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General/Other - Sub-Zero CRYOMANCER CHANGES

Hello once again. As you all know, cryomancer and unbreakable subzero are lacking in the design department due to the grandmaster. Time to discuss some changes.

This is only for cryomancer so someone get started on one for unbreakable...

Changes:
-The last hit of 111 changed to an overhead
- mb hammer gets 2 hits of armor to make up for the slow start up with no push back if blocked...or increase the start up with more block disadvantage
-f122 changed to minus 6 or 7 on block
-f12 changed to plus 1 on block

Thats all i can think of. Let it begin
 

ando1184

Noob
Why not just make the mb version of hammer faster to begin with and make the regular version what the mb one is now?
 

Lokheit

Noob
Hello once again. As you all know, cryomancer and unbreakable subzero are lacking in the design department due to the grandmaster. Time to discuss some changes.

This is only for cryomancer so someone get started on one for unbreakable...

Changes:
-The last hit of 111 changed to an overhead
- mb hammer gets 2 hits of armor to make up for the slow start up with no push back if blocked...or increase the start up with more block disadvantage
-f122 changed to minus 6 or 7 on block
-f12 changed to plus 1 on block

Thats all i can think of. Let it begin
111 last hit being an OH won't fix much... I mean, it makes sense with the animation and it would allow you to mix it with Slide, but that's not really Cryo's problem. If it happens it's a good thing but I wouldn't prioritize it.

Additional armor on hammer would help dealing with pressure but I don't think something like that will happen honestly. Not a priority either as EX Burst is still a good option against faster moves, it won't lead to as much damage but it's a tool.

IMO (and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record saying the same thing for months) Cryo's main problem is that it's a variation that is based on punishing... without tools to create punishing opportunities and a very linear, honest and predictable game.

Because variationless Sub-Zero overcompensates so much for GM having the klone with all of its utility and control, Cryo suffers a lot against characters with decent to good neutral and pressure (if good at both, it gets painful).

Main 2 things I'd like to see, so at least opponents need to respect him would be (if possible both, at least one):

- F122 last 2 hits (the sword ones) becoming a new string (F22 is available). Very simple change and they created new strings for characters like Kenshi recycling parts of existing strings, so it's perfectly viable.

With this Cryo gets a long range safe check/starter at a decent speed: SZs long range moves are on the second hit of his strings in general, making them really slow and not viable for neutral and footsies at all. It might not be on the level of some other characters in that department, but at least it would be something that the opponent needs to be aware of when approaching you.

- Air Hammer changes:

* Remove the armor breaking part. It only has a purpose in the corner, the reward for landing it isn't a big deal and there are more scenarios where you lose by using it. After your typical Hammer finisher in the corner NJP, NJK and even empty jump are all preferable options against someone that knows what he's doing so I couldn't care less about the armor breaking part because it hardly comes into play. I also want to tone the move down a bit in order to apply the other change.

* Make Air Hammer a full screen ground pound (unblockable full screen ground based attack) like other similar moves. With enough skill, instant air hammer would allow you to trick opponents and every now and then force a bad jump that you could punish with a slide o certain combos depending on the situation.

With this change, Air Hammer now becomes a part of Cryo's toolset rather than a gimmick filler move (something that a variation exclusive shouldn't be IMHO) with a completly different role and again, it helps with the "respect Cryo" department. With Air Hammer being so slow it isn't like it would be too powerful, but at least it would be a serviceable tool.

I think with both changes combined, Cryo still wouldn't be a top dog by a longshot, but at least he would be able to deal with some of his weaknesses and while pressure would still be problematic and you should keep your meter to get out of it, approaching Cryo to start that pressure wouldn't be such an easy cake anymore.
 
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DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Safe 2-hit armored launcher boys pack it up. Only Goro is allowed to have that.

It's not like Sub is lacking in armor, EX-burst can still be combo'ed into F421+3 for decent damage.
 
If anything, the only buff y'all need is your strings to have better hitboxes so that you can combo female characters more consistently
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Yeah whatever I don't mean to downplay. It really is a great normal, but please don't bitch about it, it doesn't scratch the surface of what this game does.
 

Lokheit

Noob
If anything, the only buff y'all need is your strings to have better hitboxes so that you can combo female characters more consistently
This isn't about Grand Master, if there is a positive thing about Cryomancer is that he doesn't need to change combos against females (and even gain some midscreen).
 

Lokheit

Noob
Lmao the only reason these variations suck is because they dont have an ice clone lololol.
I know this is a joke but... it's exactly that, ice klone is the reason why the other 2 variations suck as variationless Sub-Zero is intentionally bad to compensate for the klone.

I'm all in for better "base package" SZ and worse klone next time to be honest.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
The only thing Cryomancer lacks is good players. This thread is beyond r e t a r d e d.
Cryomancer appeared a couple times in I believe ESL season 2, but Cryomancer's whole game plan is just a high damaging 50/50. There's very little else to him.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
As has been said, Cryo and Unbreakable mainly just need a good string for footsies. Perhaps also a faster "get off me" poke, as has been added to characters like Quan and Mileena.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Cryomancer appeared a couple times in I believe ESL season 2, but Cryomancer's whole game plan is just a high damaging 50/50. There's very little else to him.
It just shows how MKXL's meta is retarded, why use a character with a high damage unsafeish 50/50 when you can use a character with safe 50/50s that deal the same damage?
Characters like Kenjutsu and Cryomancer are not terrible in and of themselves, they're just obsolete.
 
It just shows how MKXL's meta is (soap bar in my mouth), why use a character with a high damage unsafeish 50/50 when you can use a character with safe 50/50s that deal the same damage?
Characters like Kenjutsu and Cryomancer are not terrible in and of themselves, they're just obsolete.
Exactly, Cutthroat Kano does exactly what cryo does, just better as far as I see it.