Current EVO Numbers For MKXL Release, Any Thoughts?

[Rude]

Man, what a problem to have.

"Guys, the developer is trying to improve and support the game too much."

Especially when you consider all the old MK9 heads who wanted, "one more patch." You can't have it both ways.

Also, most of the Capcom guys' central argument for being against patching was the talk that they would have to "start over," which roughly translates to, "I can't treat this game as my side piece and do well without staying current, it's the developer's fault."

Baffling nonsense.

 

[War_Machine_27]

Sources please.

idk how to search for old tweets but I remember reading specific tweets from Balrog and Fchamp that said something along the lines of "it's frustrating trying to play a game when it gets patched frequently". As for Justin and Sabin, they were on the MKX train for a good bit of time and then left, notably Justin seemed to stop playing when Raiden got patched one too many times.

 

[War_Machine_27]

Man, what a problem to have.

"Guys, the developer is trying to improve and support the game too much."

Especially when you consider all the old MK9 heads who wanted, "one more patch." You can't have it both ways.

Also, most of the Capcom guys' central argument for being against patching was the talk that they would have to "start over," which roughly translates to, "I can't treat this game as my side piece and do well without staying current, it's the developer's fault."

Baffling nonsense.

This I can agree with to an extent. Some players were never going to have this as their main game but the NRS way of release and then patch immediately certainly didn't help

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Lol the September version of MKX was so much better than the April version, the same way MKXL is better than that. Just stop that shit. All you guys complaining that it is patched way too much would still complain just as much if Summoner Quan or Thunder God Raiden was still the way he was. Takeda, Goro, Shinnok, Jacqui just to name a few were all shit as hell at launch. Would you really want that to have stayed around? Some would argue(me included) that Takeda was over buffed. Not all of the changes were the greatest, but patches do overwhelmingly help NRS games.

 

[Tony at Home]

idk how to search for old tweets but I remember reading specific tweets from Balrog and Fchamp that said something along the lines of "it's frustrating trying to play a game when it gets patched frequently". As for Justin and Sabin, they were on the MKX train for a good bit of time and then left, notably Justin seemed to stop playing when Raiden got patched one too many times.

I will trust you are remembering the tweets correctly. But those do not indicate they quit the game for that reason at all.

It's a pretty big inference to say Wong left because of patching since it coincided with Raiden nerfs, rather than the pretty obvious case of it coinciding with Street Fighter V's release.

 

[dribirut]

It is impossible to maintain tourney numbers of nrs continues to drastically change the core mechanics each time it realeasss a new game. when injustice came out, a large core of the competitive scene from mk9 was lost because of the change of mechanics. The same thing happened with mkx where a large core of the competitive scene from injustice and mk9 quit as well. There needs to be consistency over a large period of time to develop a competitive scene. Games like marvel/sf/ and even smash have been around for a while and although many things have changed game to game, their core mechanics have remained intact. This is what has allowed them to create such consistent tournament numbers.

Patching has absolutely nothing to do with it or very little

 

[The PantyChrist]

For me and maybe others it's not the frequency of the patches, this is something you should be used to now as an nrs player, but rather the quality of the patches and balance decisions.
Obviously changes will need to be made but there should be some thought and a long term plan for changes that need to be made. If you want to majorly buff a character maybe make a few small nerfs too so they don't become a problem for some of the cast. Likewise if you're gonna nerf a character give them a few buffs in some areas.
Kung Lao for example was made a monster early on in Tempest and was slowly nerfed throughout the rest of the games tournament life without him getting much back, and then in MKXL took some universal needs to his other variations in the j2, and meter build and throw tech window being widened.
Meanwhile characters like Takeda and Mileena shoot way up the tier list for seemingly no reason. Not that I have a problem with this, it's nice to see low tiers being able to finally compete, It just doesn't make sense to me to replace top tier with other top tier

 

[War_Machine_27]

I will trust you are remembering the tweets correctly. But those do not indicate they quit the game for that reason at all.

It's a pretty big inference to say Wong left because of patching since it coincided with Raiden nerfs, rather than the pretty obvious case of it coinciding with Street Fighter V's release.

SF barely came out in February. Pretty sure Justin stopped playing way before that. Anyways I'm just playing devils advocate, none of the patches have negatively impacted my characters (Kenshi and Kitana) and I do appreciate the patches, I'm just saying yeah it can drive off people who want continuity among the characters they play.

 

[Perdition]

It might be because constant balance patches turn people off

This is the fact for me. Everytime I considered competing in this game, there was a new patch. And NRS patches are not regular patches, they are MAJOR game changers. Why spend money on travelling, hotels, and whatever for a game that has zero stability and always has a few characters that are broken(some even patched into broken characters, LOL NRS)?

MKX deserves a decline considering how NRS played this release out. Sure they supported the game more than others...but I will not give them too much credit for doing what they were supposed to in the modern game market.

 

[coolwhip]

The analogy was awesome
These players aren't saying to never patch the game.
A working phone is pretty much a necessity nowadays, so not getting it fixed isn't an option, so instead of wasting money on a constantly broken phone you'd just buy a different one.
Ignoring the multiple patches isn't an option, and even after the patches come, there's still things in the game these players don't like so the patches seem more like an unnecessary annoyance. That's how "overpatching" and "this game is broken" can both be things that turn someone off from the game.

If NRS did open betas to better test for bugs and patched like 2 times a year these players might stick around.

Except again, the Capcom community's narrative is they like the game when it's released, and they want NRS to hold off on the patching. So from they're perspective, they're implying that the "phone" is working fine, at least for the first 6 months, before an update is due. Which is ridiculous.

 

[The PantyChrist]

Some of the hitboxes in this game are just straight up dumb. they don't make sense.
Also the 50/50s make the game not fun. It's one thing with a character like LIu where the low is full combo and the oh is like 7-10% and an hkd. It's like a conditioning tool but when both options lead to full combo it's not fun or interesting to me.

 

[Wetdoba]

Maybe the people at NRS should learn how to play their own fucking games, that is the issue here. They have no idea how their game is going to play so they dont even know how to balance shit in the first place so they are forced to patch it. Then since they still dont know how their game plays they end up patching the wrong shit, having to repatch other shit and so on. Capcom doesnt patch as often because they just dont have to, they understand how their game will play at release so its more balanced from the start so they can get away with letting it all play out for longer.

It also doesnt help that they do the whole "we never make the same game twice" bs either because all it means is they have to start over with a new formula that they have no idea how it works because all the base mechanics are different (mk9 vs mkx). Hopefully I2 will play the same as I1 so they actually have the chance to improve upon the formula they already have instead of start over. NRS keeps trying to re invent the wheel and ending up with a fucking square at release when all they had to do was take the wheels from the last game and smooth them out.

 

[villainous monk]

Esl has played a major part of the drop I would say. But the numbers suggest that it drops regardless of any other events taking numbers from evo.

Personally what @Pig Of The Hut has said and others like minded in a way is what I aslo feel as well.

I ask myself this. If I had the means (which I do) would I go spend money to compete at evo, summer jam or somewhere else. No experiencing the climate and great time I would have. Or stay home and compeate from my own home where I'll won't spend 0.

Aslo maybe nrs is partly to blame as well because of the patches too. I mean they tried to make the game better but if the numbers are supposed reflect other factors besides the comparisons of last year like availability or if the game is more enjoyable to compeate in then I would say look at ESL.

 

[Eddy Wang]

What NRS needs is to start establishing ground rules in their games, and there is a line when codding characters that should not be crossed, inside every general gameplay system a character should have strength and weakness, not just strenghs and barely any weakness.

NRS also needs to stop releasing DLC characters with exclusive mechanics the cast doesn't seem to be able to handle either because it wasn't well though out, the invincible teleport from tanya which was built in with the whole character in mind that when nerfed afterwards it crippled all her other variations in general. Or because someone though it would be cool it doesn't mean it would be balanced, i'm looking at your Drunken Master Bo' Rai Cho.

Relying only on armor as defensive maneuver is getting tiresome as well, in MKX was practically an answer to most things because backdashing couldn't do its job for the stamina cost, some walkspeeds vs advancing strings or jabbing people out of the air vs kotal's, Sonya's Cassie's jump attacks. Kung Jin pressing J2 very earlier airbone and hitting someone crouching from the back while he is in front. Repetitive Corner Carrying and Knockdown game, massive low profiling that is mashable, etc etc.

No wonder and actually sad seeing MKX after the huge entrants it had last year it goes into disappointing numbers like this, and some people are making themselves believe saying "the game is not that bad" come on really?

 

[Slymind]

Man, what a problem to have.

"Guys, the developer is trying to improve and support the game too much."

Especially when you consider all the old MK9 heads who wanted, "one more patch." You can't have it both ways.

Also, most of the Capcom guys' central argument for being against patching was the talk that they would have to "start over," which roughly translates to, "I can't treat this game as my side piece and do well without staying current, it's the developer's fault."

Baffling nonsense.

Exactly, MK series is still relatively new to the mainstream FGC scene, it's improving with each game, what most likely hurt this game was the netcode that wasn't good out of the gate, if it can at least maintain the currents numbers in the years to come it will be good enough imo.

 

[Colest]

Not surprised. Outside of ESL, MKXL is swirling with negativity whether its from the players who play it, or NRS inability to balance characters properly and the PC debacle.

Im not trying to be a dick, but I figured most people here would be happy with the low numbers, cause the turnout could be a way to show NRS that they're doing something wrong with their games. They literally cant pay (pot bonus) players to keep playing.

It's a catch 22: low numbers will reinforce their mindset of supporting a game after a year not being worth it and high numbers will reinforce their patching and balance mindset.

That being said, something that seems to not be mentioned with the NRS cycle of 1 year lifespan games is that they are likely contractually obligated to only sink X amount of time into a title and crank out a game every Y number of years.

What really chaps my ass is just how terribly Tyler Lansdown is doing his job. What is he actually relaying to the community? I ask because the last time I've seen anything from him that wasn't marketing related was when three threads had to be made to get a confirmation that they were aborting the PC version. Not likely his fault per say since it's forboden these says for a company to acknowledge or mention ANY bad news but what the fuck is the point of his job? Is it really just do the bimonthly stream and give the interviews Ed doesn't feel like doing?

 

[aldazo]

For me and maybe others it's not the frequency of the patches, this is something you should be used to now as an nrs player, but rather the quality of the patches and balance decisions.

So simple yet nobody got it. Thank you.

 

[aldazo]

Maybe the people at NRS should learn how to play their own fucking games, that is the issue here.

I think Mike Z pointed this out long time ago...well said.

 

[aldazo]

Maybe the people at NRS should learn how to play their own fucking games, that is the issue here. They have no idea how their game is going to play so they dont even know how to balance shit in the first place so they are forced to patch it. Then since they still dont know how their game plays they end up patching the wrong shit, having to repatch other shit and so on. Capcom doesnt patch as often because they just dont have to, they understand how their game will play at release so its more balanced from the start so they can get away with letting it all play out for longer.

It also doesnt help that they do the whole "we never make the same game twice" bs either because all it means is they have to start over with a new formula that they have no idea how it works because all the base mechanics are different (mk9 vs mkx)...NRS keeps trying to re invent the wheel and ending up with a fucking square at release when all they had to do was take the wheels from the last game and smooth them out.

I want to print and frame this and send it to NRS bosses at WB.

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

NRS keeps trying to re invent the wheel and ending up with a fucking square at release when all they had to do was take the wheels from the last game and smooth them out.

That's so true. Why not just improve on things you know work.

 

[trufenix]

It's not a myth and I bet it does have a large impact. There's a few fgc figureheads who stopped playing injustice and MK because of the frequent patching like PR Balrog, Justin Wong, Fchamp, Sabin, etc. Those are just the big names who stopped competing in NRS titles so surely there's countless less well known players who have stopped playing because of the patching too.

900 people didn't drop the game in a year because it got patched.

 

[bdizzle2700]

For me and maybe others it's not the frequency of the patches, this is something you should be used to now as an nrs player, but rather the quality of the patches and balance decisions.
Obviously changes will need to be made but there should be some thought and a long term plan for changes that need to be made. If you want to majorly buff a character maybe make a few small nerfs too so they don't become a problem for some of the cast. Likewise if you're gonna nerf a character give them a few buffs in some areas.
Kung Lao for example was made a monster early on in Tempest and was slowly nerfed throughout the rest of the games tournament life without him getting much back, and then in MKXL took some universal needs to his other variations in the j2, and meter build and throw tech window being widened.
Meanwhile characters like Takeda and Mileena shoot way up the tier list for seemingly no reason. Not that I have a problem with this, it's nice to see low tiers being able to finally compete, It just doesn't make sense to me to replace top tier with other top tier

With this i agree 100% if your gunna take some away, give them something to compensate. Or make the drama of how much they take out. If its +14 on block(random example) dont make it now-5 for no reason. Make it +5 or if you make it -5 give them something else. Some of these decisions are silly

 

[KingHippo]

While I do think that aside from one or two of the patches, the actual changes were nothing that big, I do think people approach the "people who don't play because of patches" side a little too harshly.

If there's one thing I've learned, numbers are usually inflated when it comes to entering tournaments. There are probably 1500 or less of the SFV entrants that actually want to do good and get out of pools, and then the rest are probably people who signed up because it's the biggest ever Evo tournament and just want to have fun then go to Vegas. The reason they do that is because SF is fairly simple and hasn't really changed its formula all that much to where people feel (again, not actually will) that they have a shot.

With NRS games, because the only real similarity is a reliance on strings instead of singular normals, it's much harder for someone who is an experienced MK9 player, for example, to just enter Injustice or MKXL for the heck of it. It's also hard for non diehards to stay on top of a metagame that is shifting and changing due to reasons both legitimate and sort of forced with what gets changed. Those two factors mean that we don't get the runoff that a game like SF or GG or Smash will have, hence the low numbers.

It's a massive drop, but also considering MKXL is a legitimate AAA title that will probably end up being one of the best selling fighting games of all time, then I can see how the number got so big in the first place. However, NRS games are not friendly on the tourney circuit to diehards. Plain and simple. Some people think this is a good thing, some think it's a bad thing. Regardless of what you think, that's why the numbers are what they are.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

One of the issues is the balance of the game - a lot of 50/50s combo starters (some of them are safe ), a lot of hit/hurt boxes issues, very weak anti-airs, weak zoning, most healing moves sucks, weak footsies, most parries and reflectors sucks...

 

[Take$$$]

I know a lot of people, myself included, canceled our EVO plans for various reasons. I'm going to be too busy after CEO, but I also wouldn't go if I could since I don't like its location and the way it's set up this year.