Current EVO Numbers For MKXL Release, Any Thoughts?

[Poshib]

This has to be the worst parade of scrub I've ever seen on this site.
If only my computer didn't die I wouldnt have to write in this tiny phone

You guys want to know why the numbers are low?

Because of you.

How many people posting this thread have:

A) Labbed a match up.
B) Traveled anywhere, local or major.
C) Gotten involved with the scene.
D) Found anything with your character.
E) Actually tried to get high level MU experience and leveled up.

First of all, I see a bunch of random people who joined in 2015 and have 11 posts telling us that the game is dead. Sorry guys, but online ranked is not the life of the game.

For all the people whinning about the patches: your capcom guys were ALWAYS gonna drop the game either way. They do it with every new game. Sometimes you get someone like Hector Sanchez convincing Fchamp to start some hype and they always bail because WE'RE NOT THEIR COMMUNITY. I know isn't that weird that being part of the community is actually what 90% of these offline tournaments are all about? Either way, just because JWong doesn't play the game, doesn't mean hundreds of people will stop playing. Does anyone here feel they shouldn't travel 2hrs to a major because JWong didn't enter for MK? Exactly. The patching business is a lame excuse for people who want to dedicate minimal effort and get competitive results, which is ridiculous (unless Chris G for some reason). With or without patches, the meta of a game is constantly changing.

Next point, to the people crying about it being "imbalanced". Surprise, it's not. Yes, there are a few characters that get away with murder, but let's be real, unless you're fighting a top level competitor (there are like 20 in the world) most match ups are perfectly winnable with knowledge and good fundamentals. There are no Lex Zods or Jades Kenshis. Theres no Cyrax get hit once you lose. There's no Batgirl or MMH. Your character has bad match ups, sure, thats the nature of fighting games and if you want to be competitive in ANY game you have to learn a few at a high level. That's fighting games. No, Alien doesn't run the game. Yes, there's tech against him for every character. Yes, most people here don't even know or can't fuzzy anything. The fact that most people are saying that there are all these "safe 50/50s makes me think I'm playing a different game or you guys don't know what a 50/50 actually is. There's no such thing as run in 50/50s. There's "you didn't react/poked/jumped out/played footsies" though. I do think there are a couple of issues, like Mileenas hitbox and such, but the game is not the broken piece of shit these randoms are making it up to be.

Seriously, for all the delusional people blaming the game I'm just gonna say this: in my more than 5 years of being here, I haven't seen you TYM crybaby in any top 16-32 of a major, or even top 50 in the challenger cup for xbox. If you can't even accomplish a little tiny bit of success while others do it consistently in 3 different games then maybe, just maybe, it's you, and you need to change your mindset.

This is what you guys need to do:

Support your local scene.
Support your regional scene.
Support the offline majors.
Travel, share a rented car so its cheap, get a room for 8 people, don't assume that you need money to travel, you don't, experience what actual competitive NRS games are, not sitting in an empty room playing rank and whinning on TYM, but meet the very tightly-knit offline community and be a part of what makes this whole thing great. If I only had TYM I'd left long, looong time ago. While I have the privilege to be able to have a job and be able to travel, it doesn't mean I didn't used to sit for 8hrs on a shady bus going to mexico city to play with @Under_The_Mayo and 15 scrubs on 2 CRTs for a 20 dollar pot bonus, or I didn't drive 9 hrs from Virginia because there was a dead body in the road coming back with Gandy from TCW, or 16 hr drive back in Zyphox's car of death that had no breaks coming back from Combo Breaker. IMO, you have to give some to get some and honestly I'd do every shitty trip again because it's absolutely worth it, not because the game but because the people. Of course I travelled to lose (Green Arrow? Who am I kidding he had like 15 7-3s) , who cares! And yes it's a shame that most of those people don't post here anymore.

So instead of posting idiot things and assuming the game is dead, how about you get involved and you experience the actual community (not whatever this is) by yourself. YOU, TYM poster, are the evo numbers that are missing.

Aaaayyy!!! Agreed 1000%! No wonder it's been so hard to improve in this game. I was starting to think everyone was on that dumb scrub mentality train. You have my upmost respect for this post. Folks don't know about them 8+ hr trips just to train and kick it IRL. Send me an inv on PSN. We need to play.

 

[Somea2V]

...except what they're asking for "don't overpatch" would mean don't go and get your telephone fixed in that awful analogy you just given.

I'm fine if people said "too many patches, either get your shit together or I'm done playing this game." Except, what they're saying is "too many patches, leave the game as it is," which is baffling.

I don't mean to be a dick but the example you gave really has nothing to do with anything.

You're ignoring the far more logical conclusion that some people have already realized, and likely crap on NRS as a studio because of it.

Overpatching is a bad thing, yes. But you say it's needed to fix broken nonsense. Why doesn't NRS do quality QA and not release a broken product, then? Iron Galaxy released a new season of content just a few months ago. The two patches that came out afterwards addressed a handful of bugs and barely affected game balance at all. NRS released a Kombat Pack a few months ago that introduced broken characters that they then nerfed hardcore less than a month later.

You want to know why people crap on overpatching? There you go. It isn't impossible to release a balanced product at launch. And yet, NRS doesn't and then continues to screw up balancing month after month after month within the first year of a game's life... which quickly becomes basically the only year in which support is given.

 

[Rude]

The notion that casual players opinions don’t matter because they don’t travel to tournaments is silly in all honesty. I’m a fan of basketball and been a fan all my life. I play the game casually, but when I watch the pros play as an observer I can acknowledge good/bad plays and what one team lacks in weakness and what strengths they have. Same goes for games I have an interest in (i.e MKX). MKX only rewards one play style which is all offensive base. All the characters considered top tier all have a similar play style ( rush down, 50/50's, jailing pressure, and so on). That could very much be the problem. There's no diversity in playing styles in MKX.

That's not true.

Watch Foxy's Mileena. It's mostly footsies and zoning/punishment, and he's rewarded for it.

Then there's Mystic Ermac, who uses push to control space, force mistakes, and punish.

There is plenty of diversity: You have grapplers (Sun God, Wrestler, Commando), strong zoners, vortex characters, trap-based characters like Konjurer, and pressure-based characters like Liu Kang and Kung Lao.

Let go of old narratives and open your eyes.

 

[Somea2V]

That's not true.

Watch Foxy's Mileena. It's mostly footsies and zoning/punishment, and he's rewarded for it.

Then there's Mystic Ermac, who uses push to control space, force mistakes, and punish.

There is plenty of diversity: You have grapplers (Sun God, Wrestler, Commando), strong zoners, vortex characters, trap-based characters like Konjurer, and pressure-based characters like Liu Kang and Kung Lao.

Let go of old narratives and open your eyes.

You know, you're argument might carry more weight if it wasn't delusional. How many of those diversity picks make it into a top 8? How many win?

Not to mention that Mileena probably doesn't count as a footsie character with that anti-air, high priority, advancing move that all her gameplay has come to rely on.

 

[Tweedy]

Why aren't Reptile and Jacqui better than Alien, Mileena and Takeda? Why are the strongest neutral characters the best, rather than characters with safe launching 50/50s?

ayye

 

[Rude]

You know, you're argument might carry more weight if it wasn't delusional. How many of those diversity picks make it into a top 8? How many win?

Not to mention that Mileena probably doesn't count as a footsie character with that anti-air, high priority, advancing move that all her gameplay has come to rely on.

She takes control of the neutral with B1. Its her primary footsie tool. She isn't just running up and tossing out a 50/50.

When people try to poke out at the wrong time, or mash armor, smart Mileena players punish them for it. Hell, Mileena walking back to make a poke whiff and then whiff punishing with B1 is a footsies 101 technique.

As far as, "Diversity picks" go, it's been said that zoning doesn't exist in MKX by people who are great at being wrong about things, and yet Michelangelo makes Top 8 with Summoner Quan zoning at Final Round.

Let the false narratives die. Educate yourself.

 

[Rude]

You know, you're argument might carry more weight if it wasn't delusional. How many of those diversity picks make it into a top 8? How many win?

Not to mention that Mileena probably doesn't count as a footsie character with that anti-air, high priority, advancing move that all her gameplay has come to rely on.

Also, using tourney results is fucking stupid. Anything can happen in a ft3.

No one takes that talking point seriously.

 

[Durtman]

This community isn't fun. Everyone just bitches all the time about everything. It's a really wack competitive scene that encourages no one to leave their house, especially when esl exists and the online is good.

 

[Somea2V]

She takes control of the neutral with B1. Its her primary footsie tool. She isn't just running up and tossing out a 50/50.

When people try to poke out at the wrong time, or mash armor, smart Mileena players punish them for it. Hell, Mileena walking back to make a poke whiff and then whiff punishing with B1 is a footsies 101 technique.

As far as, "Diversity picks" go, it's been said that zoning doesn't exist in MKX by people who are great at being wrong about things, and yet Michelangelo makes Top 8 with Summoner Quan zoning at Final Round.

Let the false narratives die. Educate yourself.

There's playing footsies and then there's dominating the neutral with an above board tool. B1 is an insanely powerful tool now that has reduced much of Mileena's gameplay to being centered around it, whether you're actually playing the neutral game or just abusing a move with strong reach, coverage and priority that leaves your hurtbox hanging back.

And sure, Michelangelo does do great at zoning for the fraction of gameplay he gets to do it. But then someone closes distance and all those powerful zoning tools just get reprioritized as powerful offensive tools. It's like every character's primary strategy is get in and raise hell with some tools being useful for other things. The characters that don't get to use this strategy are the ones we rarely see anymore at high level.

Also, using tourney results is fucking stupid. Anything can happen in a ft3.

No one takes that talking point seriously.

And it shouldn't be taken seriously for most things. But when we're talking about the meta of the game and what works best, how does high level, fast-paced play with no margin for errors not qualify as a litmus test? That is actually one of the few cases where it isn't moronic.

 

[Tom Brady]

Normally there is a drop of about 200 players from year 1 to year 2 which is less than 50%. This time its a drop of 900 which is over 70%. MKX had more drops then number of total number of entrants in the second year at EVO for IGAU and MK9 combined. Its very disappointing to see, I was hoping for at least 700 entrants.

 

[roosTakk]

Its because the game isnt any fun.

 

[Evil Canadian]

This community isn't fun. Everyone just bitches all the time about everything. It's a really wack competitive scene that encourages no one to leave their house, especially when esl exists and the online is good.

Yeah, time to cripple the online to up the tournament numbers

wait what

 

[MK_Al]

Some say if your new car has some issues you should wait and see if there turn out to be even more before fixing it. Others say you should fix them immediately. But some say, a new car should not have any problems at all. While I understand that new games will always have issues, it is obvious to me that NRS puts a lot of work and creativity into the overall game to atract (for the most part) new as well as casual players and less capacity into developing the fundamentally best and most balanced fg.
If you are a casual fifa player like i am you probably understand what i am talking about. When playing fifa i want the stadium atmosphere, i wan't great looking goals, i want lots of teams, i want cool tricks, but i hardly care about the fact that barcelona is op compared to other teams (do you us guys even play soccer games? lol).
The same way MKX delivers 100% when it comes to storry, cinematics, char diversersity and so on.
But as a fg player i expect solid game mechanics and good overall balance; both where questionable from the start. I only want fancy and creative stuff if it is really well thought, and not just for the sake of having something new.
A char that can fly may be "cool" to some, but when 50% of the characters have no good answer to that mechanik i'd rather have it not in the game. The variation system is neat if it makes sense from a gameplay perspective. Now inj2 is on the horizon and unfortunately instead of developing the variation idea into something great they seem to give us something completely new with those power ups - an idea that i haven't seen in any other fg and nobody knows what this will mean in terms of balance.
From a company point of view I fully understand the decision to focus on the said new and casual players, because the fg community will not pay their rents. But if you neglect the fg player then don't be suprised if evo can't make more than 400 entrants.
I hope future developments will be less fancy and instead cater the dedicated fg player a tad more than this title.

 

[UltraDavid]

I too feel this whole "we quit cause over patching" is the biggest horse shit ever

Those people were gonna quit either way after 2-3 months. The patches just served as an easy way out for them

I'd like to discuss this on stream w anyone who felt they had to "quit" due to over patching

happy to talk about it, just give me a buzz when you want to. i personally know quite a few people who quit mk (and injustice and mk9) because of the frequent and haphazard patching schedule. personally i stopped playing mk9 after a while even though i really liked it because i didn't have time to keep relearning, and i quit injustice between its first evo and the final patch because i didn't want to go through that again. for people who want to play more than one fighting game, having to relearn all the time is pretty frustrating.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Some say if your new car has some issues you should wait and see if there turn out to be even more before fixing it. Others say you should fix them immediately. But some say, a new car should not have any problems at all. While I understand that new games will always have issues, it is obvious to me that NRS puts a lot of work and creativity into the overall game to atract (for the most part) new as well as casual players and less capacity into developing the fundamentally best and most balanced fg.
If you are a casual fifa player like i am you probably understand what i am talking about. When playing fifa i want the stadium atmosphere, i wan't great looking goals, i want lots of teams, i want cool tricks, but i hardly care about the fact that barcelona is op compared to other teams (do you us guys even play soccer games? lol).
The same way MKX delivers 100% when it comes to storry, cinematics, char diversersity and so on.
But as a fg player i expect solid game mechanics and good overall balance; both where questionable from the start. I only want fancy and creative stuff if it is really well thought, and not just for the sake of having something new.
A char that can fly may be "cool" to some, but when 50% of the characters have no good answer to that mechanik i'd rather have it not in the game. The variation system is neat if it makes sense from a gameplay perspective. Now inj2 is on the horizon and unfortunately instead of developing the variation idea into something great they seem to give us something completely new with those power ups - an idea that i haven't seen in any other fg and nobody knows what this will mean in terms of balance.
From a company point of view I fully understand the decision to focus on the said new and casual players, because the fg community will not pay their rents. But if you neglect the fg player then don't be suprised if evo can't make more than 400 entrants.
I hope future developments will be less fancy and instead cater the dedicated fg player a tad more than this title.

what if it was a truck tho

 

[shura30]

having to relearn all the time is pretty frustrating.

yeah please stream something

this must be the second meme excuse after 'too many patches'

which characters in mkxl have been completely redesigned so anyone had to learn how to play them all over again?
they mostly fixed frames and stupid stuff which shouldn't have been there in the first place:

bat in trance lol,
guaranteed stuff after a ex move lol,
safe 6 frames launchers lol)

it's not like they gave gun cancels to cassie or ice clone to takeda

if something, we might agree to that one dude that said they patched tanya just to costume swap it into alien as soon as kp2 landed
that would be an interesting subject with many different approaches

online players and wannabe-tournament-players relied on broken meta and coin toss to increase their ranked victories
log online, there's people a few short of 10 thousand matches that clearly still don't know what happens on screen while we see a decent variety of characters placing high at majors

statements like these are just giving voice to that (sadly high) number of players that look for an excuse to shit on the game's reputation just because they want to keep sucking at it while crying because their 50% meterless dial-a-combo is not working anymore

 

[UltraDavid]

yeah please stream something

this must be the second meme excuse after 'too many patches'

which characters in mkxl have been completely redesigned so anyone had to learn how to play them all over again?
they mostly fixed frames and stupid stuff which shouldn't have been there in the first place:

bat in trance lol,
guaranteed stuff after a ex move lol,
safe 6 frames launchers lol)

it's not like they gave gun cancels to cassie or ice clone to takeda

if something, we might agree to that one dude that said they patched tanya just to costume swap it into alien as soon as kp2 landed
that would be an interesting subject with many different approaches

online players and wannabe-tournament-players relied on broken meta and coin toss to increase their ranked victories
log online, there's people a few short of 10 thousand matches that clearly still don't know what happens on screen while we see a decent variety of characters placing high at majors

statements like these are just giving voice to that (sadly high) number of players that look for an excuse to shit on the game's reputation just because they want to keep sucking at it while crying because their 50% meterless dial-a-combo is not working anymore

many players, me included, like learning games in depth. i'm not sure how deeply you get into these things, but i want to know for example that ex hat was plus 27 and that cassie's flipkick was 6f startup. now i think both of those are different and i think ex hat is like barely plus or something? i don't know. in the meantime 2 more games i really like came out and i have to budget my time to either learning them or relearning mkx, it's difficult for me to do both. it's the same for the players i know who stopped playing because of the frequency of patches. they're people who enjoy going very in depth, and if the developer makes that difficult, they lose interest or can't keep up while also having jobs and playing other games.

i'm still playing mkx because i really like it, but i just had to accept that i couldn't know it in as close detail as i want until the changes stopped. before ceo i'm going to go through the whole last change lists and make sure i know everything again, but that's time that's going to come out of my law practice or my streaming schedule or my time with friends and family, and that's not easy.

 

[xxE.Txx]

Casuals don't go to tournaments.

You honestly think casuals don't go to tournaments? I understand if you mean small tournaments where its less likely, but even then there is a reason spectator fee's became a thing. Hell evo is the one example where someone can use as proof that casuals will go to a tournament.

 

[haketh]

Casuals don't go to tournaments.

You'd be surprised

And I can't deal with people actually calling Ultradavid just a Capcom guy lmao.

 

[shura30]

many players, me included, like learning games in depth.

from this page:
http://community.wbgames.com/t5/Latest-Updates/bg-p/UpdateBlog

this is the list of patches and hotfixes up to the latest one
14 entries, 4 of which are hotfix later made stick into a patch, a few out just to fix bugs (ie cassie's rocket into ice clone) or damage scaling

there's 6 game and character changing patches and all are balance fixes

Spoiler

4/18 patch-- Gameplay notes
4/21 - 4/29 patch -- Patch Notes (PS4 US/World) (XBOX ONE)
Patch Notes PS4 5-14-15 XBOX ONE 5-20-15
Hotfix 5-20-15
Hotfix 5-20-15
Hotfix 6-1-15
Patch notes XboxOne and PS4 6-23-15
Patch Notes 7-2-15 PS4 SCEA (Xbox One/SCEE coming soon)
Patch Notes 8-31-2015
9/1 Post patch hotfix (PC coming soon)
Patch notes 9-21-2015
MKXL Patch notes 3-1-2016
HOTFIX 3-8-16
Patch Notes 3-29-16

but let me try and pick your brain a little:

but i want to know for example that ex hat was plus 27 and that cassie's flipkick was 6f startup. now i think both of those are different and i think ex hat is like barely plus or something? i don't know. in the meantime 2 more games i really like came out and i have to budget my time to either learning them or relearning mkx, it's difficult for me to do both.

playing a fighting game competitively goes a little more in depth than just remembering frames (which you can easily access in game at any time or from the incredible fan made projects with phone apps)
I believe your main concern in playing mkx and the other 2 games you like should be to stay up to date with the meta, lab unknown matchups and cover your weaknesses as a player
yes, in addition you should also adjust to balance changes and you find it a waste of time

i'm still playing mkx because i really like it, but i just had to accept that i couldn't know it in as close detail as i want until the changes stopped.

patch changes are just a few lines that can be read anytime anywhere
but just look data in hand at the frequency of those big patches and please say to me that 3 or 6 months is a too little of a window to adjust accordingly and keep up with other games or life. You called this 're-learning'
the last patch came out a month after kp2 dropped, was this too late because long term or muscle memory have the old notes embedded?
you also want for your favorite football team to not change roster every year because you find it hard to remember which one is the pitcher or the shortstop?

you also want to tell me that is that much different from what happened from sf4 from vanilla to super or ultra?
we might argue of the window of the lifespan of both games but did infiltration or tokido dropped the game or did complain when they touched akuma's vortex?

i'm not sure how deeply you get into these things

I don't do it like a professional tournament player but I try and practice what I preach in light of the fact hours spent playing a fighting game are better spent playing how it's supposed to be played despite the result

if you look at my posting history, you'll find I was pretty mad at Cassie's exflip armor removal
I can admit that was the casual player talking, the smart player in me took his time to realize that was just a panic button and an unfair tool to the game meta.
Went into a down phase then eventually moved up actually getting good to the point I laugh if I think on how I used to play.

Also, Sonicfox had pretty much all of his roster nerfed, you still see him repping Cassie and Erron on stream and on the big stage. Might not be the best example but he also plays and places consistently high in other games as well.

 

[Rude]

There's playing footsies and then there's dominating the neutral with an above board tool. B1 is an insanely powerful tool now that has reduced much of Mileena's gameplay to being centered around it, whether you're actually playing the neutral game or just abusing a move with strong reach, coverage and priority that leaves your hurtbox hanging back.

And sure, Michelangelo does do great at zoning for the fraction of gameplay he gets to do it. But then someone closes distance and all those powerful zoning tools just get reprioritized as powerful offensive tools. It's like every character's primary strategy is get in and raise hell with some tools being useful for other things. The characters that don't get to use this strategy are the ones we rarely see anymore at high level.



And it shouldn't be taken seriously for most things. But when we're talking about the meta of the game and what works best, how does high level, fast-paced play with no margin for errors not qualify as a litmus test? That is actually one of the few cases where it isn't moronic.

You can't help the hopeless.

 

[Somea2V]

You can't help the hopeless.

Well, you were bound to be right about something. Law of averages and all.

 

[SewerRat]

Exactly. Instead of having a community with the stigma of leaving games quickly, why not just have the stigma of playing both NRS titles at the same time. Especially since both will have fanatastic net codes now.

sure but the game's lifespan doesn't allow people to learn and git gud
faster learning players and those who actually have a chance at attending offline sessions jump in and win everything, as soon as the others try to catch up the game dies because of the new one
you don't even get to the point where you want to improve yomi or your gameplan
think of someone that wants his revenge on the next major, bam, the game will not be there anymore


this gets more stupid in light of the new netcode
I believe a decent amount of players became better by simply having this incredible new tool at their own convenience

look at esl (at least eu side), new strong players every week and mostly from a pool of people playing online exclusively

 

[Harlequin969]

Well Street Fighters always huge, same with Smash. Revelator just came out so GGs gonna be big. Pokken's the hot thing right now. But lower than Marvel, damn.

 

[SewerRat]

Legit. Also being good may not always just mean fundamentals. It may mean how well you know the match up? For example are you allowing Aaron Black to do his Sand Grenade combos without interupting them? Are you blocking high attacks? This game requires a lot to be "good" if you want to beat cheap characters.

I think this is also something to consider. A lot of people just aren't happy with this game. I know I've been upset with it a few times. There are just so many different things with or about this game that people get upset about. Things get patched, NRS forgot to fix a problem, or even patched the wrong thing altogether. New characters are announced, people aren't happy with the character choices. This character has X offense, it's too OP. This character has Y fundamentals, they're too weak. This character has Z game-breaking strategy or bug. The netcode isn't good enough. PC got screwed. Etc etc. Whatever it may be, I feel like in general I would RARELY see a thread that didn't involve people berating this game in some way like comparing characters, comparing games, comparing each other..
A big take towards a more relaxed attitude would help a game live longer.