't "anywhere near the "lacking" category"? Isn't being "vastly overshadowed" by a variation that isn't even in the highest tier of the game the definition of "lacking"?What more is needed off of a single variation, honestly? Just because grandmaster vastly over shadows cryo doesn't put the latter anywhere near the "lacking" category.
Everything being said about what Raiden needs is legitimate and mutual amongst the majority of the high level players in and outside Raiden's community. Versus a scrub like you who's struggling with a potato variation, no executions 42% mid-screen one bar combo and above average 50/50's so he cries for batshit crazy buffs that would make the character even more ridiculous now who's having his period here?
It got broken a lot in the Melbourne tournament.Personally I've never seen someone break ex Ice Hammer on reaction from a block string. Isn't it -4 with a good deal of push back? Adding 2 hits of armor on it seems a bit much.
I really like that stab DOT kinda like Outlaw Erron's Tarkatan Stab.Changes I want to see.
Normals:
F421+3 gets a MB version that does DOT over time (up to 8%) but can't be special cancelled on hit.
Specials:
Iceball becomes an ice dagger projectile (lile ct kano) that does 2% chip on block but is a high and freezes on hit. Full combo punishable as iceball currently is.
It's not about Cryomancer being AS good as Grandmaster, it's that it doesn't provide any uses for the areas where Grandmaster falls short.What more is needed off of a single variation, honestly? Just because grandmaster vastly over shadows cryo doesn't put the latter anywhere near the "lacking" category.
Everything being said about what Raiden needs is legitimate and mutual amongst the majority of the high level players in and outside Raiden's community. Versus a scrub like you who's struggling with a potato variation, no executions 42% mid-screen one bar combo and above average 50/50's so he cries for batshit crazy buffs that would make the character even more ridiculous now who's having his period here?
I don't think you realize how big of a gamble this would be....
- Ice Hammers can be run cancelled.
I perfer Cryocancer but hey that works tooYes our minus -13, 17 frame overhead that only nets significant damage in the corner or in trashomancer.
Though I don't know if I'd pick those changes. Air hammer ground pound wouldn't be one of my choices; it would be a good tool, but I feel it's counter to his momentum style. Honestly, I think air hammer is underrated in some matches. Yes, you lose your turn on block, but you can bridge the gap without getting blown up, so even if you lose your turn initially, that's a risk I'm willing to take in some matches. All that said, I agree with the philosophy behind your choices.111 last hit being an OH won't fix much... I mean, it makes sense with the animation and it would allow you to mix it with Slide, but that's not really Cryo's problem. If it happens it's a good thing but I wouldn't prioritize it.
Additional armor on hammer would help dealing with pressure but I don't think something like that will happen honestly. Not a priority either as EX Burst is still a good option against faster moves, it won't lead to as much damage but it's a tool.
IMO (and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record saying the same thing for months) Cryo's main problem is that it's a variation that is based on punishing... without tools to create punishing opportunities and a very linear, honest and predictable game.
Because variationless Sub-Zero overcompensates so much for GM having the klone with all of its utility and control, Cryo suffers a lot against characters with decent to good neutral and pressure (if good at both, it gets painful).
Main 2 things I'd like to see, so at least opponents need to respect him would be (if possible both, at least one):
- F122 last 2 hits (the sword ones) becoming a new string (F22 is available). Very simple change and they created new strings for characters like Kenshi recycling parts of existing strings, so it's perfectly viable.
With this Cryo gets a long range safe check/starter at a decent speed: SZs long range moves are on the second hit of his strings in general, making them really slow and not viable for neutral and footsies at all. It might not be on the level of some other characters in that department, but at least it would be something that the opponent needs to be aware of when approaching you.
- Air Hammer changes:
* Remove the armor breaking part. It only has a purpose in the corner, the reward for landing it isn't a big deal and there are more scenarios where you lose by using it. After your typical Hammer finisher in the corner NJP, NJK and even empty jump are all preferable options against someone that knows what he's doing so I couldn't care less about the armor breaking part because it hardly comes into play. I also want to tone the move down a bit in order to apply the other change.
* Make Air Hammer a full screen ground pound (unblockable full screen ground based attack) like other similar moves. With enough skill, instant air hammer would allow you to trick opponents and every now and then force a bad jump that you could punish with a slide o certain combos depending on the situation.
With this change, Air Hammer now becomes a part of Cryo's toolset rather than a gimmick filler move (something that a variation exclusive shouldn't be IMHO) with a completly different role and again, it helps with the "respect Cryo" department. With Air Hammer being so slow it isn't like it would be too powerful, but at least it would be a serviceable tool.
I think with both changes combined, Cryo still wouldn't be a top dog by a longshot, but at least he would be able to deal with some of his weaknesses and while pressure would still be problematic and you should keep your meter to get out of it, approaching Cryo to start that pressure wouldn't be such an easy cake anymore.
The up-hammer would be cool, though the with the hammer slam already, It feels less like a Thor thing and more like a King Dedede thing. (EDIT: which is not bad, lol)I'm sorry that I forgot to say that I agree with Cryo's having a sword in NJP. I thought, "Shall Sub Zero have a sword or a hammer for NJP? If he had a hammer, he would be like Thor."
BTW, if they had made a new animation, it would be that the F112 would have first a punch, then a sword, and finally a hammer to send the opponent into air. As a Kendo athlete, I would say that the sword doesn't give the impact to send the opponent in air. IMO, the sword cuts in all sides. The Hammer should do the trick to send the opponent in air. It's just physics logic.
I don't think he's garbage, but as a Sub-Zero specialist, I'm always hard pressed to pick him over Grandmaster. I can't think of one MU where Cryomancer and especially Unbreakable would be a better pick than the otherwise excellent Grandmaster. Even in Grandmaster's bad matchups. Cryo gets molly whopped in those matchups just as bad, if not worse because he loses the trapping ability of the corner. And believe me, Iv looked.Ice ball can be cancelled
@Gilbagz thinks he's good so maybe we should explore a bit more.
"physics logic" like not falling down when frozen,haha? And to give my 2 cents about SZ needing buffs is honestly only unbreakable comes to my mind, not having the impression cryomancer needs it so badly as the rest of the people here. Admittedly for the reason i never even think about SZ, as long as the release of the game never bothered about him, ever. Yet i voted on SZ on ed boon's poll just because i would love to see them buff unbreakable for it seems for me that's the only variation appealing to me. And something off topic; You guys think we'll get a KP3 or at least 1 more dlc char? I'm having little faith in it, thinking we'll only get a patch with character balances and that being IT for MKX. And you?I'm sorry that I forgot to say that I agree with Cryo's having a sword in NJP. I thought, "Shall Sub Zero have a sword or a hammer for NJP? If he had a hammer, he would be like Thor."
BTW, if they had made a new animation, it would be that the F112 would have first a punch, then a sword, and finally a hammer to send the opponent into air. As a Kendo athlete, I would say that the sword doesn't give the impact to send the opponent in air. IMO, the sword cuts in all sides. The Hammer should do the trick to send the opponent in air. It's just physics logic.
Give Cryomancer SZ standing 22 from mk9 and everything will be ok
Well in matchups where the clone is rendered useless. Maybe Ermac?I don't think he's garbage, but as a Sub-Zero specialist, I'm always hard pressed to pick him over Grandmaster. I can't think of one MU where Cryomancer and especially Unbreakable would be a better pick than the otherwise excellent Grandmaster. Even in Grandmaster's bad matchups. Cryo gets molly whopped in those matchups just as bad, if not worse because he loses the trapping ability of the corner. And believe me, Iv looked.
Maybe, but I think it is worth it slumming it in the neutral because you can rape him in the corner. Cryo is basically a "I do everything you do, but worse" version of MOS Ermac. And of course not even close to Spectral or Mystic. I think the both get 6-4d by Spectral or maybe 7-3 by Mystic, and MOS is 5-5 vs Grandmaster and Cryomancer loses to MOS 6-4 imo of course.Well in matchups where the clone is rendered useless. Maybe Ermac?